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OfflineEgoMagickian
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Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 118
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Druggies
    #1701556 - 07/10/03 02:47 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Most of my friends (and myself) act fairly straightedge... no drugs/cigs/alcohol... the few that do imbibe generally stick to the more socially accepted lower circuit substances.

As I've been contemplating beginning to use entheogens, researching the topic has brought me closer to mainstream drug culture than I usually like. My distaste for "druggies" makes me a bit hesitant to meet people and leaves me wondering how to go about making friends with people I can connect with and vice-versa.

I guess what bothers me most is when people only want to see/practice one aspect of a thing.

For example, Leary saw his drug use as essentially spiritual, rather than medical/academic... which is why he did the things that led to his resignation from Harvard... but at the same time didn't discount the potential to use psychedelics in curing psychological disorders. Quite the opposite.

He pointed out in Politics of Ecstacy how most of the medical establishment wanted to say, "These substances should only be used in the proper medical settings by trained practitioners", while at the same time, any turned-on priests, etc, thought "These substances can only be used in the proper religious setting. Everything else is sacrilege."

While I haven't observed a great number of drug users, most of the ones I've seen (mostly in college, which may have something to do with it) seem to concentrate on one aspect: getting "fucked up"... these people I label "druggies" ;-)

Entheogens encompass all of these things and more... why limit ourselves? I thought this was about unlimiting our selves.

And while I don't see anything wrong with using psychedelics just for fun, I'm not really interested in the sets & settings I've been exposed to so far. I don't know how to go about meeting anyone different, though... especially in upstate NY. Why do I feel like this would be so much easier in California's Bay Area? ;-)

I suppose this could be mainly solitary, and that could be ok. I have one person on each coast who I would trust as guides/sitters (ex-druggies themselves)... but that sounds like it could get pretty lonely.

Any comments/insights/suggestions/questions/parallel experiences/criticisms/disagreements/musings?



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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
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Re: Druggies [Re: EgoMagickian]
    #1701569 - 07/10/03 02:56 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

ego: "My distaste for "druggies""

wow, you have a distaste for druggies? I have a distaste for ignorant generalizations/stereotypes, we should hang out sometime and watch TV.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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OfflineEgoMagickian
human

Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 118
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Druggies [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1701578 - 07/10/03 03:04 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I put the word in quotes because I defined it later. Or did you get that far into my post? It doesn't seem like you read it in its entirety.


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Druggies [Re: EgoMagickian]
    #1701586 - 07/10/03 03:14 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Whoops, i tried to post in here earlier, but it didnt work;

Grow your own and go solo. :wink: start from there and i imagine the whole experience would be more rewarding and your style.


--------------------
GO OUTSIDE.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Druggies [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1701590 - 07/10/03 03:16 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Just as you said, "I guess what bothers me most is when people only want to see/practice one aspect of a thing."
You have to take the good with the bad, you know? People use guns to hunt food, people use guns to kill people. People use drugs to "find" some "answers", people use drugs to "get fucked up".
I think the reason you are only seeing the druggies that get fucked up is because these substances are illegal. Someone who eats shrooms to pursue different spirtual ideas, etc., chances are, they are going to be smart enough to not let people know they are taking drugs. The kind of drug user you want to be, and that you want to meet aren't the type of drug user that revolve around taking drugs. You aren't going to find them out in the open, easily found, like the "druggies".
And, for as "correct" as "unlimiting yourselves by taking entheogens" may sound to you, it all depends on the person. That druggie girl over there might be taking drugs to unlimit herself. Society put a limit up that says "don't do drugs", and she is doing them, unlimiting herself from the constraints of society. Everyone has their own reason for doing whatever they are doing, part of "unlimiting ourselves", in the manner that you are speaking of, is realizing that everyone is different, everyone is correct, and to not impose your own views on other people, no matter how incorrect they sound. I think it will all make sense after you forget what it looks like when other people take drugs, take them yourself, and maybe then the new perspective will open up. But, then again, I'm just some crazy guy on the net that talks to much. Good luck, though, I hope you find it, too.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineEgoMagickian
human

Registered: 07/03/03
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Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Druggies [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1701618 - 07/10/03 03:35 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

You have to take the good with the bad, you know?

Of course. But I don't see what my druggie friends do as bad, just repetitive (and therefore eventually boring). I wouldn't intend to limit myself to only "serious" uses.

I think the reason you are only seeing the druggies that get fucked up is because these substances are illegal.

I think you're dead on there. With the exception that not all entheogens are illegal... but even those are looked down upon as "just more drugs". Damn, this is like pre-gay rights movement dating. Retire the gaydar, time to develop "drugdar".

