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Invisiblemofo
Hobby Jingoist


Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 2,232
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I dislike the term "entheogen"
    #8731072 - 08/05/08 08:44 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I don't believe the term entheogen is appropriate for secular or academic discussions about this class of substances.  It alludes to an ability to promote Godliness or a belief in God which is far from proven to be universal, and certainly unproven in its genuineness (although subjectively, there is no question that the experience can be deeply meaningful and transformative).  Just in viewing user posts on the shroomery, it can be seen that there are a number of people who use these substances who have very little apparent spirituality or belief in God.

The vast, worldwide natural distribution of these substances would suggest that, if they have been placed on this planet by a higher power, they were put here for the use and benefit of all the various peoples and cultures of the world, not just those who have a chemically based belief system.  The sooner we turn away from such overbearing terminology, the sooner we can begin a conversation in which all the world can participate.  Just my 2 cents.

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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,285
Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: mofo]
    #8731125 - 08/05/08 08:56 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Ha, well there's plenty of terms to use. I guess the one chosen is done so by intent. Are you suggesting we water it down for the masses? Would it be worth wanting then? For whom?

Crap, let's just call the whole thing off.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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Offlinenumonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!

Registered: 04/12/06
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Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: Rahz]
    #8731207 - 08/05/08 09:17 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Well, about the lack of spirituality or belief in god, you may want to be sure on your definition of each, and then check again. There is a pretty even set here on either side.

And if you don't like the terminology, then call them something like 'hallucinogens'. There are plenty of other terms for substances with similar effects, but an offense on theism through semantic adversity is neither going to help the discourse against religion/god/spirituality, nor convince the textbooks to issue another printing.

The word is just that. A word, don't read into it too much. Just because the theistic approach might be wrong, or at least misguided, is no reason to re-define many words that still have applicable value in our social system. This sort of thing is more work than not. Shit, most people, even of the tripping sort, have no fucking clue where the root of the word 'entheogen' comes from anyway.

Also, considering the historical uses of these substances, many were done in rituals that were supposed to be conducive to seeing 'spirits' or 'gods'. Disavowing this knowledge would be tantamount to erasing a chapter in a history text. You might not like what you see in the past, but that leaves no excuse to disregard relics. Especially when they sound so cool rolling off the tongue.:)



~Monk

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Offlinerev 766
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Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: numonkei]
    #8731426 - 08/05/08 10:13 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

i think it's suitable, considering if they never existed, religion probably wouldn't either.


--------------------
praise "Bob"
did you mean shmooed-R.I.P.

"drought besets the mind, decay besets the man"-me

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: mofo]
    #8731865 - 08/06/08 12:03 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I like the term.

Unleash the god within...

Religious or not... that definition works well.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Invisiblespudamore
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Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: mofo]
    #8732024 - 08/06/08 12:48 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

well its only a word, its only a label for what the subject/object is. its not the subject/object itself.


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: spudamore]
    #8732344 - 08/06/08 04:31 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

i like the term
not in a creator put it here way
but in the way that it produces more vibrance in enxperience
god without culture or superstition.
raw god
the inner fire thing.

but if people think it puts their god into another person, then it is the wrong idea.

actually god is a pretty weird term
maybe I don;t like it.

envibrogen is better.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleaDoS
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Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: mofo]
    #8732359 - 08/06/08 04:40 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Hippies use that word because it adds a sense of goodness/reason to what they are doing. Because they have been brainwashed and think drug automatically means bad.


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"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
:drooling:GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH:drooling:

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: mofo]
    #8732377 - 08/06/08 04:49 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I like the term 'entheogen' but I agree that it's misused in a secular context.

An entheogen is any hallucinogenic substance that is used in a religious / ritualistic context.

It should only be called an entheogen in an academic discussion if it's being used in that way.

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Offlineillume
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Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: rev 766]
    #8732438 - 08/06/08 05:30 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

rev 766 said:
i think it's suitable, considering if they never existed, religion probably wouldn't either.




well said

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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8732489 - 08/06/08 06:24 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
i like the term
not in a creator put it here way
but in the way that it produces more vibrance in enxperience
god without culture or superstition.
raw god
the inner fire thing.

but if people think it puts their god into another person, then it is the wrong idea.

actually god is a pretty weird term
maybe I don;t like it.

envibrogen is better.




