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OfflineEightball
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Truffle Production Team
    #3990440 - 03/30/05 03:28 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Truffles are the most valuable mushroom costing upwards of $1000-$3000 per lb (black truffles). This is due to very stone-age/inefficient, low yeilding, slow producing methods of planting orchards of trees (oak) with rootsystems inoculated with the truffle fungus. the truffles have a symbiotic (i would argue they are more parasitic) relationship with the roots, taking sugars from them. Im sure they do somehting bennificial for the roots too but nothing 100% nessesary for the trees survival/health.

"Typical yields [of truffles] in Europe range between 25 and 35 pounds per acre each year, but as methods improve many more farms are achieving yields in excess of 100 pounds per acre."

takes around 3 years minimum before a newly planted inoculated tree can have truffles being produced around it.

So currently a couple of orchards in the US exist + france and europe in general. This causes prices to be so high simply because of supply/demand and of course iron chef bastards burning through kilos of em.

Interested in altering world markets? Establishing a multi-billion $ 'synthetic-truffle' industry appeal to you? We NEED to find a substrate which isnt some bloody tree which can support the truffle growth so we can produce in very controled enviroments. This way we can have a very high density of truffles being produced per volume of 'warehouse' space.

Nondisclosure may be an important thing to consider down the road when this project is underway because the shroomery or whoever working on the project should have first dibs off making bank on the tek, not some well-funded person who comes across our compiled data/techniques.

Currently a source of truffle spores is needed. Ive googled and checked lots of links and just havent been able to come across any suppliers. After spores are aquired it would be excellent to turn the print into a couple dozen prints to be able to send to other shroomery truffle team members. or if the prints are easily available at some website, we can all buy our own, whatever. After spores are distributed, work on a suitable agar mix will be needed to support the mycelium growth. once this is completed we should be able to mail tissue samples easily to other members. From there its on to finding a suitable fruiting substrate. but we'll take it a step at a time.

You will likely need to have or be willing to have agar work skills, some creative thinking, and dedication. So if you're interested just reply below.


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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


Edited by Eightball (03/30/05 03:36 PM)


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #3990982 - 03/30/05 05:05 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'm game!

I'll start doing some research..
First question for which I am seeking an answer:
what is exchanged between the trees roots and a mycorrhizal fungus? food? water? in part or whole? does it depend on the species of mycorrhizal fungi?
Found somewhat of an answer here: http://www-mykopat.slu.se/Newwebsite/ex/lina/lina.html

This is interesting:
"ascospores are held inside the fruitbody, truffle spores are not spread by the wind"

So I don't clutter up your thread, I'll edit this post with new links:

This has some interesting info:
http://www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/NPP/01-084.pdf


Edited by Olgualion (03/30/05 05:59 PM)


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Invisiblepinkfloydms
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Olgualion]
    #3991028 - 03/30/05 05:19 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You know I'm in with ya Eightba||!


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OfflineXTCollection
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #3991560 - 03/30/05 07:19 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

May I join? This interests me greatly.


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #3991944 - 03/30/05 08:50 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I would say if we can find a over seas or local soil based super fresh truffle we clone it. Cuz I really dont think it fruites or sporualtes. I feel like its more of just a fungal tumor so to speak, that lives all in all under ground connected in its own underworld mycelial and root networks, gets from tree to tree by a new trees roots coming in contact with the infected host tree. Next we need to study what kind of metabolites it escreates, and take those byproducts and see what it is broken down from. Then we need to see if it can be grown on sawdust or some other substrate. I got a feeling that the maturation rate is rather slow so it be a long testing. We need to see if it can form sclerotia invitro.

Thats all i can think of at the moment.


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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #3992150 - 03/30/05 09:34 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

cool idea.

we don't have money or huge research facilities, but we do have huge numbers of willing cultivators.

it would blow the collective mind of the world if shroomery members came up with an industry-shaking truffle tek.


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: eric_the_red]
    #3992257 - 03/30/05 09:59 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Indeed, If we can grow what ever the hell it is we grow withh all the genios techniques we have all come up with over the years. Why the hell cant we put our minds that are often set to one way of phsycedelic thinking and use our so largly expanded feeled of thoughts to something like truffles. I got ideas, many of you got ideas, all we need is cultures and some time.


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Offlineprincess_toadie
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Olgualion]
    #3992291 - 03/30/05 10:09 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Truffles sound great. Plus it'll be fun to grow them as well as make the money, and maybe take a few for myself on the side. :smile: You can count me in for future cultivation.