I like your thoughts about unlimiting... but I'm still feeling a bit defensive as I read the bit about it "all mak[ing] sense" to me... as judgmental as my post apparently sounded to you folks, this really isn't about other people doing things the "wrong" way so much as how to find people doing them a different way.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Druggies [Re: EgoMagickian]
    #1701650 - 07/10/03 04:03 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

What I meant to mention, but failed to (right around the part about illegal drug, smart users hidden, blah blah), is that I have some suggestions on where to start looking. If you want to use the "druggies", hang out with them a bit, follow them around. Many have brothers, sisters, friends, parents, etc, that do drugs, but use them differently. As the common thread is the drugs themselves, follow it to the others. I'd also check out social gatherings that probably have a few of us among the crowd. If you can find some people playing hackey-sack, that's a sure bet. Walk up and ask if you can join (quite the friendly, fun, and muscle moving activity). Check out some spiritual, New Age, places, (I don't live in or ever really been to a city, but I assume these places exist), whatever the fuck they are. Um, find people at a rave, with the trance music blaring, that have dilated pupils, and aren't dancing to the music, they're just sort of absorbing the music. hehe
Anybody I've found came through the drug chain. They're aren't too much of us out there, anyways, at least in this forsaken country. Almost everyone of us in the board are us, so this, actually, would be Hot Spot #1.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineEgoMagickian
human

Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 118
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Druggies [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1701782 - 07/10/03 06:10 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah this place rocks. I've already been PM'ing with some other upstate users.

I don't think I have the necessary motor coordination for hackey sack ;-)

Perhaps sooner or later synchronicity will take over and I shouldn't even be worrying about this. <shrug>


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OfflineLOBO
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Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
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Re: Druggies [Re: EgoMagickian]
    #1701891 - 07/10/03 09:12 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

If you are planning the use of ethogens as a tool of self exploration, it is usually a solitary activity, unless you are lucky enough to have some one like minded to enter the journey with you.
In my case I also live in upstate NY, but I don?t really hang out with the "locals" I haven?t found any one yet like minded.
I trip very few times a year perhaps 3 and usually high dosage.
I am lucky to have a trip buddy that comes to my house for these occasions.
My usage of ethogens is purely self exploratory, I would not be caught dead doing them in a party, I don't condemn that activity to each there own, but is not my thing.
In terms of setting nature environment is the only way I will take them.
About meeting people, well that's a hard one I don?t believe if you live in CA would be any easier, is about you, you are surrounded by people like your self.
If you are feeling that your state of mind is changing and that your old friends no longer are in the same "wave length" as you are, sooner or later you will find some one.
Is like a law of attraction.
Unfortunately loneliness comes hand and hand with self discovery.


--------------------


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Druggies [Re: LOBO]
    #1701946 - 07/10/03 10:27 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with fireworks about this "I guess what bothers me most is when people only want to see/practice one aspect of a thing". There are many ways to experience psychedelics, i know people that only try them in parties, others every time they can ("druggies" like you say, may fit in this), only few have used or discovered the spiritual and gnostic meaning of psychedelics.
I don't do parties but i try psychedelics when i can and most important, when i want to but i find the spiritual part the most appealing. I talk with people and tell them to try a more spiritual experience, alone in nature or with few good friends, some listen but mostly they don't. What i know is, there are many people doing it for years that never found any interest to know themselves a little better.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


Edited by MAIA (07/10/03 11:20 AM)


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Druggies [Re: MAIA]
    #1702031 - 07/10/03 11:18 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I am currently walking out of my drug use after a pretty mind-shattering mushroom experience. (i have been a pretty steady pothead / tripper for a few years now)

My main reason really is that I think I should have the mental freedom to do so, and I want to prove it to myself. I want to choose to get high, I don't want to crave it.

I need alot more subtlety in my life anyways. Something about being a pothead and a casuall tripper, just makes life (or my behavior in life) so predictable. (personally speaking) I miss the mystery. The other little places in life that you become to busy to notice if your brain patterns are locked into an elevator routine. Make sense?

Also I really need to get some shit straight in terms of my future survival, and don't have room to be getting fucked up right now. It definately hinders your motivation for certain things.
I also realize I have a wandering (and sometimes rollercoaster) mind and coping with reality sober is tricky enough, I don't want to deal with the paradigm shifts.

EgoMagikian, I wouldn't worry about it. You definately sound like you know where you want to go, you just have to wait and things should fall into place.

I know what you mean, though.

Peace


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Druggies [Re: Grav]
    #1702133 - 07/10/03 12:21 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Pot use can be an obstacle when you need to get a lot of things done.
And heavy pot use can temporarily fuck with your head.

So use it wisely.


