Home | Community | Message Board


MushroomCube.com
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: Jimi Hendrix

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
InvisibleTrueBrode
Stranger

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 287
another 911 conspiracy article
    #2294295 - 02/02/04 03:33 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I bolded the parts I thought were most relevant. I thought there were eye witnesses that saw a plane hit the Pentagon, so I thought that might be a flaw. Can anybody find any other flaws in this?


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't let the title of this article deceive you
'MAD CONSPIRACY THEORIES'
By Gerard Holmgren - Wed Feb 12, 2003
debunker@hotmail.com
http://maritimes.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=4086

DEBUNKING CONSPIRACY THEORISTS
PARANOID FANTASIES ABOUT SEPT 11
DISTRACT FROM THE REAL ISSUES
By Gerard Holmgren debunker@hotmail.com
Copyright Gerard Holmgren. Jan 2003.
This work may be freely copied and distributed without permission
as long as it not for commercial use. Please include the author's
name, the web address where you found it and the copyright notice.

Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will usually be at least one, often several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it. "The CIA killed Hendrix" "The Pope had John Lennon murdered", "Hitler was half Werewolf", "Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone" etc, etc. The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it.
So it?s hardly surprising that the events of Sept 11 2001 have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales. And as always, there is - sadly - a small but gullible percentage of the population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or rational analysis.
One of the wilder stories circulating about Sept 11, and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs is that it was carried out by 19 fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they "hate our freedoms."
Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell.
Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories.
These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unaware by the attacks, had no hand in organizing them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able. Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US air-force, the insider trading on airline stocks - linked to the CIA, the complicit behavior of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer 4 planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly 2 hours, crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do.
The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to invent even more preposterous stories to distract from its core silliness, and thus the tale has escalated into a mythic fantasy of truly gargantuan proportions.
It's difficult to apply rational analysis to such unmitigated stupidity, but that is the task which I take on in this article. However, it should be noted that one of the curious characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that they effortlessly change their so called evidence in response to each aspect which is debunked. As soon as one delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it, and deny that the first ever existed. Eventually, when they have turned full circle through this endlessly changing fantasy fog, they then re-invent the original delusion and deny that you ever debunked it, thus beginning the circle once more. This technique is known as "the fruit loop" and saves the conspiracy theorist from ever having to see any of their ideas through to their (ill)logical conclusions.
According to the practitioners of the fruit loop, 19 Arabs took over the 4 planes by subduing the passengers and crew through the use of guns, knives, box cutters and gas, and then used electronic guidance systems which they had smuggled on board to fly the planes to their targets.
The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous concoction is only for the hard core conspiracy theorist. For a start, they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any Arabs on the planes. If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got on board without being filmed by any of the security cameras and without being registered on the passenger lists. But the curly question of how they are supposed to have got on board is all too mundane for the exciting world of the conspiracy theorist. With vague mumblings that they must have been using false ID ( but never specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these were traced to their real identities), they quickly bypass this problem, to relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the fictitious fiends were actually searched before boarding because they looked suspicious. However, as inevitably happens with any web of lies, this simply paints them into an even more difficult corner. How are they supposed to have got on board with all that stuff if they were searched? And if they used gas in a confined space, they would have been affected themselves unless they also had masks in their luggage.
"Excuse me sir, why do you have a box cutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?" "A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get." "Very strange", thinks the security officer. "That's the fourth Arabic man without an Arabic name who just got on board with a knife, gun or box cutter and gas mask. And why does that security camera keep flicking off every time one these characters shows up? Must be one of those days I guess..."
Asking any of these basic questions to a conspiracy theorist is likely to cause a sudden leap to the claim that we know that they were on board because they left a credit card trail for the tickets they had purchased and cars they had rented. So if they used credit cards that identified them, how does that reconcile with the claim that they used false IDs to get on to the plane? But by this time, the fruit loop is in full swing, as the conspiracy theorist tries to stay one jump ahead of this annoying and awkward rational analysis. They will allege that the hijackers' passports were found at the crash scenes. "So there!" they exalt triumphantly, their fanatical faces lighting up with that deranged look of one who has just a revelation of questionable sanity.
Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real passports with them?
However, by this time the fruit loop has been completely circumnavigated, and the conspiracy theorist exclaims impatiently, "Who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!" And so the whole loop starts again. "Well, why aren't they on the passenger lists?" "You numbskull! They assumed the identities of other passengers!" And so on...
Finally, out of sheer fascination with this circular method of creative delusion, the rational skeptic will allow them to get away with this loop, in order to move on to the next question, and see what further delights await us in the unraveling of this marvelously stupid story.
"Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers? " The answer of course is that its just one of those strange co-incidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen...
This is another favorite deductive method of the conspiracy theorist. The "improbability drive", in which they decide upon a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to support it, and then continually speculate a series of wildly improbable events and unbelievable co-incidences to support it, shrugging off the implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes the impossible happens (just about all the time in their world). There is a principle called "Occam's razor" which suggests that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is most likely to be correct. Conspiracy theorists hate Occam's razor.
Having for the sake of amusement, allowed them to get away with the silly story of the 19 invisible Arabs, we move on to the question of how they are supposed to have taken over the planes.
Hijacking a plane is not an easy thing to do. Hijacking it without the pilot being able to alert ground control is near impossible. The pilot has only to punch in a four digit code to alert ground control to a hijacking. Unconcerned with the awkward question of plausibility, the conspiracy buffs maintain that on that Sept 11, the invisible hijackers took over the plane by the rather crude method of threatening people with box cutters and knives, and spraying gas (after they had attached their masks, obviously), but somehow took control of the plane without the crew first getting a chance to punch in the hijacking code. Not just on one plane, but on all four. At this point in the tale, the conspiracy theorist is again forced to call upon the services of the improbability drive.

