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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: elax420] * 1
    #17215174 -

elax420 said:
Ive done a shit load of heroin in my life time that shit is not good for you and if you think it is you are delusional.


Nobody's said that heroin's good for you.  What we are saying is that pure heroin/opiates are healthier than alcohol, which is a fact.

elax420 said:
Have fun getting your medical heroin boys because what your getting on the street has been cut to shit and if you are trying to say street heroin is safer than Alcohol you are fucking stupid.


Again, nobody's said that street heroin is safer than alcohol.  You can, however, find pure, pharmaceutical-grade oxycodone, hydrocodone, morphine, methadone, oxymorphone, and hydromorphone on the street, all of which when taken orally and in moderate dosages are, again, much healthier than alcohol.

elax420 said:
God you cant talk with you guys some times. "all drugs are perfectly safe except for legal ones" Alcohol is a sin Heroin is a stigmatized unfairly.


Are you reading some alternate-universe version of this thread?  Nobody's said that all drugs are safe except for legal ones and nobody's called drinking alcohol a sin.  Instead of setting up fallacious strawmen why don't you read some medical literature about the toxicity of opiates compared to alcohol?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: deCypher]
    #17215214 -

Wow, Decypher is posting again.  Thought you were gone. Meaning I like your wisdom.


--------------------

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: deCypher]
    #17215224 -

deCypher said:
elax420 said:
Ive done a shit load of heroin in my life time that shit is not good for you and if you think it is you are delusional.


Nobody's said that heroin's good for you.  What we are saying is that pure heroin/opiates are healthier than alcohol, which is a fact.

elax420 said:
Have fun getting your medical heroin boys because what your getting on the street has been cut to shit and if you are trying to say street heroin is safer than Alcohol you are fucking stupid.


Again, nobody's said that street heroin is safer than alcohol.  You can, however, find pure, pharmaceutical-grade oxycodone, hydrocodone, morphine, methadone, oxymorphone, and hydromorphone on the street, all of which when taken orally and in moderate dosages are, again, much healthier than alcohol.

elax420 said:
God you cant talk with you guys some times. "all drugs are perfectly safe except for legal ones" Alcohol is a sin Heroin is a stigmatized unfairly.


Are you reading some alternate-universe version of this thread?  Nobody's said that all drugs are safe except for legal ones and nobody's called drinking alcohol a sin.  Instead of setting up fallacious strawmen why don't you read some medical literature about the toxicity of opiates compared to alcohol?


I highly doubt he is able to read medical literature, he seems to have no reading comprehension of a simple forum post.


--------------------
Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences
The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine
The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: deCypher]
    #17215238 -

deCypher said:
Nobody's said that heroin's good for you.  What we are saying is that pure heroin/opiates are healthier than alcohol, which is a fact.




And where did i dispute this???? Junkie life is a hell of alot worse for you than Alcoholic life.

Do you take everything you read as literal? Thats the vibe site puts off when anything is mentioned about tobacco or alcohol oh thats so unhealthy. Meth or Heroin-unfairly stigmatized by the media and masses.  Instead of spewing random irrelevant shit to make yourself look and feel smarter why don't you let someone have a god damned opinion and if you don't agree with it big fucking deal. The only reason i responded is cuz that one dude implied im an alcoholic.

Should've known hive mind contrarians would jump my shit.

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: deCypher]
    #17215284 -

deCypher said:
psi said:
Andrew Weil is awesome. Have you read The Natural Mind?


No, I haven't but I agree Weil's awesome.  What's it about?


Mostly it's about recreational drugs, and a recurring theme is how the placebo effect relates to drug use. Opiates and marijuana both get covered quite a bit. Weil apparently did one of the first controlled studies with marijuana on volunteers, and he talks a lot about the idea of marijuana being what he calls an 'active placebo.' In other words it has real effects, but in his view some of the perceived effects are actually learned responses to the drug's physiological effects. I'm not sure how much that part holds up with what is known about marijuana now but it's an interesting idea anyway.

