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OnlinegeokillsA
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Registered: 05/08/01
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Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: Yossarian]
    #2454321 - 03/20/04 02:52 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Yossarian said:
    I think people of Asian or American Indian ancestry have lower amounts of an enzyme that is involved in ethanol metabolism.  In the liver, ethanol is oxidized to form acetaldehyde, which gives you a hangover.  A second oxidation step converts acetaldehyde into acetic acid.

    This process takes place while you are drinking. If it didn't, your body would acummulate alcohol at a much faster rate.  This is why some people with liver problems get drunk very easily.


You are correct.  Many persons of asian decent are deficient in the alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme, resulting in a build up of the toxic acetaldehyde which is responsible for the flushing of their face and feeling sick sooner than those of us who can break that shit down with a quickness. :beer:


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··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
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OfflineKremlin
life in E minor
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Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: geokills]
    #2454343 - 03/20/04 02:57 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

hey you, get off the shroomery and start driving


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"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky


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Offlineummikko
sika joka eilenn? on pelkk?sika

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 1,222
Loc: Finland
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: Yossarian]
    #2454346 - 03/20/04 02:58 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Yep, that's how it goes. Acetaldehyde is converted to acetic acid by the enzyme acetaldehyde dehydrogenase. Some people have an abnormal gene for this enzyme, so they metabolize acetaldehyde more slowly. This means that they accumulate acetaldehyde if they drink much alcohol, so they get a sort of hangover-like feeling(poisoning) quite quickly. This gene is rare in western people, but about half of the people in China and Japan have it.

edit: damn, geo beat me to it :wink:


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"All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison and a remedy." -Paracelsius


Edited by ummikko (03/20/04 03:03 PM)


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OfflineYossarian
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Registered: 03/20/04
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Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: geokills]
    #2454355 - 03/20/04 02:59 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe that's why when I get drunk, the Indian comes out in me. :beer: :blush: :beer:


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Invisiblesakura
Aussie Expat

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 592
Loc: Japan
Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: ummikko]
    #2454363 - 03/20/04 03:02 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ummikko said:
Yep, that's how it goes. Acetaldehyde is converted to acetic acid by the enzyme acetaldehyde dehydrogenase. Some people have an abnormal gene for this enzyme, so they metabolize acetaldehyde more slowly. This means that they accumulate acetaldehyde if they drink much alcohol, so they get a sort of hangover-like feeling(poisoning) quite quickly. This gene is rare in western people, but about half of the people in China and Japan have it.




You seem to know a lot about this... Just curious, do you think my children (both girls) will be affected? (My wife can't drink at all... she has a stronger case than most Japanese)


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Shrooms aren't everyone's cup of tea... (Some folks just eat 'em)


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Offlineummikko
sika joka eilenn? on pelkk?sika

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 1,222
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Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: sakura]
    #2454395 - 03/20/04 03:11 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know enough about genetics to give you advice on this...sorry. The gene that is responsible for the enzyme is well known though, so I think it could be tested.


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"All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison and a remedy." -Paracelsius


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Offlinefilthysock
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Registered: 01/12/04
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Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: sakura]
    #2454406 - 03/20/04 03:15 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Kind of off-topic but do you get a hold of pot, shrooms and the like in Japan?


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!


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Invisiblesakura
Aussie Expat

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 592
Loc: Japan
Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: filthysock]
    #2454429 - 03/20/04 03:20 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

filthysock said:
Kind of off-topic but do you get a hold of pot, shrooms and the like in Japan?




With great difficulty...  the only pot I've seen in 18 months is about 1/4 gram my mate foung in Kyoto and gave to me...  Shrooms grow here in the Summer (P.Argentipes).

I drink lots of alcohol whenever we have a party and I have been making a nuisance of myself at various ethnobotanical websites...

(Got some MJ seeds germinating, now, though... :wink: )


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Shrooms aren't everyone's cup of tea... (Some folks just eat 'em)


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Offlinefilthysock
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Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: sakura]
    #2454449 - 03/20/04 03:24 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah weed would grow really good there I presume.


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Magic mushrooms are not addictive, the shroomery is!