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InvisibleHolydiver
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: princess_toadie]
    #3992329 - 03/30/05 10:18 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

The purchase and distribution of cultures for everyone to study is the biggest roadblock here.


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #3992330 - 03/30/05 10:18 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

If you can find me a culture, I'll do as much work as I possibly can.


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: princess_toadie]
    #3992333 - 03/30/05 10:19 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

i found that black truffels taste like poop, earthy poop the cat burried over a year prior to my eating them. Eather that or i got scamed with some poop


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #3992391 - 03/30/05 10:32 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser...&RS=truffle

( 35 of 36 )
United States Patent 4,345,403
Giovannetti August 24, 1982
Method of producing plants mycorrhyzated with symbiotic fungi


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OfflineEightball
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: SoopaX]
    #3992404 - 03/30/05 10:37 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

yeah thats the current standard of production. inoculate a tree's roots with the truffle mycelium then plant the tree and wait years. I also found this at the US patent office which relates to a fertilizing mixture for truffles
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parse...&RS=truffle


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #3992681 - 03/30/05 11:45 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

This page is pretty funny. Look at the prices:
http://www.petfungus.com/sporebank_T.htm

They have some interesting Ps. species as well. I have never heard of them, so please do your research before messing around with them!


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See the future...


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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Olgualion]
    #3992945 - 03/31/05 12:52 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I have thought about "recreating forests". Let me explain.

Selective harvesting of logs from forests, effectively thinning the forest. ALL wood products would be turned into mushrooms. That is: the slash will be chipped, the logs plugged, and the stump plugged as well.

Then, replant the forest. But replant the forest with trees that carry mycorhizzae.

Just think, 40,80, 1000 acres of trees. Each one carrys the same mycorhizzae.

Effectively it becomes the worlds largest "man made" organism.

Or, the forest could be mixed mycorhizzae. In a way it would become a "mushroom heaven". Saprophytic fungi would grow on the dead trees and mycorhizzae grow on every tree. Throughout the process, trees could be selectively logged for profit or because of parasitic infection. Stumps could be inoculated. Non-infected trees could be rough-felled and inoculated, just to create that "wild appearance". One could go so far as to hire small crews to bury wood blocks if a certain species is not native to the area or simply doesn't grow in the park naturally. It would be like a Game Farm for mushrooms! People could come from all around, pay a decent fee to stay at a rustic old cabin, hunt mushrooms all day long, and enjoy the day with other folks and eat home grown and wild mushrooms everyday.


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OfflineEightball
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Olgualion]
    #3992952 - 03/31/05 12:55 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

wow those prices are insane!

i think if it comes down to it, we can order inoculated trees @ $30 a pop from http://www.truffletree.com

edit: only thing that sucks is the shipping charges. Soooo its either a group buy or a couple people buy a tree on their own.


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


Edited by Eightball (03/31/05 12:58 AM)


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: YidakiMan]
    #3992953 - 03/31/05 12:55 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

If truffles are really ascocarps, then wouldn't spores be in the dried truffle?

I have bought dried black truffles before. Would they be active and fertile?

From what I've read, all one needs to do give a trees roots a bath of spore solution. But I guess that is the old way.


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OfflineEightball
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: YidakiMan]
    #3992971 - 03/31/05 12:59 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

yes i believe from what i read the spores are in the truffle (fruit). So really anyone with access to a 'whole' truffle should be able to get spores. prolly need to find a diagram of where they would be


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


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Offlinepshawny
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: SoopaX]
    #3993067 - 03/31/05 01:27 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

A patent for growing truffles! That's funny. So does somebody have a patent for growing corn, wheat, etc ? If one were to order a truffle-tree could you take a clean sample of the fungus and clone it on agar?


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OfflineEightball
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Re: Truffle Production Team [Re: Eightball]
    #3993072 - 03/31/05 01:29 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

relivent links to truffle cult


Spores are INSIDE the truffle fruit i believe and its intended to be eaten then spores spread via poo
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:muZ...lient=firefox-a

http://profiler.bgu.ac.il/site/public_site/Show_User.cfm?user_id=389
http://profiler.bgu.ac.il/site/public_site/Show_User.cfm?user_id=1098


http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:UC9...lient=firefox-a
"Oak trees, which supported the truffle fungus were cut down and land was developed for more profitable crops. After World War II demand grew again, however supply was inadequate and prices became exorbitant. It was the increase in demand that prompted researchers to find a means for increasing the supply of truffles to meet demand. It would not be until 1972 that Grente and Delmas proposed the most logical means of propagating truffles, which was to inoculate the fungus to the host tree."


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


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