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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17406985 -

JoieDeVivre said:
Prisoner#1 said:
33,000 traffic fatalities every year

ban the cars because cars kill

the government hasnt killed anyone int he wars, it was guns that did the killing


And to drive a car you need a license and a physical. Cars are regulated just like guns should be.



you have obviously never tried to purchase a firearm before.

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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: Lynnch] * 1
    #17406987 -

Lynnch said:
This is so stupid.

20 dead children is the only statistic that matters. How do we stop that from happening again?

If a thumbprint scanner would have saved those lives 'responsible' gun owners should be jumping at the chance, no matter the cast, to save those lives, because all of their 'protection' sure didn't.



So you can add a fingerprint scanner to all news guns, what do you do with the hundreds of millions of guns that already exist?

And on another note, it isn't the gun who killed all those children/adults it was the deranged 20 year old kid that did


--------------------
The countdown to the break up of the euro has officially begun.

A great financial crisis is going to erupt in Europe, and it is going to shake the world to the core.

If you were frightened by what happened back in 2008, then you are going to be absolutely horrified by what is coming next.

"You throw the sand against the wind
And the wind blows it back again."
- William Blake

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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #17406989 -

Prisoner#1 said:
it's good that you and joie live in a fantasy world where biometrics and DNA
encoded firearms exists. THE GUN ISNT THE KILLER, A DISTURBED PERSON WAS


A disturbed person who used a stolen gun. What about suggesting using fingerprint scanners is so objectionable to you? How does that "blame the gun"? In my eyes it's blaming the killer and keeping rightfully purchased firearms out of the hands of criminals.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: Shill] * 1
    #17407001 -

Shill said:
So you can add a fingerprint scanner to all news guns, what do you do with the hundreds of millions of guns that already exist?


I don't know. But at least I'm trying to come up with something instead of just shrugging it off.

Quote:
And on another note, it isn't the gun who killed all those children/adults it was the deranged 20 year old kid that did


REALLY?! I THOUGHT IT WAS A DISEMBODIED GUN FLOATING THROUGH THE AIR THAT KILLED THOSE KIDS, MY MISTAKE. :rolleyes: Give me a fucking break, don't you guys get tired of repeating the same shit over and over?

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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17407003 -

Joie,  this is a pointless exercise. The gun freaks will say and do anything to keep their toys. If you make a valid point with honest data, they just make pointless analogies like somehow the 2nd amendment has anything to do with breathing, or your sourced data is sourceless or isn't credible.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: Lynnch]
    #17407013 -

Lynnch said:
Shill said:
So you can add a fingerprint scanner to all news guns, what do you do with the hundreds of millions of guns that already exist?


I don't know. But at least I'm trying to come up with something instead of just shrugging it off.

Quote:
And on another note, it isn't the gun who killed all those children/adults it was the deranged 20 year old kid that did


REALLY?! I THOUGHT IT WAS A DISEMBODIED GUN FLOATING THROUGH THE AIR THAT KILLED THOSE KIDS, MY MISTAKE. :rolleyes: Give me a fucking break, don't you guys get tired of repeating the same shit over and over?


Same can be said to Joie and koods


--------------------
The countdown to the break up of the euro has officially begun.

A great financial crisis is going to erupt in Europe, and it is going to shake the world to the core.

If you were frightened by what happened back in 2008, then you are going to be absolutely horrified by what is coming next.

"You throw the sand against the wind
And the wind blows it back again."
- William Blake

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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17407014 -

JoieDeVivre said:
Prisoner#1 said:
would be criminals... now we're delving into thought crimes, that's great,
we have the prison industrial complex invading the schools and now we're
going after though crime

I thought you were a progressive, shouldnt that mean you oppose the Orwellian
vision of government?


