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OfflineEightball
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Truffle Production Team
    #3990440 - 03/30/05 01:28 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Truffles are the most valuable mushroom costing upwards of $1000-$3000 per lb (black truffles). This is due to very stone-age/inefficient, low yeilding, slow producing methods of planting orchards of trees (oak) with rootsystems inoculated with the truffle fungus. the truffles have a symbiotic (i would argue they are more parasitic) relationship with the roots, taking sugars from them. Im sure they do somehting bennificial for the roots too but nothing 100% nessesary for the trees survival/health.

"Typical yields [of truffles] in Europe range between 25 and 35 pounds per acre each year, but as methods improve many more farms are achieving yields in excess of 100 pounds per acre."

takes around 3 years minimum before a newly planted inoculated tree can have truffles being produced around it.

So currently a couple of orchards in the US exist + france and europe in general. This causes prices to be so high simply because of supply/demand and of course iron chef bastards burning through kilos of em.

Interested in altering world markets? Establishing a multi-billion $ 'synthetic-truffle' industry appeal to you? We NEED to find a substrate which isnt some bloody tree which can support the truffle growth so we can produce in very controled enviroments. This way we can have a very high density of truffles being produced per volume of 'warehouse' space.

Nondisclosure may be an important thing to consider down the road when this project is underway because the shroomery or whoever working on the project should have first dibs off making bank on the tek, not some well-funded person who comes across our compiled data/techniques.

Currently a source of truffle spores is needed. Ive googled and checked lots of links and just havent been able to come across any suppliers. After spores are aquired it would be excellent to turn the print into a couple dozen prints to be able to send to other shroomery truffle team members. or if the prints are easily available at some website, we can all buy our own, whatever. After spores are distributed, work on a suitable agar mix will be needed to support the mycelium growth. once this is completed we should be able to mail tissue samples easily to other members. From there its on to finding a suitable fruiting substrate. but we'll take it a step at a time.

You will likely need to have or be willing to have agar work skills, some creative thinking, and dedication. So if you're interested just reply below.


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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


Edited by Eightball (03/30/05 01:36 PM)


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #3990982 - 03/30/05 03:05 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I'm game!

I'll start doing some research..
First question for which I am seeking an answer:
what is exchanged between the trees roots and a mycorrhizal fungus? food? water? in part or whole? does it depend on the species of mycorrhizal fungi?
Found somewhat of an answer here: http://www-mykopat.slu.se/Newwebsite/ex/lina/lina.html

This is interesting:
"ascospores are held inside the fruitbody, truffle spores are not spread by the wind"

So I don't clutter up your thread, I'll edit this post with new links:

This has some interesting info:
http://www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/NPP/01-084.pdf


Edited by Olgualion (03/30/05 03:59 PM)


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Invisiblepinkfloydms
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Olgualion]
    #3991028 - 03/30/05 03:19 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

You know I'm in with ya Eightba||!


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

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OfflineXTCollection
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #3991560 - 03/30/05 05:19 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

May I join? This interests me greatly.


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #3991944 - 03/30/05 06:50 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I would say if we can find a over seas or local soil based super fresh truffle we clone it. Cuz I really dont think it fruites or sporualtes. I feel like its more of just a fungal tumor so to speak, that lives all in all under ground connected in its own underworld mycelial and root networks, gets from tree to tree by a new trees roots coming in contact with the infected host tree. Next we need to study what kind of metabolites it escreates, and take those byproducts and see what it is broken down from. Then we need to see if it can be grown on sawdust or some other substrate. I got a feeling that the maturation rate is rather slow so it be a long testing. We need to see if it can form sclerotia invitro.

Thats all i can think of at the moment.


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Invisibleeric_the_redS
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #3992150 - 03/30/05 07:34 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

cool idea.

we don't have money or huge research facilities, but we do have huge numbers of willing cultivators.

it would blow the collective mind of the world if shroomery members came up with an industry-shaking truffle tek.


--------------------
Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: eric_the_red]
    #3992257 - 03/30/05 07:59 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Indeed, If we can grow what ever the hell it is we grow withh all the genios techniques we have all come up with over the years. Why the hell cant we put our minds that are often set to one way of phsycedelic thinking and use our so largly expanded feeled of thoughts to something like truffles. I got ideas, many of you got ideas, all we need is cultures and some time.


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Offlineprincess_toadie
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Olgualion]
    #3992291 - 03/30/05 08:09 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Truffles sound great. Plus it'll be fun to grow them as well as make the money, and maybe take a few for myself on the side. :smile: You can count me in for future cultivation.


--------------------
I live to love.


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InvisibleHolydiver
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: princess_toadie]
    #3992329 - 03/30/05 08:18 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

The purchase and distribution of cultures for everyone to study is the biggest roadblock here.


--------------------
To find a place to live between the negatives and positives.