"Health and Healing" is another book of his I really liked, it's basically a rundown of different schools of thought in "alternative medicine." He talks a lot about the placebo effect in that one too.

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: elax420]
    #17215286 -

elax420 said:
deCypher said:
Nobody's said that heroin's good for you.  What we are saying is that pure heroin/opiates are healthier than alcohol, which is a fact.




And where did i dispute this???? Junkie life is a hell of alot worse for you than Alcoholic life.



Should've known hive mind contrarians would jump my shit.


How about here:

elax420 said:
You contradicted yourself in your own post bro :huxleyfacepalm:.

Perfectly healthy really? No damage to brain synapses or liver problems. Oh ya you would have no way of knowing that.
Im not much of a drinker but since your going to take that low blow ill take one as well. My guess is you a junkie trying to justify your personal opiate use. Some strong junkie logic right thurr :rofl:

Been down that road bro.

Alcohol is infinitely better for you than heroin but have fun getting that across to a junkie.


And here:

elax420 said:
Thats what I am saying. Opiates are detrimental to your health by nature of the substance.



And here: (Shall I keep quoting you?)


elax420 said:
If that were true why is it that morphine is harmful?


PS: (It is not harmful... you can overdose on it but that doesn't mean its harmful).

Quote:
Do you take everything you read as literal? Thats the vibe site puts off when anything is mentioned about tobacco or alcohol oh thats so unhealthy. Meth or Heroin-unfairly stigmatized by the media and masses.  Instead of spewing random irrelevant shit to make yourself look and feel smarter why don't you let someone have a god damned opinion and if you don't agree with it big fucking deal. The only reason i responded is cuz that one dude implied im an alcoholic.



Alcohol and tobacco are worse than methamphetamine and opiates. It isn't my own personal opinion but the pharmacology of the drug. Read up on some medical literature if you don't believe it.
:sorry: :dumbass:


--------------------
Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences
The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine
The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One

Edited by Cyclohexylamine (11/13/12 10:50 PM)

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: elax420]
    #17215300 -

I was a happy, functioning H addict. I was an asshole alcoholic, but still functioning. But please continue...:popcorn: . . . :peace:


--------------------

"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: Cyclohexylamine] * 1
    #17215316 -

Alcohol is healthier than heroin only in context.

If you gave a guy living on a desert island a lifetime supply of either alcohol or clean, titrated heroin, he would be infinitely better off with the heroin and he would be discovered by rescuers in much better condition.

That said, if you gave a guy living in the city a lifetime addiction to either alcohol or heroin, he would be better off with alcohol addiction no doubt.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #17215327 -

Dude you need to read on some "medical literature"(can you get more pretentious?) if you think the drugs aren't harmful in anyway.

Opiates ARE detrimental to ones health.

I never fucking said Medical grade Opiates are safer than alcohol.

If you think street meth and street heroin are safer than regulated alcohol and tobacco jesus christ i don't even know what to say.

and don't say medical grade because thats not what this is about and 99% of users have no access to medical grade:sploosh:

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: vinsue]
    #17215334 -

vinsue said:
I was a happy, functioning H addict. I was an asshole alcoholic, but still functioning. But please continue...:popcorn: . . . :peace:


Really i was a fucking dick H addict. I've never been an alcoholic but I've met some bad ones.

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: elax420] * 2
    #17215352 -

elax420 said:
Dude you need to read on some "medical literature"(can you get more pretentious?) if you think the drugs aren't harmful in anyway.

Opiates ARE detrimental to ones health.

I never fucking said Medical grade Opiates are safer than alcohol.

If you think street meth and street heroin are safer than regulated alcohol and tobacco jesus christ i don't even know what to say.

and don't say medical grade because thats not what this is about and 99% of users have no access to medical grade:sploosh:


No one is arguing about street quality drugs.
As another user pointed out, on the street there is tons of pure opiates (oxycodone, hydrocodone, morphine, etc). Only heroin comes as a powder and is cut.
Painkillers, the #1 abused opiate, are medical grade.

