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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: Enlil]
    #15985258 -

Enlil said:
Do you feel the same way about selling any substance, whether lethal or not?


I think many would suggest that drug abuse is a public health concern, not a criminal activity, and it should be treated as such.

A regulated free market may be a better solution to manage drug-related problems.  I think its naive though, to assert that legalizing everything will solve all our drug problems.  We should acknowledge the drawbacks of such a strategy.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: Enlil]
    #15985265 -

Enlil, yes. ONLY if they advertise it truly for what it is. ( which wouldn't happen if said substances were legal and regulated)

The government already sells us lethal items anyways :wink:


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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: trip forever]
    #15985269 -

trip forever said:
You can fantasize all you want, but it won't happen in your lifetime.

Discuss.



Washington State, this fall.

/thread


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"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: trip forever]
    #15985271 -

trip forever said:
Enlil, yes. ONLY if they advertise it truly for what it is. ( which wouldn't happen if said substances were legal and regulated)

The government already sells us lethal items anyways :wink:


Example, please...what does the government sell us?


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: Enlil]
    #15985277 -

Enlil said:
trip forever said:
Enlil, yes. ONLY if they advertise it truly for what it is. ( which wouldn't happen if said substances were legal and regulated)

The government already sells us lethal items anyways :wink:


Example, please...what does the government sell us?



Some states have state run liquor stores so there are places in the U.S. where the government sells alcohol. Alcohol = lethal and flammable and fun when used correctly the last time I checked.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)

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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: Enlil]
    #15985288 -

Alcohol, cigarettes, toothpaste, mouthwash, soap, baby powder, perfume, gasoline.

Many substances are lethal if used incorrectly, hell even water can kill you, so add that to the list.


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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: trip forever]
    #15985302 -

trip forever said:
Alcohol, cigarettes, toothpaste, mouthwash, soap, baby powder, perfume, gasoline.

Many substances are lethal if used incorrectly, hell even water can kill you, so add that to the list.


The government doesn't sell any of that shit in any state where I've lived...


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: Enlil]
    #15985316 -

They regulate it allowing it to be sold. They could easily stop production.

I don't mean sell it in the literal sense. But they do allow lethal items to be sold on the market.


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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: trip forever]
    #15985328 -

trip forever said:
They regulate it allowing it to be sold. They could easily stop production.

I don't mean sell it in the literal sense. But they do allow lethal items to be sold on the market.


Well, yeah...but there's a big difference between selling a lethal item and not stopping someone else from doing it...

I don't think drug prohibition is really tied to any theory that they are lethal anyway...It is more about the societal harms caused by addiction...

In the case of weed, it's probably illegal because mainstream america thinks that all weed users look like this:



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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: Enlil]
    #15985365 -

Yeah, I didn't word that very good the first time..

True, IMO when  drugs are illegal they are more of a societal harm than them being legal.

If someone wants to take meth, that's their decision, not mine, even though i dont agree with the use of meth shrug:


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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: trip forever]
    #15985373 -

trip forever said:
Yeah, I didn't word that very good the first time..

True, IMO when  drugs are illegal they are more of a societal harm than them being legal.

If someone wants to take meth, that's their decision, not mine, even though i dont agree with the use of meth shrug:


You may be right about the societal harm thing...it's hard to say...

The theory is that if they are legal, more people will use them...and more people will become addicted...This makes some sense to me, but obviously, it might work the other way.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: Enlil]
    #15985384 -

Didn't they decriminalize all drugs in Portugal? Drug usage/Crime rates etc. All went down apparently


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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: Enlil]
    #15985394 -

Enlil said:
trip forever said:
Yeah, I didn't word that very good the first time..

True, IMO when  drugs are illegal they are more of a societal harm than them being legal.

If someone wants to take meth, that's their decision, not mine, even though i dont agree with the use of meth shrug:


You may be right about the societal harm thing...it's hard to say...

The theory is that if they are legal, more people will use them...and more people will become addicted...This makes some sense to me, but obviously, it might work the other way.


Not true. Look at one country (I forgot who) Decriminalized all drugs and drug usage went down, especially among teens. Their society is doing much better after that.

It's in illegal America (documentary on fox, about 30 minutes in)


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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: DivineIntensity]
    #15985402 -

DivineIntensity said:
Didn't they decriminalize all drugs in Portugal? Drug usage/Crime rates etc. All went down apparently


That's not completely true...

It is true that possession of less than 11 days worth of a drug for personal use is not a crime...but it's still illegal and users are subject to mandatory treatment programs, etc...

I think this would be a great idea in this country...but it isn't legalization...

In addition, for dealers and manufacturers, they still put people in jail..

Portugal is actually the reason I am against legalization and in favor of a civil ban requiring treatment for users and addicts...In addition, I would love to see more education...we could use all of the money we save on prisons.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: trip forever]
    #15985412 -

When people talk about Portugal and decriminalization, they often refer to the CATO study.  And in actuality, the data in the CATO study are pretty weak. If you really examine the numbers, its not as clear as the pro-drug users claim.

Drug use is complex, and affected by many things.  We see a great example with smoking.  Its use has decreased through a variety of measures, while remaining OTC the entire time.

If you made drugs "legal", cheap, and readily available, its improbably to imagine use decreasing.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: Enlil]
    #15985419 -

I don't really think treatment would work for addicts. Doesn't aa only have a 5% success rate?

I'm for legalization so they can safely administer their drugs without our fear of OD, diseases from dirty needles and they can even hold treatment there which could be voluntary/madatory. 

It's safer for them if itsnlegalized, puts less people in jail.


Aaaaand how many people do you know that solely don't use drugs because their illegal? The vast majority don't use them for fear of health concerns, not because of their illegality.


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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: badchad]
    #15985422 -

badchad said:
If you made drugs "legal", cheap, and readily available, its improbably to imagine use decreasing.


I have to agree that drug use would likely increase...You're taking away disincentives and making it cheaper...it seems like a recipe for increase..

Having said that, the increase could probably be avoided altogether if more education and awareness was a part of the overall plan of decriminalization...

I do believe there's a solution, but I don't believe full legalization is it.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: trip forever]
    #15985425 -

trip forever said:
Aaaaand how many people do you know that solely don't use drugs because their illegal? The vast majority don't use them for fear of health concerns, not because of their illegality.


I know at least one...

If it were legal, I'd shroom every fucking weekend..

I miss shrooms...


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: trip forever] * 1
    #15985426 -

trip forever said:
I don't really think treatment would work for addicts. Doesn't aa only have a 5% success rate?.


True, but that is just AA.  I know of research done in an experimental "work force" treatment program, that have high rates of treating opioid users (as high as 50%), and these programs are cheap.

If we diverted the money from enforcement/incarceration to "treatment" and the devlopment of new treatment programs, we could likely get much higher rates.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: Weed will never be legal. [Re: Enlil]
    #15985427 -

Regardless, shouldn't people have the freedom to ingest whatever substance they choose?

Being legal doesn't have to mean they are sold in stores so that can delete the possibility of them bring more available.


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