So now that our incredibly lucky hijackers have taken control of the planes, all four pilots fly them with breath taking skill and certainty to their fiery end, all four pilots unflinching in their steely resolve for a swift meeting with Allah. Apart from their psychotic hatred of "our freedoms", it was their fanatical devotion to Islam which enabled them to summon up the iron will to do this. Which is strange, because according to another piece of hearsay peddled by the conspiracy buffs, these guys actually went out drinking and womanizing the night before their great martyrdom, even leaving their Korans in the bar -really impeccable Islamic behavior - and then got up at 5am the next morning to pull off the greatest covert operation in history. This also requires us to believe that they were even clear headed enough to learn how to fly the huge planes by reading flight manuals in Arabic in the car on the way to the airport. We know this because they supposedly left the flight manuals there for us to find.
It gets better. Their practical training had allegedly been limited to Cessnas and flight simulators, but this was no barrier to the unflinching certainty with which they took over the planes and skillfully guided them to their doom. If they are supposed to have done their flight training with these tools, which would be available just about anywhere in the world, its not clear why they would have decided to risk blowing their cover to US intelligence services by doing the training in Florida, rather than somewhere in the Middle East , but such reasoning is foreign to the foggy world of the conspiracy theorist, too trapped in the constant rotation of the mental fruit loop to make their unsubstantiated fabrications seem even semi-believable.
Having triumphantly established a circular delusion in support of the mythical Arabs, the conspiracy theorist now confronts the difficult question of why there's nothing left of the planes. Anybody who has seen the endlessly replayed footage of the second plane going into the WTC will realize that the plane was packed with explosives. Planes do not and cannot blow up into nothing in that manner when they crash.
Did the mythical Arabs also haul a huge heap of explosives on board, and mange to deploy them in such a manner that they went off in the exact instant of the crash, completely vaporizing the plane?
This is a little difficult even for the conspiracy theorist, who at this point decides that it?s easier to invent new laws of physics in order to keep the delusion rolling along.
There weren't any explosives. It wasn't an inside job. The plane blew up into nothing from its exploding fuel load! Remarkable! Sluggishly combustible jet fuel which is basically kerosene, and which burns at a maximum temperature of around 800 C has suddenly taken on the qualities of a ferociously explosive demolition agent, vaporizing 65 tons of aircraft into a puff of smoke. Never mind that a plane of that size contains around 15 tons of steel and titanium, of which even the melting points are about double that of the maximum combustion temperature of kerosene - let alone the boiling point - which is what would be required to vaporize a plane. And then there's about 50 tons of aluminum to be accounted for. In excess of 15lbs of metal for each gallon of kerosene.
For the conspiracy theorist, such inconvenient facts are vaguely dismissed as "mumbo jumbo". This convenient little phrase is their answer to just about anything factual or logical. Like a conjurer pulling a rabbit out of a hat, they suddenly become fanatically insistent about the devastating explosive qualities of kerosene, something hitherto completely unknown to science, but just discovered by them, this very minute. Blissfully ignoring the fact that never before or since in aviation history has a plane vaporized into nothing from an exploding fuel load, the conspiracy theorist relies upon Hollywood images, where the effects are always larger than life, and certainly larger than the intellects of these cretins.
"It?s a well known fact that planes blow up into nothing on impact." they state with pompous certainty. "Watch any Bruce Willis movie."
"Care to provide any documented examples? If it's a well known fact, then presumably this well known fact springs from some kind of documentation - other than Bruce Willis movies?"