Stop spewing :bs:

PS. You keep contradicting yourself. I believe you are a troll. I don't think anyone can be this willfully ignorant.
Quote:
I never fucking said Medical grade Opiates are safer than alcohol.


We know - you said alcohol was safer than opiates, in all the sections I quoted you in above.


--------------------
Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences
The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine
The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One

Edited by Cyclohexylamine (11/13/12 10:56 PM)

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: elax420]
    #17215354 -

Hive mind contrarians, LOL.

BlindSophist said:
That said, if you gave a guy living in the city a lifetime addiction to either alcohol or heroin, he would be better off with alcohol addiction no doubt.


Eh, I'm not so sure. I've had addictions to both alcohol and opiates and my health was much, much worse when I was on the booze compared to the dope: I gained almost fifty pounds, entered into a soul-crushing depression, and just generally felt like shit.  On the other hand, I blew thousands upon thousands of dollars on dope whereas I was spending about eight dollars a day on forty ounces of malt liquor.  Is it better to have your health and no money or to be dying of cirrhosis/Korsakoff's and still have your dollar bills?  Also, you can't work while you're drunk out of your gourd.  I worked ten hours a day making ~50K a year while on heroin.  Take that as you will.  :shrug:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #17215376 -

tymoteusz3 said:
elax420 said:
Dude you need to read on some "medical literature"(can you get more pretentious?) if you think the drugs aren't harmful in anyway.

Opiates ARE detrimental to ones health.

I never fucking said Medical grade Opiates are safer than alcohol.

If you think street meth and street heroin are safer than regulated alcohol and tobacco jesus christ i don't even know what to say.

and don't say medical grade because thats not what this is about and 99% of users have no access to medical grade:sploosh:


No one is arguing about street quality drugs.
As another user pointed out, on the street there is tons of pure opiates (oxycodone, hydrocodone, morphine, etc). Only heroin comes as a powder and is cut.
Painkillers, the #1 abused opiate, are medical grade.

Stop spewing :bs:


Heroin doesn't only come as a powder you fucking nub.
Maybe you should stop spewing bullshit.

I was talking about heroin specifically where most opiate addictions end up anyway.

Where the fuck does one get Pharmaceutical grade meth that shit is locked down. jesus dude.....


To the other dude how did you work through WDs? I didnt have the willpower to do shit less i was high.

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: elax420]
    #17215405 -

elax420 said:
Heroin doesn't only come as a powder you fucking nub.
Maybe you should stop spewing bullshit.

I was talking about heroin specifically where most opiate addictions end up anyway.

Where the fuck does one get Pharmaceutical grade meth that shit is locked down. jesus dude......


You cannot use opiates, as in - all opiates, and heroin interchangeably and then say you only meant heroin. You specifically said that opiates are detrimental to your health (see my above post with a list of everything you said, quoted for reference if you have 'forgotten' you said that), more so than ethanol. You did not specify you were talking about the cuts in drugs, or the lifestyle, but simply the drug was pharmacologically worse than ethanol.

Pharmaceutical grade meth can be easily gotten (it is called desoxyn). It can also be quite easily made by anyone who understands a little chemistry.


--------------------
Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences
The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine
The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One

Edited by Cyclohexylamine (11/13/12 11:03 PM)

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: elax420]
    #17215418 -

tymoteusz3 said:
No one is arguing about street quality drugs.
As another user pointed out, on the street there is tons of pure opiates (oxycodone, hydrocodone, morphine, etc). Only heroin comes as a powder and is cut.
Painkillers, the #1 abused opiate, are medical grade.


Yeah... just playing the percentages, the majority of abused opiates are healthier than booze.

elax420 said:
To the other dude how did you work through WDs? I didnt have the willpower to do shit less i was high.


I was making enough so that I almost never was sick.  If for some reason I ended using more than I had planned or couldn't afford to fix then I just struggled through and did my job even if I felt like shit because I had to make that $.  :shrug:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol plainsong"? [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #17215476 -

Who GIVES A FUCK?  IT'S all bad for you, as is the chemicals you breathe in the air you breathe, and the chemicals in your food to preserve them to sell to you.  The topic is alcohol poisening which I've only experienced once when on lsd.  Heroin with drawl is so different.  Why is this even a conversation? 

