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weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self
    #16639607 -

Many refer to mother nature and so anthropomorphize a mental clustering of events/physical features. I think this is the same thing we do with our sense of self. Take a mental clustering of events/physical features and anthropomorphize.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16639613 -

Anthropos anthropomorphizing anthropos?

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: DieCommie]
    #16639692 -

I was thinking more the process of anthropomorphization creating the illusion of an anthrop.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16639756 -

Looks like a circular argument to me.  Applying human characteristics to a human is a tautology, not an anthropomorphism.  There is no morphing going on.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: DieCommie]
    #16639855 -

DieCommie said:
Looks like a circular argument to me.  Applying human characteristics to a human is a tautology, not an anthropomorphism.  There is no morphing going on.


I disagree, and feel the OP has got it. We are anthropomorphizing our own humanness into existence.

Your statement there assumes that our humanness is tautology. OP is not making that assumption by suggesting what happens in order for us to make that deduction. He proposes that our humanness is an anthropomorphization, not tautology.

It makes perfect sense, no? What is the quality of humanness beyond a collective appearance of intricate mass cellular symbiosis and their collective behavior?
"Humanness" is qualitative, not quantitative.


Who is "Violet" really? No more than the selectively-singular appearance of an unimaginable number of wave-packet "particles."


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Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Violet]
    #16640125 -

There is a Self, only it is common to all and the idea seems to be to hide from Itself and enjoy some strange experience forever throughout which it might learn something.


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My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: circastes] * 2
    #16640751 -

circastes said:
There is a Self, only it is common to all and the idea seems to be to hide from Itself and enjoy some strange experience forever throughout which it might learn something.



Garbage


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: DieCommie]
    #16640938 -

DieCommie said:
Looks like a circular argument to me.  Applying human characteristics to a human is a tautology, not an anthropomorphism.  There is no morphing going on.


I agree it is circular. It would be impossible to use the word anthropomorphism in this context without being circular. Still, it was the best word I could think of to convey the meaning I intended. I can't really seem to wrap my head around a way to express the absence of something which all experience revolves around. So I went for the alternative. For a way that the sensation of some central entity might be created. And it seems to me we project sensations, thoughts, emotions, etc. onto a sense of self that isn't really there but is instead imagined. So that imagined self first has to be created. IMO that creation is most akin to the process of anthropomorphism. Like creating mother nature and then using that identity as a placeholder for... lots.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16641071 -

What if you just know your "self" by which way it acts in life situations. (experience) and how those experiences make you "feel".
Yet still don't take that self as being any more anthropo than animal?
Is this a "self" that has been anthromorphed to a anthropo "self"?
What would make us do this?
Believing that as homo sapiens we have this self?
Believejng we are this self?
Being this self?
Acting the self you believe yourself to be?
Just thinking your "self" is more complicated that just a fundamental highest being in nature?
I don't get this.
I think the circular argument thang is stumping my simple mind.

1L


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hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

"nobody lives their lives fully except for bull fighters"

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: ashfiken]
    #16641081 -

IMO we do this because the alternative signifies a lack of control with no one at the wheel. Same reason we tend to do it for nature or the universe.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16641187 -

Kickle said:
Many refer to mother nature and so anthropomorphize a mental clustering of events/physical features. I think this is the same thing we do with our sense of self. Take a mental clustering of events/physical features and anthropomorphize.



and so then your conclusion if this be true?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Icelander]
    #16641256 -

Not much. Something along the lines of incoorporating the realization into the mix and observing the change if any.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16641448 -

I see.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16641948 -

Are you saying that we are attaching humanistic Attributes to the self, than what is it that is doing the anthropomorphizing? And why is it so strange that a human attaches humanistic characteristics? seems natural to me. Or did I miss your point:shrug:


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Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Cactilove]
    #16642103 -

Yes, attaching what we experience to a self that likely doesn't exist at all. And so in order to attach these experiences to a self we have to first create a self and then give it the characteristics of our experience.

Unless there is a self which inherently has these experiences. I haven't been able to find it :shrug:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16642138 -

Why is this strange to you, what else is there to attach it to?


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Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Cactilove]
    #16642173 -

its strange to me due to not often thinking in these terms. An atypical way of looking at the experience of "me"

And I also find it strange we do attach experiences to anything at all, especially something so transparent.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16642409 -

Whya would happen to the expierence if we were not to attach it to anything?