Is it really Orwellian to offer someone who is mentally ill psychiatric help?


where's this psychiatric help at? the feds cut funding for state run
psychiatric facilities which resulted in them closing, of course this kid's
mother was wealthy but she chose not to see that he son was mentally ill so
she didnt use her $250k+/yr alimony payments to get him any help. she didnt
buy a safe to store the guns away from her mentally ill son

so where did the system fail, he didnt buy the guns he used so he didnt go
through the checks that I go through when I buy a gun, how would the psych
eval have helped here?


Quote:
This isn't about the government, this is about mental health issues. I'm not saying we're going after criminals for their crimes before they commit them but rather saying that if we make help available to those who would otherwise go on a shooting spree maybe we can stop it before it occurs and improve their lives as well as protecting potential victims.


it's exactly about government since you personally cant mandate anything you're suggesting, how else would it be implemented without government?


Quote:
Quote:
coincidentally, an 8yo cant walk into a gun store and buy a gun and bullets

now why is alcohol not to blame for death and the drinker is and here we are
with guns being blamed for deaths as opposed to the shooter?


Who here is blaming the gun? It seems like you're the only one suggesting that. I'm saying that guns are half the equation, just like alcohol is half the equation when it comes to alcohol related deaths.


so why not further restrict cars and alcohol and chainsaws and anything else
that can cause harm, why not have biometrics on bottles of vodka, what stops
a mentally ill man from getting drunk and killing people in a car by driving
it into a crowd?

we need psych evals and biometric finger scanners for booze and cars because
they kill more people than guns do

Quote:
Quote:
since when is a physical required? CDL, yes. a class C, no.


Maybe not when you were a young'un but a physical is required now.



mind showing me that one since you're again making a claim of this nature


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17407024 -

I still think bringing  back institutionalization makes sense here.

Hell to lock up a crazy person they have to commit a crime and then anyway they just send them to jail or to a mental ward for 72 hours( most cases have to be voluntary) .

Lets face some hard facts here not every one should be roaming the streets and I would rather lock these guys up in more human conditions then prisons then have them shoot up malls schools ect.

Oh yeah and make sure they dont breed.

Maybe the way they do gun shows the cash and carry thing may be flawed but he didnt obtain the fire arms that way did he.

Also you can do far more damage bump firing a shot gun  at under 50 meters then an assault rifle. 


--------------------
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


Edited by trekie (12/17/12 01:07 PM)

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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: koods]
    #17407032 -

koods said:
Joie,  this is a pointless exercise. The gun freaks will say and do anything to keep their toys. If you make a valid point with honest data, they just make pointless analogies like somehow the 2nd amendment has anything to do with breathing, or your sourced data is sourceless or isn't credible.



"ban anything not protected by the 2nd amendment"

As passed by Congress
Quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.




breathing isnt covered, ARMS is covered

protected by the second amendment

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/arms

Quote:
1. A weapon, especially a firearm: troops bearing arms; ICBMs, bombs, and other nuclear arms.
2. A branch of a military force: infantry, armor, and other combat arms.
3. arms
a. Warfare: a call to arms against the invaders.
b. Military service: several million volunteers under arms; the profession of arms.
4. arms
a. Heraldry Bearings.
b. Insignia, as of a state, an official, a family, or an organization.
v. armed, arm·ing, arms
v.intr.
1. To supply or equip oneself with weaponry.
2. To prepare oneself for warfare or conflict.
v.tr.
1. To equip with weapons: armed themselves with loaded pistols; arm a missile with a warhead; arm a nation for war.
2. To equip with what is needed for effective action: tax advisers who were armed with the latest forms.
3. To provide with something that strengthens or protects: a space reentry vehicle that was armed with a ceramic shield.
4. To prepare (a weapon) for use or operation, as by releasing a safety device.



--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: koods]
    #17407044 -

Hey Pris, did you notice the second amendment mentions regulation? :lol:


koods said:
Joie,  this is a pointless exercise. The gun freaks will say and do anything to keep their toys. If you make a valid point with honest data, they just make pointless analogies like somehow the 2nd amendment has anything to do with breathing, or your sourced data is sourceless or isn't credible.