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Invisiblesakura
Aussie Expat

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 592
Loc: Japan
Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: filthysock]
    #2454494 - 03/20/04 03:32 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

hoping...  very humid, mild temp range in late spring summer...  Gonna plant 'em on the south side of one of the mountains round here (there are shitloads of mountains and Japanese NEVER go off the 'official' path :wink: )


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Shrooms aren't everyone's cup of tea... (Some folks just eat 'em)


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OfflineFlux
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Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 309
Loc: The Shroomery... retard
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: ummikko]
    #2454546 - 03/20/04 03:45 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I don't know enough about genetics to give you advice on this...sorry. The gene that is responsible for the enzyme is well known though, so I think it could be tested.



You guys rock, I've been wondering what alcohol is converted into forever, don't they give serious alchoholic a that enzyeme or some other type of potentiater that makes them real sensitive to alchohol so they get sick after only one or two beers?


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Invisiblesakura
Aussie Expat

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 592
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Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: Flux]
    #2454564 - 03/20/04 03:49 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Antibuse... that's pretty much what it does.


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Shrooms aren't everyone's cup of tea... (Some folks just eat 'em)


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: sakura]
    #2454567 - 03/20/04 03:49 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

http://chemcases.com/alcohol/alc-06.htm
This may affect how they handle and act while drunk.


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Invisiblesakura
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Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 592
Loc: Japan
Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #2454605 - 03/20/04 04:00 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

This explains the 'Tomato Head Syndrome'...

A similar situation is found in the second step of ethanol metabolism, which is catalyzed by acetaldehyde dehydrogenase. This enzyme converts acetaldehyde to acetic acid, which is a normal metabolite in humans and hence is non toxic. The past use of Antabuse as a possible deterrent to drinking was based on the ability of Antabuse to inhibit the action of acetaldehyde dehydrogenase, thus slow down or stop the destruction of acetaldehyde. If one drank after taking Antabuse, the person got very ill. It turns out that certain individuals, again common in Asians, have a defective aldehyde dehydrogenase gene, ALDH2, in that it doesn?t metabolize acetaldehyde as rapidly as normal. Thus, a person who drinks too much builds up acetaldehyde in their system and feels bad or is sick. This manifests in Asians with the defected ALDH gene as a facial flush as they drink.

My wife is totally unable to drink alcohol... the smallest amount (3 sips of really nice chanpagne on our wedding night) made her VERY ill)


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Shrooms aren't everyone's cup of tea... (Some folks just eat 'em)


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Offline284_27
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Registered: 07/13/03
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Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: sakura]
    #2454643 - 03/20/04 04:12 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

On a similar vein David Whitmore a chemical engineer and assistant professor at the University of Georgia developed a expermental drug that reversed the effects of alcohol consumption. He combined three natural enzymes that metabolized alcohol into acetic acid . This was reported in the magazine Popular Science , page 22, in March of 1992 but since that time I have never seen any more reports of this development .


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"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
- Thomas Jefferson

Fly high and I will meet you there .
- Timothy Leary


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: 284_27]
    #2454717 - 03/20/04 04:40 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

acetic acid, just so you know, is vinnegar.
we can handle it in low doses, thats why pickled eggs are bar food. your body is already managing he vinnigar in those, so the alcohol metabolizes slower,
but then, its not the best buzz to be riding on the same alcohol express for to far down the track. reddening of he face, profuse sweating, see coprine poisoning. (ex, eating coprinus artimentarius mushrooms and drinking)


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Offlinebrowndustin
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Registered: 10/03/03
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Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: sakura]
    #2454719 - 03/20/04 04:41 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Haven't drank with any japanese people before, but I smoke up with them a couple times a month. It's AWESOME. :laugh:


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When the stress burns my brain it's like acid raindrops
maryjane is the only thing that makes the pain stop


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Offlinefilthysock
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Registered: 01/12/04
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Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: browndustin]
    #2454865 - 03/20/04 05:32 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Americanized japanese or...?


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OfflineVulture
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Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: filthysock]
    #2455002 - 03/20/04 06:17 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

yeah my dad take antibuse. He cant eat stuff with viniger or anything. Certain shaving stuff that has alcahol in it will burn the fuck out of his face. Has to be really carefull.


But pot can be found in field in certain parts of japan. You can go pick it and stuff. There is a head culture there but it would be hard to find. www.overgrow.com had a forum for other countried and there are some people from japan in there. Talk to them and you might have some more luck sakura.

Ever come across any LSD there? that would be wild to trip on LSD in tokyo!


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Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.


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Offlineshr00m
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Re: Why can't Japanese people handle alcohol...? [Re: Vulture]
    #2455318 - 03/20/04 08:10 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

hi im korean

hahah :P


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