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OfflineGazzBut
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Registered: 10/15/02
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How Niceness Evolves
    #1747048 - 07/25/03 05:27 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Nice

The jist of it is that selfish behaviour within a group will help the individual succeed but altruistic groups will be more successful than groups composed of selfish individuals. Greed will only get you so far sort of thing.


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Always Smi2le


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: How Niceness Evolves [Re: GazzBut]
    #1747069 - 07/25/03 05:41 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting read. I mostly skimmed it this morning but it appears worthy of a more detailed read.

I found this sentence interesting....
"It may seem a simple twisting of words to say behaviour that's good for the group will be selected by evolution if it's also good for the individual"

Funny thing.... I didn't see the article state anywhere that forced changes are beneficial, not that you said that.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: How Niceness Evolves [Re: GazzBut]
    #1747257 - 07/25/03 08:43 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Good article. Until I read it, I didn't even know that group selection had been considered controversial. I always thought it was obvious that the selfish-gene principle worked on all levels.

But Wilson seems to be a little sloppy with his terminology:

"The fundamental problem of social life is that selfishness beats altruism within a group. But altruistic groups trump selfish groups. It's amazing that you can take such a controversial theory and describe it in two sentences."

By altruistic groups I assume he means groups whose members help other members of the same group. Not groups who are altruistic toward other groups.

And a selfish group is, in my understanding, a group that is only concerned about its own interests and doesn't care about other groups. A group of selfish people is simply a group of selfish people, which is not necessarily a more selfish group than a group of group-egoistic people.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: How Niceness Evolves [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1747312 - 07/25/03 09:22 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

The point is a group of selfish people will not prosper as well as a group that works for the good of the whole. Its not exactly rocket science but its a concept that has been somewhat overlooked.


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Always Smi2le


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: How Niceness Evolves [Re: GazzBut]
    #1747319 - 07/25/03 09:24 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Actually, the point is, people will work for the benefit of the group as long as it doesn't harm their own chances.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: How Niceness Evolves [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1747415 - 07/25/03 10:07 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

No thats your point. That is not the point being made by the guy in the article.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
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Re: How Niceness Evolves [Re: GazzBut]
    #1747429 - 07/25/03 10:10 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
No thats your point. That is not the point being made by the guy in the article.



If you say so.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: How Niceness Evolves [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1747435 - 07/25/03 10:12 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Please show me evidence to the contrary as you are obviously being sarcastic.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: How Niceness Evolves [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1747436 - 07/25/03 10:12 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Please show me evidence to the contrary as you are obviously being sarcastic.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: How Niceness Evolves [Re: GazzBut]
    #1747441 - 07/25/03 10:15 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Please show me evidence to the contrary as you are obviously being sarcastic.



"It may seem a simple twisting of words to say behaviour that's good for the group will be selected by evolution if it's also good for the individual"


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: How Niceness Evolves [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1747483 - 07/25/03 10:31 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Touche!  :grin: 


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflineGazzBut
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Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: How Niceness Evolves [Re: GazzBut]
    #1747493 - 07/25/03 10:35 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

But obviously behaviour which does not benefit or harms the whole group would not be carried out by the individual members of the group.


--------------------
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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: How Niceness Evolves [Re: GazzBut]
    #1747512 - 07/25/03 10:45 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Nothing is obvious.

As I haven't had a chance to do a detailed reading of the article, I'd be doing you and I a dis-service to debate it any further until I have a chance to do a detailed read.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: How Niceness Evolves [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1747653 - 07/25/03 12:11 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

basic evolutionary psychology is fun.

ever hear of kin selection theory? it states that inborn love for family members is a behaviorial evolution which came from the need to protect our own and similar DNA.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinepattern
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Registered: 07/19/02
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Re: How Niceness Evolves [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1748395 - 07/25/03 03:48 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Awesome article, thanks


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man = monkey + mushroom


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