Unfortunately, I believe you're correct.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: trekie] * 1
    #17407049 -

trekie said:
I still think bringing  back institutionalization makes sense here.

Hell to lock up a crazy person they have to commit a crime and then anyway they just send them to jail or to a mental ward for 72 hours( most cases have to be voluntary) .

Lets face some hard facts here not every one should be roaming the streets and I would rather lock these guys up in more human conditions then prisons then have them shoot up malls schools ect.

Oh yeah and make sure they dont breed.

Maybe the way they do gun shows the cash and carry thing may be flawed but he didnt obtain the fire arms that way did he.

Also you can do far more damage bump firing a shot gun  at under 50 meters then an assault rifle. 


Jesus, you want to lock up people who haven't committed any crime, and force sterilize them. Just to protect the freedom to own any weapon you want. If gun ownership is about freedom, you need to think honestly about what you suggest.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #17407078 -

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Quote:
since when is a physical required? CDL, yes. a class C, no.


Maybe not when you were a young'un but a physical is required now.



mind showing me that one since you're again making a claim of this nature


I don't know about a physical, but the way different classes of automobile are regulated and restricted different ways is a good analogy for guns I think.  People are not allowed to drive large autos without extensive testing for competency and mental stability.  All liscences are valid only as long as the operator follows the rules and remains accountable for the potential damage caused by unsafe driving.  Gun control should work in a similar way. 

This means that some people's right to drive will be limited, but it is for the good of everyone.  People will still steal cars and drive drunk, but because the majority of cars are easy to track and verify ownership, it is much easier to single out those breaking the rules and locate the people who commit crimes using cars.

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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: koods]
    #17407098 -

I would want to do that to protect my children and my family not my gun rights :dealwithit:


By all accounts the kid her the guy in Colorado  should have not been walking among us.  When even there own family admits there is something wrong. What are we to do with these people wait till they kill someone and get out in a few years dont take there meds and do it again.

Fuck that  I want to go back to a simpler time  when we just locked these guys away and castrated them

Dont recall so many mass shootings during the 1920's

Seemed to work pretty well

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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: trekie]
    #17407103 -

The biggest mass murder in US history was in 1927.

You really want to lock people up and castrate them for something they can't control rather than trying to solve the problem and help them live normal lives? So that's okay but taking away gun rights isn't? :confused:


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17407118 -

Well what would you suggest? Cause letting people like this roam free is working so well.:cookiemonster:


Next time you see a homeless guy trying to push you off a subway platform give him a hug and a rainbow.

I think giving these people care and making sure they cant contaminate the gene pool  any more is far more compassionate then  throwing them in jail and releasing them to homelessness and then back to jail.


--------------------
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17407123 -

Prisoner#1 said:
koods said:
Joie,  this is a pointless exercise. The gun freaks will say and do anything to keep their toys. If you make a valid point with honest data, they just make pointless analogies like somehow the 2nd amendment has anything to do with breathing, or your sourced data is sourceless or isn't credible.



"ban anything not protected by the 2nd amendment"

As passed by Congress
Quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.




breathing isnt covered, ARMS is covered

protected by the second amendment

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/arms

Quote:
1. A weapon, especially a firearm: troops bearing arms; ICBMs, bombs, and other nuclear arms.
2. A branch of a military force: infantry, armor, and other combat arms.
3. arms
a. Warfare: a call to arms against the invaders.
b. Military service: several million volunteers under arms; the profession of arms.
4. arms
a. Heraldry Bearings.
b. Insignia, as of a state, an official, a family, or an organization.
v. armed, arm�ing, arms
v.intr.
1. To supply or equip oneself with weaponry.
2. To prepare oneself for warfare or conflict.
v.tr.
1. To equip with weapons: armed themselves with loaded pistols; arm a missile with a warhead; arm a nation for war.
2. To equip with what is needed for effective action: tax advisers who were armed with the latest forms.
3. To provide with something that strengthens or protects: a space reentry vehicle that was armed with a ceramic shield.
4. To prepare (a weapon) for use or operation, as by releasing a safety device.