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #3992330 - 03/30/05 08:18 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

If you can find me a culture, I'll do as much work as I possibly can.


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: princess_toadie]
    #3992333 - 03/30/05 08:19 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

i found that black truffels taste like poop, earthy poop the cat burried over a year prior to my eating them. Eather that or i got scamed with some poop


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #3992391 - 03/30/05 08:32 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser...&RS=truffle

( 35 of 36 )
United States Patent 4,345,403
Giovannetti August 24, 1982
Method of producing plants mycorrhyzated with symbiotic fungi


--------------------


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OfflineEightball
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: SoopaX]
    #3992404 - 03/30/05 08:37 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

yeah thats the current standard of production. inoculate a tree's roots with the truffle mycelium then plant the tree and wait years. I also found this at the US patent office which relates to a fertilizing mixture for truffles
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parse...&RS=truffle


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #3992681 - 03/30/05 09:45 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

This page is pretty funny. Look at the prices:
http://www.petfungus.com/sporebank_T.htm

They have some interesting Ps. species as well. I have never heard of them, so please do your research before messing around with them!


--------------------
Study the past...
See the future...


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Olgualion]
    #3992945 - 03/30/05 10:52 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I have thought about "recreating forests". Let me explain.

Selective harvesting of logs from forests, effectively thinning the forest. ALL wood products would be turned into mushrooms. That is: the slash will be chipped, the logs plugged, and the stump plugged as well.

Then, replant the forest. But replant the forest with trees that carry mycorhizzae.

Just think, 40,80, 1000 acres of trees. Each one carrys the same mycorhizzae.

Effectively it becomes the worlds largest "man made" organism.

Or, the forest could be mixed mycorhizzae. In a way it would become a "mushroom heaven". Saprophytic fungi would grow on the dead trees and mycorhizzae grow on every tree. Throughout the process, trees could be selectively logged for profit or because of parasitic infection. Stumps could be inoculated. Non-infected trees could be rough-felled and inoculated, just to create that "wild appearance". One could go so far as to hire small crews to bury wood blocks if a certain species is not native to the area or simply doesn't grow in the park naturally. It would be like a Game Farm for mushrooms! People could come from all around, pay a decent fee to stay at a rustic old cabin, hunt mushrooms all day long, and enjoy the day with other folks and eat home grown and wild mushrooms everyday.


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OfflineEightball
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Olgualion]
    #3992952 - 03/30/05 10:55 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

wow those prices are insane!

i think if it comes down to it, we can order inoculated trees @ $30 a pop from http://www.truffletree.com

edit: only thing that sucks is the shipping charges. Soooo its either a group buy or a couple people buy a tree on their own.


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


Edited by Eightball (03/30/05 10:58 PM)


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: YidakiMan]
    #3992953 - 03/30/05 10:55 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

If truffles are really ascocarps, then wouldn't spores be in the dried truffle?

I have bought dried black truffles before. Would they be active and fertile?

From what I've read, all one needs to do give a trees roots a bath of spore solution. But I guess that is the old way.


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OfflineEightball
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: YidakiMan]
    #3992971 - 03/30/05 10:59 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

yes i believe from what i read the spores are in the truffle (fruit). So really anyone with access to a 'whole' truffle should be able to get spores. prolly need to find a diagram of where they would be


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


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Offlinepshawny
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: SoopaX]
    #3993067 - 03/30/05 11:27 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

A patent for growing truffles! That's funny. So does somebody have a patent for growing corn, wheat, etc ? If one were to order a truffle-tree could you take a clean sample of the fungus and clone it on agar?


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OfflineEightball
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #3993072 - 03/30/05 11:29 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

relivent links to truffle cult


Spores are INSIDE the truffle fruit i believe and its intended to be eaten then spores spread via poo
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:muZ...lient=firefox-a

http://profiler.bgu.ac.il/site/public_site/Show_User.cfm?user_id=389
http://profiler.bgu.ac.il/site/public_site/Show_User.cfm?user_id=1098


http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:UC9...lient=firefox-a
"Oak trees, which supported the truffle fungus were cut down and land was developed for more profitable crops. After World War II demand grew again, however supply was inadequate and prices became exorbitant. It was the increase in demand that prompted researchers to find a means for increasing the supply of truffles to meet demand. It would not be until 1972 that Grente and Delmas proposed the most logical means of propagating truffles, which was to inoculate the fungus to the host tree."


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


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OfflineKevin
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #3993144 - 03/30/05 11:48 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

im in oregon where black truffles grow.

spores might be hard to obtain. a tissue culture would make more sense.

ill see what i can find this spring, and if i find a good truffle, maybe give it to Joshua. He is good with that stuff, and could produce some viable petris im sure, and grow mycel syringes and such if hed be down


--------------------
"Is it a mile walking, or a mile driving?" - dobie



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OfflineXTCollection
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Kevin]
    #3993961 - 03/31/05 07:30 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Well, how about purchasing one fresh, and then taking tissue clones?