At this point the mad but cunning eyes of the conspiracy theorist will narrow as they sense the corner that they have backed themselves into, and plan their escape by means of another stunning back flip.
"Ah, but planes have never crashed into buildings before, so there's no way of telling." they counter with a sly grin.
Well, actually planes have crashed into buildings before and since, and not vaporized into nothing.
"But not big planes, with that much fuel", they shriek in hysterical denial.
Or that much metal to vaporize.
"Yes but not hijacked planes!"
"Are you suggesting that whether the crash is deliberate or accidental affects the combustion qualities of the fuel?"
"Now you're just being silly".
Although collisions with buildings are rare, planes frequently crash into mountains, streets, other aircraft, nosedive into the ground, or have bombs planted aboard them, and don't vaporize into nothing. What's so special about a tower that's mostly glass? But by now, the conspiracy theorist has once again sailed happily around the fruit loop. "It?s a well documented fact that planes explode into nothing on impact."
Effortlessly weaving back and forth between the position that its a "well known fact" and that "its never happened before, so we have nothing to compare it to", the conspiracy theorist has now convinced themselves (if not too many other people) that the WTC plane was not loaded with explosives, and that the instant vaporization of the plane in a massive fireball was the same as any other plane crash you might care to mention. Round and round the fruit loop...
But the hurdles which confront the conspiracy theorist are many, and they are now forced to implement even more creative uses for the newly discovered shockingly destructive qualities of kerosene. They have to explain how the Arabs also engineered the elegant vertical collapse of both the WTC towers, and for this awkward fact the easiest counter is to simply deny that it was a controlled demolition, and claim that the buildings collapsed from fire caused by the burning kerosene.
For this, its necessary to sweep aside the second law of thermodynamics and propose kerosene which is not only impossibly destructive, but also recycles itself for a second burning in violation of the law of degradation of energy. You see, it not only consumed itself in a sudden catastrophic fireball, vaporizing a 65 ton plane into nothing, but then came back for a second go, burning at 2000C for another hour at the impact point, melting the skyscraper's steel like butter. And while it was doing all this it also poured down the elevator shafts, starting fires all through the building. When I was at school there was a little thing called the entropy law which suggests that a given portion of fuel can only burn once, something which is readily observable in the real world, even for those who didn't make it to junior high school science. But this is no problem for the conspiracy theorist. Gleefully, they claim that a few thousand gallons of kerosene is enough to
: completely vaporize a 65 ton aircraft
: have enough left over to burn ferociously enough for over an hour at the impact point to melt steel (melting point about double the maximum combustion temperature of the fuel)
: still have enough left over to pour down the elevator shafts and start similarly destructive fires all through the building.
This kerosene really is remarkable stuff! How chilling to realize that those kerosene heaters we had in the house when I was a kid were deadly bombs, just waiting to go off. One false move and the entire street might have been vaporized. And never again will I take kerosene lamps out camping. One moment you're there innocently holding the lamp - the next - kapow! Vaporized into nothing along with the rest of the camp site, and still leaving enough of the deadly stuff to start a massive forest fire.
These whackos are actually claiming that the raging inferno allegedly created by the miraculously recycling, and impossibly hot burning kerosene melted or at least softened the steel supports of the skyscraper. Oblivious to the fact that the smoke coming from the WTC was black, which indicates an oxygen starved fire - therefore, not particularly hot, they trumpet an alleged temperature in the building of 2000 C , without a shred of evidence to support this curious suspension of the laws of physics.
Not content with this ludicrous garbage, they then contend that as the steel frames softened, they came straight down instead of buckling and twisting and falling sideways.
Since they've already re-engineered the combustion qualities of jet fuel, violated the second law of thermodynamics, and re-defined the structural properties of steel, why let a little thing like the laws of gravity get in the way?
The tower fell in a time almost identical to that of a free falling object, dropped from that height, meaning that it?s physically impossible for it to have collapsed by the method of the top floors smashing through the lower floors. But according to the conspiracy theorists, the laws of gravity were temporarily suspended on the morning of Sept 11. It appears that the evil psychic power of those dreadful Arabs knew no bounds. Even after they were dead, they were able, by the power of their evil spirits, to force down the tower at a speed physically impossible under the laws of gravity, had it been meeting any resistance from fireproofed steel structures originally designed to resist many tons of hurricane force wind as well as the impact of a Boeing passenger jet straying off course.

