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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
The Anthropic Principle
    #1728593 - 07/18/03 08:54 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

From another thread:

Just think if the sun were a bit hotter, we would all die.

Yes, what are the odds? People are amazed that the conditions on earth are exactly right for human life. Well if they were not, no one would be here to contemplate them. Notice that no one on Mercury is amazed at the sun's perfect temperature...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: The Anthropomorphic Principle [Re: Swami]
    #1728605 - 07/18/03 09:03 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

lol more like.. if the earth was closer to the sun.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
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Re: The Anthropomorphic Principle [Re: buckwheat]
    #1728669 - 07/18/03 09:35 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"Just think if the sun were a bit hotter, we would all die."

yup, ans if the universe's rate of expansion were just a nit slower, it would have collapsed by now. If it were a bit faster, it would have disintegrated by now. sounds like design to me.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: The Anthropomorphic Principle [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1728673 - 07/18/03 09:37 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

oh, yeah, and I do believe the principle swami is referring to is the Anthropological principle, IE, "the universe is the way it is because if it were any other way, we wouldn't be here to observe it..."

Anthropomorphism has something to do with evolution and body parts, right?


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Anthropomorphic Principle [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1729090 - 07/19/03 01:00 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"Everything happens for a reason."

The other day, I went to pull out an envelope from my box of them, I only grabbed one, but two came out (it was caught on it or something, but not stuck). It fell on my dresser. I was like "damn it, I only needed one". The envelope was for a letter I was writing to my friend, and after sealing it, I later started questioning whether or not I should send it. So, I busted it open, read it, decided I was going to give it to him, and put it in the other envelope.
It sounds stupid, and coincidental, and overanalyzed, but what I am saying is that that kind of thing always happens. It might be because one looks for it to happen, but people that look for evidence the world sucks find evidence.
Peace.


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRhizoid
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Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: The Anthropomorphic Principle [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1729289 - 07/19/03 02:56 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

It's usually called "The Anthropic Principle". I think of it as an example of backward causation as opposed to the more common case of forward causation.

One more example:

The fine-structure constant is a dimensionless number (0.0072973525) that is a measure of the strength of the electromagnetic force. No one knows why it has that particular value. But if it were changed just a few percent in either direction, atomic physics would be altered so that type G stars (such as our sun) would not exist.

This is not as trivial as the example with the sun's temperature, because we can compare the sun with other stars, and our planet with Mercury and Mars. But we can't observe other universes with fine-structure constants that are 0.006 or 0.008, and we don't even know if they are even possible or if the fine-structure constant might be determined by some more fundamental principle.


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OfflineGernBlanston
unintended sideeffect

Registered: 05/28/03
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Re: The Anthropomorphic Principle [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1729291 - 07/19/03 02:57 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

anthropomorphize

\An`thro*po*mor"phize\, v. t. & i. To attribute a human form or personality to.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, ? 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

v : ascribe human features to something
v. tr. : To ascribe human characteristics to
v. intr. : To ascribe human characteristics to things not human.

You keep saying that word.  I do not think that word means when you think it means.

When I am talking about my cat and I say "Man, he's totally stressed out.  His neuroses are getting worse each day.", then I am anthropomorphizing my cat.  When one refers to the sun as "awakening with great joy and anticipation of a beautiful day ahead", that is anthropomorphizing.  Not sure what you were going for there, but...

If I'm not mistaken, it is commonly accepted macro-anthropoligical theory that if the planet were 50 degrees warmer or 50 degrees colder (give or take), then life would still have evolved, simply along a different path.  If it were that much hotter, we likely never would have left the oceans.  If that much colder, then.. well, we likely never would have left the oceans :smile:

Other than that, I'm not sure what your point was... ?


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There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: The Anthropomorphic Principle [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1729310 - 07/19/03 03:17 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I stand corrected - thanks.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineGrav
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: The Anthropomorphic Principle [Re: Swami]
    #1729419 - 07/19/03 04:26 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks Swami, you gave my brain a warm fuzzy.


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OfflineSteevil
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Registered: 01/21/03
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Re: The Anthropomorphic Principle [Re: Grav]
    #1729513 - 07/19/03 05:21 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I guess it depends on your beliefs, but assuming you agree with evolution (and if you're a creationist I guess you'll believe it's design anyway) then to me this principle seems to be like saying:

"Isn't it lucky this plot of land is so flat? Otherwise the foundations of my house would be wonky. And if it was on a hill my house would be underground! If it was smaller I'd be sued for being on someone else's land, and if it was bigger I'd have an annoying garden to tend."

The house was, of course, built to fit the shape and size of the land, and life evolved to enjoy the right temperature and conditions on this planet. Yes, a lot of places are just too hot or too cold, and a lot of places you just cant build a house. But, assuming an infinite or at least very large universe (or perhaps one that has been destroyed an reborn a bunch of times) it's fairly likely there'll be a few places that it all works out.

Just because something is unlikely it doesn't mean it didn't happen by chance. It's incredibly unlikely that you'll win the lottery, but someone wins, every week.

As with most of the things I say, I'm not really making a point for either side of any argument that may be going on. I don't think I'm making a very good point about anything. :grin: I like to disagree with the way people make arguments, not what they're saying. I personally haven't really worked out what I think about life, the universe and everything.

I rambled a bit there, didnt I? Sorry everyone. 


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All the days of his vow of separation no razor shall pass over his head. He shall be holy ... he shall let the locks of hair on his head grow long.


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