Ill look today, see if I can order a couple.


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: XTCollection]
    #3994553 - 03/31/05 09:59 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I have not found a single reference to T. melanosporum being successfuly cultured on agar. This may be the biggest obstacle. Most ref's talk about inoculating roots with spore solution.

I did find one ref that said all that could be grown on agar to date was slime (albeit with the correct DNA markers)! Home cult may involve something along the lines of TC of selected trees roots', and inoculating this with spores/ mycelium. This is definitely over my head at this point (although I have recently been getting into TC).


--------------------
Study the past...
See the future...


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OfflineMobius_Strip
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Olgualion]
    #3994892 - 03/31/05 11:05 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe this is a looooong stretch but: What if one were to find out which trees truffles prefer, take some roots from that tree and extract all of the oils, nutrients, etc.. through distilation, sterylize it and add that to the agar? What if it's not the root system they prefer but a chemical message that root provides or maybe even other microorganisms tree roots also harbor/attract. Just a thought.


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The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky


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InvisibleTHEDANGLER
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Mobius_Strip]
    #3995369 - 03/31/05 01:13 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

mabey you could just grind the roots up...what types of trees do they grow under/on...im down...got a whole forest to work with...


--------------------
TONS OF SPORES TO TRADE PM ME!!!!


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OfflineEightball
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: THEDANGLER]
    #3995443 - 03/31/05 01:29 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

basically any trees besides pine and cypress i think. but it would be very tough finding some without a pig or knowing its an orchard for truffles. Also preferably we should focus on french white or black truffles considering they are the most expensive. Different strains of truffle will likely require modifications in the substrate/agar.

definitely just start browsing google and learn more bout the truffles. if you come across something important, post it.

also im thrilled in the responses this thread has had. Keep up the good work.


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: THEDANGLER]
    #3995485 - 03/31/05 01:39 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

THEDANGLER said:
mabey you could just grind the roots up...what types of trees do they grow under/on...im down...got a whole forest to work with...




1stly, you would know that several species can be utilised if you take the time to read the links that have been posted in this very thread...

Quote:


For the inoculation experiment three tree species (Quercus robur, Carpinus betulus and Corylus avellana),



Quote:


The fungus forms a symbiotic relationship with hazel (Corylus avellana) and oak (Quercus spp) trees.





2ndly, you might be on to something but I would be willing to be that the roots are FAR more useful alive as opposed to ground up. The root system acts as a mycelial extension... and vice versa. The roots are capable of nutrient conversion and separation the mycelia isn't and well, vice versa. My assertion is particularly bolstered by some of the evidence presented in the above referenced links.


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InvisibleTHEDANGLER
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: debianlinux]
    #3995711 - 03/31/05 02:17 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

yes your right i didn't read the links...i have tons of hard wood trees behind my house so im not worried about wasting some rots if i could get some mycilla to grow on it...i know that some symbiotic mushrooms will grow on agar but wont fruit could this be the case with truffles to?


--------------------
TONS OF SPORES TO TRADE PM ME!!!!


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OfflineGourmetGuy
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: THEDANGLER]
    #3999536 - 04/01/05 09:52 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Since no one has mentioned it yet, here is a link to New World Truffieres.
http://www.truffletree.com/
These guys inoculate seedling hazelnut trees with Tuber melanosporum and other truffles. They say "These seedlings are checked individually to confirm the presence of the fungus and we provide a quality guarantee that the trees are viable, abundantly colonized by the truffle ectomycorrhizae and completely free of competitor species." One seedling is $30. To get this project going, I suggest someone obtains a seedling, and then learns how to identify the truffle ectomycorrhizae (microscope?). From this point, the shroomery folks can try out different recipes for culturing and see what works. Since truffles require host plants, I will be interested to here what ideas people have beyond the traditional approach of infecting the roots an oak tree or hazelnut tree.
-Mark, Seattle


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OfflineXTCollection
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: GourmetGuy]
    #3999568 - 04/01/05 10:01 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Okay, ordering 8 seedlings today.

Edit - I rarely use offensive words in my post, but awsome fucking link.


Edited by XTCollection (04/01/05 10:02 AM)


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OfflineGourmetGuy
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: XTCollection]
    #3999641 - 04/01/05 10:20 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Apologies to Eightball. He was the first to point out
http://www.truffletree.com
-Mark


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InvisibleSpeeker

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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: GourmetGuy]
    #3999772 - 04/01/05 10:50 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)



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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Speeker]
    #4006613 - 04/02/05 08:52 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

My parents have been talking about getting rid of their yew bush, perhaps I will convince them to replace it with a truffle inoculated hazelnut.

Aside from that, I will be culturing American Beech soon and attempting to culture Cantharellus as mycorhizzae.