Clearly, these conspiracy nuts never did their science homework at school, but did become extremely adept at inventing tall tales for why.
"Muslim terrorists stole my notes, sir"
"No miss, the kerosene heater blew up and vaporized everything in the street, except for my passport."
"You see sir, the school bus was hijacked by Arabs who destroyed my homework because they hate our freedoms."
Or perhaps they misunderstood the term "creative science" and mistakenly thought that coming up with such rubbish was in fact, their science homework.
The ferocious heat generated by this ghastly kerosene was, according to the conspiracy theorists, the reason why so many of the WTC victims can't be identified. DNA is destroyed by heat. (Although 2000 C isn't really required, 100C will generally do the job). This is quite remarkable, because according to the conspiracy theorist, the nature of DNA suddenly changes if you go to a different city.
That's right! If you are killed by an Arab terrorist in NY, your DNA will be destroyed by such temperatures. But if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in Washington DC, your DNA will be so robust that it can survive temperatures which completely vaporize a 65 ton aircraft.
You see, these loonies have somehow concocted the idea that the missile which hit the pentagon was not a missile at all, but one of the hijacked planes. And to prove this unlikely premise, they point to a propaganda statement from the Bush regime, which rather stupidly claims that all but one of the people aboard the plane were identified from the site by DNA testing, even though nothing remains of the plane. The plane was vaporized by the fuel tank explosion maintain these space loonies, but the people inside it were all but one identified by DNA testing.
So there we have it. The qualities of DNA are different, depending upon which city you're in, or perhaps depending upon which fairy story you're trying to sell at any particular time.
This concoction about one of the hijacked planes hitting the Pentagon really is a howler. For those not familiar with the layout of the Pentagon, it consists of 5 rings of building, each with a space in-between. Each ring of building is about 30 to 35 ft deep, with a similar amount of open space between it and the next ring. The object which penetrated the Pentagon went in at about a 45 degree angle, punching a neat circular hole of about a 12 ft diameter through three rings ( six walls). A little later a section of wall about 65 ft wide collapsed in the outer ring. Since the plane which the conspiracy theorists claim to be responsible for the impact had a wing span of 125 ft and a length of 155 ft, and there was no wreckage of the plane, either inside or outside the building, and the lawns outside were still smooth and green enough to play golf on, this crazy delusion is clearly physically impossible.