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Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Cactilove]
    #16642599 -

More importantly what would happen to you?


--------------------
Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16642901 -

Does a mushroom fungimorph its surroundings? :tongue2:

I think we do it because it's easy. It's hard to conceptualize a subjective experience that isn't ours, because once we conceptualize another experience, it is ours.

Besides that, there's this whole evolutionary push that attracts us to what is like us.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16643657 -

Kickle said:
Many refer to mother nature and so anthropomorphize a mental clustering of events/physical features. I think this is the same thing we do with our sense of self. Take a mental clustering of events/physical features and anthropomorphize.


while i agree, can't this be said for many (social) things, i.e. Man/Woman, Child/Adult? clusters of traits, features, behaviors combined into a fantasy about the essence of an object.

these fantasies seem very much really lived out and experienced through humans. the immature child qualitatively transitions from purity, carelessness and dependence, into the mature adult of impurity, responsibility and independence

the fictions seem a very real thing, they make up our identities, they enable us to act or not act, they make the social landscape and our place within it intelligible...



Vore said:
I think we do it because it's easy. It's hard to conceptualize a subjective experience that isn't ours, because once we conceptualize another experience, it is ours.

Besides that, there's this whole evolutionary push that attracts us to what is like us.



i think the function of the self is political and by that i mean embroiled in games of power, morality, control and coercion. in a political institution like law the self behind the action is important and over which we exercise moral judgment, where as with an apolitical practice like science the self behind the paper is (should be) irrelevant/nonexistent.


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dripping with fantasy

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: quinn]
    #16647749 -

^^^ U must dig Foucault :smile:

It's all anthropic bias really - self, the other, God, religion, science! It's our cognitive apparatus providing us with a model for our experienced reality because that is what it has evolved to do!
Death is our only escape!


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"My client is in no hurry. God has all the time in the world." Gaudi

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Cactilove]
    #16649205 -

Cactilove said:
Whya would happen to the expierence if we were not to attach it to anything?


Cactilove said:
More importantly what would happen to you?


if the experience still occurs then nothing changes

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16649239 -

Well wouldn't the experience just drift away?


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Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: quinn]
    #16649268 -

quinn said:
Kickle said:
Many refer to mother nature and so anthropomorphize a mental clustering of events/physical features. I think this is the same thing we do with our sense of self. Take a mental clustering of events/physical features and anthropomorphize.


while i agree, can't this be said for many (social) things, i.e. Man/Woman, Child/Adult? clusters of traits, features, behaviors combined into a fantasy about the essence of an object.

these fantasies seem very much really lived out and experienced through humans. the immature child qualitatively transitions from purity, carelessness and dependence, into the mature adult of impurity, responsibility and independence

the fictions seem a very real thing, they make up our identities, they enable us to act or not act, they make the social landscape and our place within it intelligible...


Yah totally. I was talking with my girlfriend about this and I was bewildered by the fact that I don't know her and she doesn't know me. One set of information coming in on my end that informs my sense of her and another set of information that informs her sense of herself. Likely not very similar in the end run.

It's a very strange world to be in.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Cactilove]
    #16649275 -

Cactilove said:
Well wouldn't the experience just drift away?


:shrug:
it hasn't for me yet


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16649322 -

Then you must be attaching it to something!


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Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Cactilove]
    #16649331 -

why?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16649359 -

Because if you never to attach the expierence to a self, than how would you become you. You are shaped in part by the experiences you have!


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Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Cactilove]
    #16649373 -

the experience of a self can be a simple process, much like a memory appearing, or a thought, or the sensation of pain -- just another experience. and there may be no unattaching or attaching aside from importance.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16649390 -

Can you explain with an analogy for easier understanding of how this can be possible and still retain a sense of self?


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Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Cactilove]
    #16649438 -

let's say we have some numbers:
2, 6, 8, and 31

now let's say that these numbers represent raw experience:
a sight, a smell, tactile sensation, sounds.
now let's say that raw experience is going through a complex series of events

for the numbers this might look like:
2(6 - 8 + 31)
which equals 58
a number that was not originally present in the raw data

For those raw human experiences, something similar may be occurring.
something not present in the raw data emerges: a sense of self


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Cactilove]
    #16649457 -

Umm I can give an example. In the Navy I had to do a firefighting drill. In order to don the equipment, I had to take off my glasses - which I can't see without. I was stripped of my faculty, and I was less experienced than my peers. The whole thing was a feeling of hands pulling and guiding me. We were carrying messages down the line, and I wasn't fully aware of the significance. I was just doing.