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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #7527901 - 10/17/07 02:00 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

So, i'm really interested if any one has any news on the truffles?

Anyone found them underneath their tree's yet or anything?

I'm very intrigued
and I want some truffles
:smilingpuppy:


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“You've got as many lives as you like, and more, even ones you don't want.” - George Harrison


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Offlinekoopa_troopa
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: dirtworshipper]
    #8973400 - 09/23/08 02:28 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

did anyone have any luck.. im very interested in this


--------------------

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Invisiblepinkfloydms
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: koopa_troopa]
    #8973621 - 09/23/08 03:13 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think it ever got off the ground. I moved shortly after this and then didn't have the place for cultivation, so I never even got started. :ohwell:


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:


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Offlineasci
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #8980731 - 09/24/08 08:23 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

there are several ways to inoculate tuber species with the specific photobiont, one technique is to expose the fruit body glebla to soil of the invitro seedling or creating a spore/tissue solution. in regards to the spore germination on a sterilized media it is difficult and is a fairly slow process, and only certain species have proven successful invitro. as for the fruiting process of VAM/AM or ect's mycorrhizal fungi, plantation's are currently the only option for fruit formation. there is another aspect to think of and that is fungal succession in the rhizosphere, this mainly has relevance with the indigenous tuber species of the pacific northwest. i would imagine the cultivation of european tuber would be far more lucrative, but would also entail changing the surrounding ecology to facilitate the health and productivity of the european species. there has been great success with plantations located in new zealand, and limited success in oregon.


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OfflineGlobal_exotics
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: asci]
    #8982703 - 09/25/08 03:50 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Well guys I think I have your solution, I am a truffle dealer, selling mainly European truffle species. Next month our partner from France is coming over to help us set up our farm. So I see you guys need truffle spores, well I have them, tons of them, I will be listing them on ebay as soon as my first shipment arrives (they are clearing customs now). They are Italian black truffles (tuber aestivum vitt). This species will probably be the simplest for you to cultivate. If you want more information you can email me at biberstine79@yahoo.com the spores are suspended in a nutrient base and I have directions for use.


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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Global_exotics]
    #8982953 - 09/25/08 06:03 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I've thought about this a bit.  What about maple syrup in agar?  I'm not kidding!  Maple syrup is essentially concentrated tree sap.  Isn't this what mycorrhizal species receive from the tree?

Another thought.  How about air layering?  If you find a tree that hosts the mycorrhizal species you'd like to propagate, make up a culture of that mushroom species and add it to soil from around the tree, then use a Rooter-Pot or something on one of the tree branches.  As the cutting sends out new roots, they would immediately associate with the desired mushroom species.  Rooting hormone probably wouldn't work with this method because commercial rooting hormones generally contain antifungal compounds.  Air layering takes months, especially with slow growing tree species like oaks, so this is a project that would start in the Spring and would require a bit of fussing over to keep cool and hydrated since you can't use live sphagnum moss, which is the normal method.

I've used air layering techniques to root cuttings from my bay laurel, and it works surprisingly well.  I think the upside to this would be that you're recreating the existing relationship, as the tree and the mushroom species would be genetically identical.  Downside?  Still need the tree.


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OfflineGlobal_exotics
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Paresthesia]
    #8984412 - 09/25/08 01:37 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

what do you guys want? Truffle spores or actual truffles?


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OfflineGlobal_exotics
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Global_exotics]
    #8985195 - 09/25/08 04:08 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

Search auction number 180293493358 on ebay, it is my first truffle spore/tissue syringe listing.


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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Global_exotics]
    #8986785 - 09/25/08 09:11 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

To tell you guys the truth, I hardly know anything past cube/cyan cultivation anymore. It's been so long since I've done any cultivation at all. I wouldn't know the best way to start anymore on a thing like truffles except just try different things. :ohwell:

Maybe this is what I need to get interested again. :wink:


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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9002346 - 09/29/08 11:57 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I may be new to this forum...but I'm certainly interested with this thread that just got necromanced. I wanted to do truffles when I got into this hobby...

Hey, it could be just what the doctor ordered there Pinkfloyd!

interesting you dropped in opportunely Global Exotics!


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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #9031265 - 10/05/08 05:10 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Yea, we had been looking for a supplier of spores for a few years now, but were limited to buying the whole inoculated trees for our farm. We sold a few but I think we are going to stick to selling our truffles, I told the importer he should go ahead and sell the spore syringes on ebay and he is doing just that. Look them up.


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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #9031375 - 10/05/08 06:23 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

It has a Bin on it for 20$.


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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: teknix]
    #9037374 - 10/06/08 01:40 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

If we want a bunch of them, I can probably get him to give them to me for 8-10


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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #22883306 - 02/09/16 02:36 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Thank you for all the info!!!


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