But hey, we've already disregarded the combustion qualities of jet fuel, the normal properties of common building materials, the properties of DNA, the laws of gravity and the second law of thermodynamics, so what the hell - why not throw in a little spatial impossibility as well ? I would have thought that the observation that a solid object cannot pass through another solid object without leaving a hole at least as big as itself is reasonably sound science. But to the conspiracy theorist, this is "mumbo jumbo". It conflicts with the delusion that they're hooked on, so it "must be wrong" although trying to get them to explain exactly how it could be wrong is a futile endeavor.
Conspiracy theorists fly into a curious panic whenever the Pentagon missile is mentioned. They nervously maintain that the plane was vaporized by its exploding fuel load and point to the WTC crash as evidence of this behavior. (That's a wonderful fruit loop.) Like an insect which has just been sprayed, running back and forth in its last mad death throes, they first argue that the reason the hole is so small is that the plane never entered the wall, having blown up outside, and then suddenly back flip to explain the 250 ft deep missile hole by saying that the plane disappeared all the way into the building, and then blew up inside the building (even though the building shows no sign of such damage). As for what happened to the wings - here's where they get really creative. The wings snapped off and folded into the fuselage which then carried them into the building, which then closed up behind the plane like a piece of meat.
When it suits them, they'll also claim that the plane slid in on its belly, (ignoring the undamaged lawn) while at the same time citing alleged witnesses to the plane diving steeply into the building from an "irrecoverable angle." How they reconcile these two scenarios as being compatible is truly a study in stupidity.

Once they get desperate enough, you can be sure that the UFO conspiracy stuff will make an appearance. The Arabs are in league with the Martians. Space aliens snatched the remains of the Pentagon plane and fixed most of the hole in the wall, just to confuse people. They gave the Arabs invisibility pills to help get them onto the planes. Little green men were seen talking to Bin Laden a few weeks prior to the attacks.
As the nation gears up to impeach the traitor Bush, and stop his perpetual oil war, it's not helpful to have these idiots distracting from the process by spreading silly conspiracy theories about mythical Arabs, stories which do nothing but play into the hands of the extremist Bush regime.
At a less serious time, we might tolerate such crackpots with amused detachment, but they need to understand that the treachery that was perpetrated on Sept 11, and the subsequent war crimes committed in "retaliation" are far too serious for us to allow such frivolous self indulgence to go unchallenged.
Those who are truly addicted to conspiracy delusions should find a more appropriate outlet for their paranoia.
Its time to stop loony conspiracy theories about Sept 11.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibletimetravel
I'm going toMars!

Registered: 12/08/03
Posts: 163
Loc: Holland
Re: another 911 conspiracy article [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2294948 - 02/02/04 07:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

My neighbor's daughter, who works in dc, saw a passanger plane bank sharply and crash into the pentagon. She said she did'nt see the actual crash but saw the plane seconds before it did. So I truly think any other theories about missles etc are just bullshit.
There are alot of other unanswered questions.


--------------------
Everything in this post happened 7 years ago. If you do not feel good get a hobby like r/c airplane flying.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 29,995
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 34 minutes, 2 seconds
Re: another 911 conspiracy article [Re: timetravel]
    #2294983 - 02/02/04 08:05 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I think 9-11 was an inside job, but I don't buy the missle theory.

Isn't there a plane unaccounted for??




