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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: YawnGG]
    #15741304 -

YawnGG said:
It is clear some of you are very happy with giving up your rights to big brother, you send your kids to government ran social engineering programs, you watch government controlled "news" , you believe there is a difference between republican and democrat, you have no idea about the corruption in government, you believe the WTC buildings fell because a plane hit them.. you live in this little dream where you think government is your friend, well your friend is fucking you over ever chance it can in more ways then you could ever imagine...


:lol: Dude, you're on the Shroomery for fucks sake, who are you really directing this towards?

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: Ran-D]
    #15741315 -

and every one noes our government is fucking us,but there not fucking us that hard :wink:

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: ijustwantodie]
    #15741440 -

There fucking as hard as they can and still get away with it, and there constantly manipulating the herd further and further into it.

I do realize my other comment was a bit harsh, i figure this forum would have a higher count of folks that aren't trapped in there box. but still many are unaware of the details of whats going on, and awareness of people is the only thing that is going stop it. So just knowing "those guys are bad" doesn't really amount to much, and in some way makes them worse then the sheeple that are completely asleep..

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #15741678 -

Prisoner#1 said:
Not Quite Social said:
Ha! Ordinance violator!  That man deserves a citation.  By the way, the Tea Party likes to trumpet the Constitution.  Did you know the Constitution singles out political speech as a specifically important right, and the Supreme Court has upheld core political speech, which includes conduct for the purpose of political expression, as the most protected form of speech from impinging laws?  I guess Oakland operates under some other document.




does the constitution state the trespassing, criminal mischief, arson and
destruction of public property are important rights. I wonder where the
supreme court stands on that


well THEY seem to think it a right cause THEY are doing it all over the world!

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: zzripz]
    #15741788 -

> well THEY seem to think it a right cause THEY are doing it all over the world!

Who are "they" and what does it matter to US law what "they" are doing outside of the US?


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: YawnGG]
    #15741800 -

YawnGG said:
1: Occupiers destroyed a fence. Ok it it did happend. But the media forgets to mention that the people were surrounded by two barricades then tear gassed. They had to destroy the fence to escape.


Had they not been there in the first place, then they wouldn't have been trapped by tear gas, thus they would not have needed to destroy property to "escape". 

YawnGG said:
2: People were trying to occupy the ymca. COMPLETELY FALSE. occupy was surrounded by the police then told if they did not disperse they would be arrested. The police then refused to let people leave, fearing imprisonment an occupier used her membership card to try and escape and people of course followed her through the building.


If it happened as you described, then it is completely true.  You said, "people of course followed her through the building" thus people "were trying to occupy the ymca".  The act of entering a building necessitates occupation of said building.  You cannot enter a building and not occupy the building at the same time.  Regardless, if they did not have memberships at the YMCA, and they were asked to leave, or they entered areas they were not allowed without a membership, then they were trespassing.

YawnGG said:
EDIT: I forgot to mention that cops were braught in from many other areas for tonight, it was all planned.


The occupiers also bring in help from many other areas when they prepare to stage a big protest.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: Seuss] * 2
    #15741852 -

Seuss said:
Had they not been there in the first place, then they wouldn't have been trapped by tear gas, thus they would not have needed to destroy property to "escape". 


Been where?  In public?

Quote:
Regardless, if they did not have memberships at the YMCA, and they were asked to leave, or they entered areas they were not allowed without a membership, then they were trespassing.


Entering without a membership isn't trespassing unless they were asked to leave.  I doubt all hundred of them were told this.  In any case, trespassing isn't a crime when you are fleeing an imminent threat to your person.

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: Seuss]
    #15741903 -

Seuss said:
> well THEY seem to think it a right cause THEY are doing it all over the world!

Who are "they" and what does it matter to US law what "they" are doing outside of the US?


What I meant WAS, IF a person is preachin to people protesting tyranny that the protesters are --everything prisoner stated--then I am saying that the accusers --theee powers that be (and their supporters) have been doing this BIG TIME all over Planet Earth!!