Long term effects?  How you nutrition and rehydrate your body.  A guy that would use wheat grass after using heroin.  Just learn your body, it can regenerate given the right means IMO and what I've researched.


--------------------

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: deCypher]
    #17215565 -

deCypher said:
Hive mind contrarians, LOL.


I also thought this was interesting. :lol:

deCypher said:
BlindSophist said:
That said, if you gave a guy living in the city a lifetime addiction to either alcohol or heroin, he would be better off with alcohol addiction no doubt.


Eh, I'm not so sure. I've had addictions to both alcohol and opiates and my health was much, much worse when I was on the booze compared to the dope: I gained almost fifty pounds, entered into a soul-crushing depression, and just generally felt like shit.  On the other hand, I blew thousands upon thousands of dollars on dope whereas I was spending about eight dollars a day on forty ounces of malt liquor.  Is it better to have your health and no money or to be dying of cirrhosis/Korsakoff's and still have your dollar bills?  Also, you can't work while you're drunk out of your gourd.  I worked ten hours a day making ~50K a year while on heroin.  Take that as you will.  :shrug:


I guess it depends on who you are. If you're less employable or you have untrustworthy contacts, heroin is a lot more dangerous.

In general though I agree with and was defending the view that heroin is better for you than alcohol. I think society would probably be more peaceful and a great deal more tolerable if we replaced our collective addiction to alcohol with one to heroin.

It's a dangerous idea, though. Without the soul-crushing despair of forced abstinence every morning, how would an alcohol-free society ever motivate its worker bees to get out and do shit they hate in pursuit of some lofty future of pure drunkenness?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #17215834 -

Reading this thread is giving me the :laugh2:

Sadly, I'd say about 60% of my friends are by some school book definition "alcoholics".  In the sense that they drink for the purpose of getting drunk and do so more than one time per week.  These people are good people, have their lives in order, show up for work as scheduled, pay bills, etc.

On the other hand, I USED to have friends who becomes opiate junkies.  Those people started stealing from friends, started being boring as fuck to be around, lost all types of weight as their bodies went through hell... Basically changed their entire lives for the worse.

I agree alcohol is miserable for your body, but I feel like anyone who lives on the same planet as I, has to see the same things.  Alcohol abuse can get ugly, no doubt, but opiate abuse gets PATHETIC, and fucking FAST.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: Adolin]
    #17215864 -

Because overdose has a negative connotation associated with drugs.

Poisoning insinuates that the person has not consumed so much of a drug, thereby not breaking any societal taboo.

"Oh, he just had way too much to drink, close call on alcohol poisoning."

"He overdosed on cocaine."

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Re: Why do people say "alcohol poinsong"? [Re: Shpongle1]
    #17215873 -

Shpongle1 said:
Reading this thread is giving me the :laugh2:

Sadly, I'd say about 60% of my friends are by some school book definition "alcoholics".  In the sense that they drink for the purpose of getting drunk and do so more than one time per week.  These people are good people, have their lives in order, show up for work as scheduled, pay bills, etc.

On the other hand, I USED to have friends who becomes opiate junkies.  Those people started stealing from friends, started being boring as fuck to be around, lost all types of weight as their bodies went through hell... Basically changed their entire lives for the worse.

I agree alcohol is miserable for your body, but I feel like anyone who lives on the same planet as I, has to see the same things.  Alcohol abuse can get ugly, no doubt, but opiate abuse gets PATHETIC, and fucking FAST.  Hope no one ever goes through the horseshit I've seen ex-friends deal with.


Opiates are more severely addictive, but that is where the list of cons ends. Alcohol has many.

If both were legally available and equally affordable, you'd never be able to pick out a junkie the way you've described. Only the alcoholics would continue to stick out like such a sore thumb as they already do.

Also, you don't know any alcoholics.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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