--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: Park Avenue Playground - The Trip



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineskoomaguitarist
pathetique

Registered: 12/20/03
Posts: 201
Loc: superfailure
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: another 911 conspiracy article [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2299745 - 02/04/04 08:25 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

you know, i knew something funny was going on, but i didn't really think about it until this guy managed to put his finger on it... excellent post! it's time to stop the lies once and for all... if only everyone could realize what's going on....


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: another 911 conspiracy article [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2300042 - 02/04/04 11:33 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

More paranoid gibberish which ignores facts.

This is no better than the countless other conspiracy theorists ramblings I've been directed to over the last couple of years. What made it stand out in your mind as superior to the rest?

Can you summarize the most "convincing" points for us?

pinky


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTrueBrode
Stranger

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 287
Re: another 911 conspiracy article [Re: Phred]
    #2300076 - 02/04/04 11:48 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Can you tell me where the flaws are? I already pointed out the Pentagon having eyewitnesses. Unlike you, I come here to learn instead of spout off how dumb somthing is without even giving one detail why. So lets go, start reading and start telling me which details are incorrect and why, unless of course you refuse to read a 3-4 page, bolded paper.

Also tell me why the most powerful in our chain of command were unavailable that morning. Tell me why Bush sat in a classroom listenignt to kids read a story after he found out what happened. Tell me why he lied about it later when asked what he was doing that morning. Explain to me why Rumsfeld also lied about what he was doing that morning. Explain to me the 3 seperate stories of why the building 7 collaspsed. explain to why NORAD, the trillion dollar aircraft defense system, acted completely contrary to standard that morning. explain why from 1998-2001, Al queda arrests were quashed over ten times by the FBI, once on direct orders from Bill Clinton, and once on Direct Orders by George W. Bush. Explain to me with military bases 5 minutes away from the flight, why the air force failed to act. Explain to me why the secret service lied about a threat to air force one, and then drove around on air force one for hours that morning. explain to me why Bush, who was 5 minutes away from an airport, sat in a classroom next to an airport if these attacks were so "surprising." FInally, as stated above, point to what in the article is flawed like I originally asked.

unlike you, I don't buy completely non-sensical government reports, without any explanation, but you seem to prefer them.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: another 911 conspiracy article [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2301368 - 02/04/04 05:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Unlike you, I come here to learn instead of spout off how dumb somthing is without even giving one detail why.



:lol: You just said that to the man who goes into more detailed responses than any other here.

It's been done to death. Each "new" post on this subject is basically the same as the previous.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTrueBrode
Stranger

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 287
Re: another 911 conspiracy article [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2302019 - 02/04/04 07:59 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Did he say anything worthwhile? nope.
Have you attempted to say anything worthwhile? nope.
Did he even read the article?- I can't assume that he did because he asked me to summarize a 4 page article of which I even bolded the parts I was interested in hearing rebuttals toward.

If it's been done to death than answer my questions and point out why all the details in the article are wrong, flawed etc. I already pointed out that there were witnesses to the Pentagon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: another 911 conspiracy article [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2302123 - 02/04/04 08:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Use the search feature.

As I said, it's been done. Why spend time re-stating what has been stated several times?

Quote:

another 911 conspiracy article



And yet another 911 thread.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: another 911 conspiracy article [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2302143 - 02/04/04 08:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

there are a lot of questions i'd like to see answered about 9/11. i admittedly haven't done much research on myself, and haven't really even considered the points of the so-called conspiracy theorists. right now, i'm open to the idea that it may have been some kind of inside job... but perhaps only because i really haven't looked into the event much at all.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: another 911 conspiracy article [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2302693 - 02/04/04 11:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Dude, use the search. Go to shroomery.org/archives, search the archives of this forum.

A few months after 9-11, Rono cut and pasted a long, long article from some nut job who listed everything in your post and more. I spent several hours debunking the points. There were over eighty of them.