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
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Re: Druggies [Re: Grav]
    #1702171 - 07/10/03 12:36 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

the distinction this guy is talking about is real, it's just poorly defined. enlightenment/drug fiend duality is not appropriate here - in every guru there is some hedonist, in every meth addict there is a philosopher.

it's just how go from there- however you got to the point of dosing, whatever motivation- that matters. this hasn't been worked out yet.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Druggies [Re: EgoMagickian]
    #1702172 - 07/10/03 12:37 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

EgoMagickian said:
I don't think I have the necessary motor coordination for hackey sack ;-)




Hell, pick up the necessary motor coordination by playing hackey sack, man. Everything's a skill to be learned. That's what I love about this.
Peace, and good luck.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMalachi
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Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
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Re: Druggies [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1702189 - 07/10/03 12:45 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

it's all about learning new things. I'm trying to learn how to break dance and how to actually liquid pop good.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


Edited by Malachi (07/10/03 12:45 PM)


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OfflineDellComputers
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Registered: 04/15/03
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Re: Druggies [Re: Malachi]
    #1702197 - 07/10/03 12:48 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

where in upstate ny?im near poughkeepsie..


--------------------
:stash: + :bong: = :smile:


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

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Re: Druggies [Re: DellComputers]
    #1702753 - 07/10/03 03:29 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

unless you have spent lots of time discussing the universe with these so-called "druggies", you remain ignorant and bias.

often, in my experiance, those who are labelled as "druggies" by those elitest enough to label people with perjorative terms, are just like anyone else, but they lack articulation skills.

what is wrong with getting "fucked up"? if someone has never been exposed to philosophy, or the so-called "spirituality" you speak of, how else could they describe it?

please, Id really like a detailed description regarding the difference between the terms "fucked up" and "spiritual transcendance".

Often these "druggies" are just mis-eduacted individuals who want to experience transcendance and enlightenment just as much as any pretentious wannabee guru does, but they lack the intellectual ability to romantically describe their intent. They just want to experience a different reality, maybe because they are curious just like you, or maybe because they dont like their current on-going reality.

if you were never exposed to the information that allows you to describe the use of entheogens is such a pretty,intelligent manner, how would you describe your experiences?

"I got totally fucked up braaah"


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Druggies [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1702816 - 07/10/03 03:43 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with this complelely. How do we know what other people experience? You can't judge what goes on in their head by what they say, how they act, etc. Communication is one of our worst skills as a people, anyways.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineEgoMagickian
human

Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 118
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Druggies [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1705168 - 07/11/03 07:42 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

those elitest enough to label people with perjorative terms

Terms are not pejorative or adulatory. Words don't mean things; people mean things. It's about intent.

If you would address my meaning (which I described in my post) rather than the meaning you place on the label I chose, we might enjoy better communication.

please, Id really like a detailed description regarding the difference between the terms "fucked up" and "spiritual transcendance".

Set & setting... maybe mostly set of the individual. This, too, is about intent. And it's contextual. One person's spiritual transcendence is bound to be someone else's fucked up.

if someone has never been exposed to philosophy

Surely you wouldn't deny the value of context? Or assert that all contexts are equally useful for the same purpose? Especially for different people who bring different experiences to the table? Or expect someone who wants to go someplace to try to use a tool that doesn't seem likely to take them, personally, where they want to go? Especially for the sake of simply escaping your judgments of "elitist" and "pretentious"?

what is wrong with getting "fucked up"?

Nothing. Please read the entire thread before posting.

the so-called "spirituality" you speak of

Interesting, I don't remember speaking of spirituality, other than referring to Leary's stated point of view, which was meant to illustrate a particular point having little to do with spirituality per se. Integral to that point is the parallel between druggies and those single-mindedly devoted to only religious use.

maybe... they are... just like you

I find more truth in this statement than you perhaps give me credit for.

if you were never exposed to the information that allows you to describe the use of entheogens is such a pretty,intelligent manner, how would you describe your experiences?

If you were never exposed to said information, how would you experience your experiences? Differently than someone who had been exposed to such info. Language alone influences so much of how we experience things and how we think about those experiences. Hence, the importance of set.

I'm a little frustrated here. I've read Leary, and Walsch, Prather, and others. Not only is every junkie a holy man, he's God himself. All of us.

Leary knew this: "To cure the junkie and the alcoholic, you must humbly admit that he is a more deeply spiritual person than you, and you accept the cosmic validity of his search to transcend the game," but he also knew, "and you help him see that blackout drugs are just bad methodology..."

"Bad" of course is personal and relative. I believe that everyone is doing exactly what's right for them. And I can tell you that downing various substances at a party with people who won't experience them congruously with me and can't or won't want to talk about those experiences later in ways I find meaningful is not right for me. That's not elitist, it's self-aware.

So, can we get over it and move on to Malachi's excellent point:

it's just how go from there- however you got to the point of dosing, whatever motivation- that matters. this hasn't been worked out yet.

I hope s/he and all of you will post more about this...

Oh, PS: enlightenment/drug fiend duality is not appropriate here

Yes, there's an irony to the dichotomy, that lies within the word "entheogen" itself ;-) Thanks for pointing that out. What can I say, I'm doing my best here.


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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
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Re: Druggies [Re: EgoMagickian]
    #1706349 - 07/11/03 05:10 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

What's wrong with just getting fucked up once in a while? Do I have to do a drug for spiritual, academic, medical, etc. reasons only? What's so bad about feeling good and enjoying myself in an altered state of mind?


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