Experiences where I am fully submerged in doing and not identifying with my self makes me aware of what I want to bring into daily perception.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16649481 -

So I agree with raw expierence, however it would make a difference of how one reacted to an expierence and how it shaped them in reaction to say seeing someone getting shot. If the expierence was not attatched to them it would swoosh over there head and they would continue through the day, however if it was attached to them it could cause emotional trauma.


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Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Vore]
    #16649488 -

You didn't know the significance was to stop a fire?


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Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Cactilove]
    #16649508 -

your scenario is bogus IMO
everyone has experiences that stick with them for long periods of time

and neuropsychology has quite a bit to say about how this occurs. it's an important aspect of learning to be able to send varied amounts of chemical messengers in response to incoming information. Just like it's important for the brain to be able to send messages about pain and the degree of pain.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16649624 -

Have you not heard of the psychotic statue effect. In attempt to escape trauma patients will act like an inanimate objects, thinking this is not actually happening to me, this makes it all better.

What is the expierence sticking to if not the self?


--------------------
Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.

Edited by Cactilove (08/05/12 10:11 PM)

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Cactilove]
    #16649642 -

maybe not sticking to but entwined with time :shrug:

and I know there are all sorts of defense mechanisms out there. That particular one sounds really mild all things considered. altho I suspect it has lots of repercussions in other areas of life.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Cactilove]
    #16649650 -

Seems like you're sticking the concepts of memory, reaction, and integration with perception of self and the self's wants.

When you are not doing you might reflect on the past. That to me is identifying with the self. "We talked some mad trash earlier" "We did really great fighting that fire" "I fucked the shit out of that girl". They might lead from raw experience, but they are not raw experience.

Identity and ego come out during periods of healing and relaxation.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Vore]
    #16649688 -

Quote:
Seems like you're sticking the concepts of memory, reaction, and integration with perception of self and the self's wants.


I thought this was all contained in the self.

I am having trouble staying with you guys, what are you trying to say.

I feel like this is important, but I just can't see it.


--------------------
Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Cactilove]
    #16649712 -

"Self" might mean something different to me than it does to Kickle, just like "Love" might.

The self to me is consciously identifying your awareness with your specific body and mind.

When you are experiencing/doing not focused on yourself, your awareness may be involved in forms or other selves, but you aren't identifying yourself with them.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Vore]
    #16649795 -

Ahh ok. Well my idea of self is my name, what I do for work, you know the egoic self. I think this is an illusion. I think I'm slowly coming around. I still need more examples though. Sorry if my inferior intelligence frustrates you guys.


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Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Cactilove]
    #16649854 -

self is no more than identity IMO
and that can be as broad or narrow as need be


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Cactilove]
    #16649921 -

Cactilove said:
Ahh ok. Well my idea of self is my name, what I do for work, you know the egoic self. I think this is an illusion. I think I'm slowly coming around. I still need more examples though. Sorry if my inferior intelligence frustrates you guys.


Just work on posts per page and your emotionally charged responses and we'll b good.

I'll think about it and get back to you. It's not like we're experts. You can meditate on this stuff and contribute as well.

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: giesyerjaicket]
    #16651526 -

giesyerjaicket said:
^^^ U must dig Foucault :smile:



fuck yeh! :rockon:

he's badass


--------------------
dripping with fantasy

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Re: weird. i think we anthropomorphize a sense of self [Re: Kickle]
    #16651976 -

Kickle said:
Yah totally. I was talking with my girlfriend about this and I was bewildered by the fact that I don't know her and she doesn't know me. One set of information coming in on my end that informs my sense of her and another set of information that informs her sense of herself. Likely not very similar in the end run.

It's a very strange world to be in.



sure is... :sadyes:

not similar but there would be truth in both fictions i think...

also...

relationships seem based as much on unsaid things as said... maybe even more so...

actually the world seems run on unsaid things. silent agreement, unspoken understanding and faith. how vulgar it is when someone asks for the joke to be explained, the joy of the joke is in the shared unsaid.


a written contract is clear and when it is fulfilled you go your separate ways.

love is a contract unsaid, its rules are vague, they can be bent and changed, the parties involved may view it very differently, it needs trust and faith and quiet concessions on both sides, and maybe for these reasons and more it is one of the most difficult to enter and difficult to break... :strokebeard:


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dripping with fantasy

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