After I had done that, I found a link -- whatdidn'treallyhappen.com -- which had already done what I did, only much more thoroughly and with many more links than I provided. There are even more out there now than whatdidn'treallyhappen.com who do an even better job.

Because of this, there is no way I'm going to rebut all that gibberish again, then have to do the same thing next month, and the month after that ad infinitum.

If you really are interested in facts rather than in archly phrased, poorly researched, sophomorically sarcastic screeds, spend the same amount of time with a good search engine that you spent reading that birdcage liner.

pinky


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleTrueBrode
Stranger

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 287
Re: another 911 conspiracy article [Re: Phred]
    #2305016 - 02/05/04 03:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

That site is complete nonsensical tripe, just like the report from the 911 commission. If you read anything without your pre-conceived notions, you would be able to see that all that site does is back-peddle and list technicalities of the situation to make it appear as if they "debunked" something, whereas they really just give another detail and say "the 911 conspiracy theorists are idiots."

What was the name of the thread that has the "debunked" 80 points?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: another 911 conspiracy article [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2310906 - 02/07/04 05:06 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

TrueBrode writes:

If you read anything without your pre-conceived notions, you would be able to see that all that site does is back-peddle and list technicalities of the situation to make it appear as if they "debunked" something, whereas they really just give another detail and say "the 911 conspiracy theorists are idiots."

Incorrect.

They refute convincingly -- often from multiple sources -- the errors, inaccuracies, exaggerations and outright fabrications that have been put forward by people too lazy to check facts. As I pointed out above, there are many other sites which have done the same. Hell, I was able to shoot down over half the points with no research at all -- just logic, common sense, and common knowledge.

What was the name of the thread that has the "debunked" 80 points?

Look at the number of posts under my name. A bit over 3000. Well, guess what? Roughly 3000 of them were made in this forum. I rarely post anywhere else. My memory may be better than average, but I don't pretend to be able to remember the title of each thread I reply to.

Use the search function, or check the archives for fall of 2001 or winter of 2002. The thread was started by Rono. Maybe he can remember the title of it.

Here's a search tip -- type +whatdidn'treallyhappen.com and +pinky. I'm pretty sure that somewhere in that same thread I mentioned whatdidn'treallyhappen.com.

pinky


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinelark
Stranger

Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 11
Last seen: 10 months, 27 days
Re: another 911 conspiracy article [Re: Learyfan] * 1
    #21105698 - 01/12/15 04:28 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Was an inside job.... There were three buildings that fell in NYC. But we only hear of two. The kicker is it was on the news then the two big towers fell and building #7 was never talked again


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
Re: another 911 conspiracy article [Re: lark]
    #21106848 - 01/12/15 12:19 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

:banbanban:


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Amazon Shop for: Jimi Hendrix

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* (Full Article)Pentagon Preparing For War With The Enemy: Russia Mr.Al 666 4 05/19/09 09:53 AM
by Prisoner#1
* UK members - Channel 4 9pm - The 911 Conspiracy Theories Revelation 302 1 09/09/04 03:29 PM
by GazzBut
* Architects & engineers for 911 truth
( 1 2 all )
Aldous 2,424 26 06/05/07 04:30 PM
by FrenchSocialist
* Government's 911 Coverup Falling Apart MAIA 1,135 15 12/23/03 03:22 PM
by Adden
* poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories...
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
Annapurna1
8,134 147 07/04/06 12:05 AM
by David_vs_Goliath
* Top 500 911 Questions usefulidiot 1,984 15 05/18/05 03:00 PM
by Aldous
* New 911 Truth Documentary Premieres In CA usefulidiot 850 8 04/07/05 03:23 PM
by Rose
* Fahrenheit 911
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
Urb 11,002 122 06/05/05 08:19 PM
by Rose

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
2,084 topic views. 1 members, 1 guests and 8 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Azarius
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.172 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 14 queries.