Well, that list is just misinformed opinion. I have repeatedly suggested you read heller, which is the only opinion that matters. Like it or not, the free dictionary doesn't define the bredth of the 2nd amendment, the Supreme Court does. Here is the heller opinion. It is 157 pages long. If you want to really understand what you are talking about, read the whole thing. http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf

Here are the relevant parts that show how ridiculous that list of yours is:
Quote:
...We therefore read Miller to say only that the Second Amendment does not protect those weapons not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes, such as short-barreled shotguns. That accords with the historical understanding of the scope of the right, see Part III, infra..
...
Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts rou- tinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152–153; Abbott 333. For exam- ple, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489–490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students’ Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884). Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws impos- ing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.

We also recognize another important limitation on the
right to keep and carry arms. Miller said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those “in common use at the time.” 307 U. S., at 179. We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradi- tion of prohibiting the carrying of “dangerous and unusual weapons.” See 4 Blackstone 148–149 (1769); 3 B. Wilson, Works of the Honourable James Wilson 79 (1804); J. Dunlap, The New-York Justice 8 (1815); C. Humphreys, A Compendium of the Common Law in Force in Kentucky 482 (1822); 1 W. Russell, A Treatise on Crimes and Indict- able Misdemeanors 271–272 (1831); H. Stephen, Summary of the Criminal Law 48 (1840); E. Lewis, An Abridgment of the Criminal Law of the United States 64 (1847); F. Wharton, A Treatise on the Criminal Law of the United States 726 (1852). See also State v. Langford, 10 N. C. 381, 383–384 (1824); O’Neill v. State, 16 Ala. 65, 67 (1849); English v. State, 35 Tex. 473, 476 (1871); State v. Lanier, 71 N. C. 288, 289 (1874).
It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers tanks. But the fact that modern developments have lim- ited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.



--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: trekie] * 2
    #17407139 -

trekie said:
Well what would you suggest? Cause letting people like this roam free is working so well.:cookiemonster:


Next time you see a homeless guy trying to push you off a subway platform give him a hug and a rainbow.

I think giving these people care and making sure they cant contaminate the gene pool  any more is far more compassionate then  throwing them in jail and releasing them to homelessness and then back to jail.


I suggest spreading mental health awareness and proper treatment as well as advancing our understanding of the brain. Locking someone up isn't the same thing as giving them proper care and the gene pool is plenty contaminated already. Should anyone with a disease be exempt from reproduction? Why is this infringement upon freedom okay but gun safety measures are not?

Asylums were closed because they weren't providing proper care and the patients weren't getting better and people were thrown in them and locked up for years just because they were depressed, gay or otherwise a little bizarre. Now that we know and area learning more about the brain we can provide better care but opening asylums back up isn't the answer.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.


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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17407158 -

Pris, still waiting for the source of your UK claim.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #17407163 -

Hate to break it to you but I worked as an EMT and spent the better part of a year transporting these guys.

Im not saying all mental illness but violent fucks who meds dont seem to work.
There are lots of people who are plan and simple untreatable and for the rest of societies sake need to be locked away.

Did I say gay or people who were suicidal no. All these spree shooters have many things in common and its not normal depression :picard:


--------------------
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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Re: Elementary school shooting in connecticut two shooters [Re: koods] * 1
    #17407165 -

Maybe it should just start in the home, with parents that actually care about the children that they brought into this world, better parenting skills, teach love to the children, not hate and violence, perhaps all of these shoot em up video games have to do with at least part of the blame.
My point is that kids, these days, are not cared for, not taught how to love, and are force fed violence with most of the TV shows and movies that are out today.
Ban TV?????
Ban video games?
We could ban everything and just go back to hunting with clubs and growing our own food and people would still find a way to kill if that is what they choose to do.
Humans were not always a peaceful animal, We were hunters and killers long before the laws were made and in some, it is still an instinct.
So do what you want with guns, the violence will always remain.


--------------------
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