Envibrogen :awesome::thumbup:


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: blewmeanie]
    #8732517 - 08/06/08 06:48 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

they give super magic powers of the gods tho... :foreheadslap:


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Offlinezouden
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Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: Middleman]
    #8732561 - 08/06/08 07:24 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
I like the term 'entheogen' but I agree that it's misused in a secular context.

An entheogen is any hallucinogenic substance that is used in a religious / ritualistic context.

It should only be called an entheogen in an academic discussion if it's being used in that way.



That makes sense, I like it :thumbup:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,007
Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: blewmeanie]
    #8733014 - 08/06/08 10:26 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

blewmeanie said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
i like the term
not in a creator put it here way
but in the way that it produces more vibrance in enxperience
god without culture or superstition.
raw god
the inner fire thing.

but if people think it puts their god into another person, then it is the wrong idea.

actually god is a pretty weird term
maybe I don;t like it.

envibrogen is better.




Envibrogen :awesome::thumbup:





--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Invisibleblewmeanie
I'm a teapot User Gallery


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Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8733200 - 08/06/08 11:11 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

lol.....mushroom?


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: blewmeanie]
    #8733272 - 08/06/08 11:29 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

ok?


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Offlinenumonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!

Registered: 04/12/06
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Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: thedudenj]
    #8733346 - 08/06/08 11:50 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I like the term 'Brain Crayons'...

Nobody knows what you're talking about, which can be a good thing in many contexts.

:shrug:



~Monk

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: mofo]
    #8733675 - 08/06/08 01:05 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I have begun to write a book, and the title includes the word 'Psychedelic.' I went on to explain that although I like the word entheogen (en=in, theo=god, gen=generating), I selected psychedelic (psyche=mind, delos=manifesting) because it now has a fairly well-known history, including the culture, music and art of the 60s, which is often deemed to be stigmatizing of the word. Therefore it is more recognizable, and since I hope to have the book published for general sales, and I'm not addressing academics, I thought that it was suitable. Moreover, the word psychedelic has a kinda cute origin - a contest of sorts between Humphrey Osmond and Aldous Huxley. Osmond won.

One doesn't hear of 'entheogenic music' or 'entheogenic art,' yet the reference to 'theos' is a bit more specific than the word 'psyche.' In the former, transpersonal, transcendental phenomena is clearly indicated, whereas psyche has wider associations. There are many people, as evidenced on this forum alone, who have not kept up with definitions and who have negative emotional reactions to the word 'God' because it evokes primitive anthromorphizations from childhood, compounded by exposure to childish fundamentalist mentalities which are in the media. Most serious Jewish and Christian theologians do not take classic theism to be the tyrannical, jealous, angry, vindictive tribal deity that the Old Testament describes.

Bottom line: is that psychedelics/entheogens can be approached very seriously from the point of theology. The Good Friday Experiment of 1962 still has validity, not to mention all of those in history who have undergone a conversion experience "occasioned" by psychedelics - me included.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (08/06/08 05:43 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Loc: underbelly
Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8735052 - 08/06/08 05:23 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I hope I'm in your book.:D


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: Icelander]
    #8735172 - 08/06/08 05:44 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I don't know about the book, but you're on my list! :grin:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Male


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Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #8735452 - 08/06/08 06:55 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

:heart: Oh baby.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblemofo
Hobby Jingoist


Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 2,232
Loc: Donkey Kong Kill Screen
Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: Middleman]
    #8735805 - 08/06/08 08:11 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
I like the term 'entheogen' but I agree that it's misused in a secular context.

An entheogen is any hallucinogenic substance that is used in a religious / ritualistic context.

It should only be called an entheogen in an academic discussion if it's being used in that way.




Thats a good point middleman.  I was thinking of academics involved in medical research into emerging applications of hallucinogens, such as psychotherapy.  For scholars such as sociologists and anthropologists involved in the study of ritual use of hallucinogens, the term is entirely appropriate.


Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

blewmeanie said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
i like the term
not in a creator put it here way
but in the way that it produces more vibrance in enxperience
god without culture or superstition.
raw god
the inner fire thing.

but if people think it puts their god into another person, then it is the wrong idea.

actually god is a pretty weird term
maybe I don;t like it.

envibrogen is better.




Envibrogen :awesome::thumbup:








oh I get it now, en "vibe" rogen  :smirk:

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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Registered: 06/23/07
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Re: I dislike the term "entheogen" [Re: mofo]
    #8738058 - 08/07/08 09:16 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Psychedelic mind manifestation makes people consider all things.

Entheogen is a term appopiated by those that have consumed these psychedelics. I'd listen to what they have to say.


--------------------

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