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: YawnGG]
    #15742033 -

YawnGG said:
There fucking as hard as they can and still get away with it, and there constantly manipulating the herd further and further into it.

I do realize my other comment was a bit harsh, i figure this forum would have a higher count of folks that aren't trapped in there box. but still many are unaware of the details of whats going on, and awareness of people is the only thing that is going stop it. So just knowing "those guys are bad" doesn't really amount to much, and in some way makes them worse then the sheeple that are completely asleep..



Why is it that every new member here says the same bullshit
:rolleyes:


--------------------
The countdown to the break up of the euro has officially begun.

A great financial crisis is going to erupt in Europe, and it is going to shake the world to the core.

If you were frightened by what happened back in 2008, then you are going to be absolutely horrified by what is coming next.

"You throw the sand against the wind
And the wind blows it back again."
- William Blake

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: Shill]
    #15742101 -

> Been where?  In public?

I highly doubt that police forced them into a corner from which they could not escape, opened up with tear gas, forcing them to tear down a fence... especially considering that the occupiers had announced days before hand that they were going to occupy the building that was being protected by said fence.  Perhaps I'm wrong, as I often am, but I doubt it in this case.

> Entering without a membership isn't trespassing unless they were asked to leave.

I stated as much in my post.

> In any case, trespassing isn't a crime when you are fleeing an imminent threat to your person.

What threat?  If they were fleeing a riot (that they didn't create), then I would have sympathy with your explanation. 

Quote:
What I meant WAS, IF a person is preachin to people protesting tyranny that the protesters are --everything prisoner stated--then I am saying that the accusers --theee powers that be (and their supporters) have been doing this BIG TIME all over Planet Earth!!


I still don't follow.  There is a proper way to protest.  Look at the civil rights movement for a classic example.  There is an improper way to protest.  Look at the occupiers for a classic example.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: Seuss]
    #15742112 -

did you see that thug/cop spray mace into the faces of the students who were peacfully sitting in protest?

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: zzripz]
    #15742207 -

> did you see that thug/cop spray mace into the faces of the students who were peacfully sitting in protest?

What does that have to do with this?  Does a cop going overboard, which happens all the time, protests or not, give protestors the right to vandalize property, incite riots, ignore court orders, etc?  If anything, the way the protestors behave gives the cops justification for the overbearing tactics.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: Seuss]
    #15742325 -

Suess said,

Quote:
You cannot enter a building and not occupy the building at the same time.


Tautologies, what are they good for?  Obviously "Occupy" has a relatively new meaning, and it's obvious that that new meaning is the topic here.  So, it is nonsense to argue against the older alternative meaning of the word.  In my experience, people who do this subtle meaning shift thing intend to frustrate a person rather than honestly address the person's argument--sometimes they don't even know what they are doing.  The real assholes know exactly what they're doing.  :wink:


--------------------

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: zzripz]
    #15742362 -

zzripz said:
did you see that thug/cop spray mace into the faces of the students who were peacfully sitting in protest?




That has nothing to do with this whatsoever

:lol:

That was just a cop acting on emotion towards the self entitled delinquents


--------------------
The countdown to the break up of the euro has officially begun.

A great financial crisis is going to erupt in Europe, and it is going to shake the world to the core.

If you were frightened by what happened back in 2008, then you are going to be absolutely horrified by what is coming next.

"You throw the sand against the wind
And the wind blows it back again."
- William Blake

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: Seuss] * 1
    #15742587 -

Seuss said:
I highly doubt that police forced them into a corner from which they could not escape, opened up with tear gas, forcing them to tear down a fence... especially considering that the occupiers had announced days before hand that they were going to occupy the building that was being protected by said fence.  Perhaps I'm wrong, as I often am, but I doubt it in this case.


It's only the part in bold that makes me think you might be right.  In my younger years, I observed many large protests in the US and Canada.  Police regularly forced protesters into corners from which they couldn't escape and then threatened arrest if they did not disperse.  This was of course always followed up by mass arrests every time.  Usually there wasn't a fence to be torn down, since the police lines were forming all 4 barriers.

Police also regularly fired pepper spray and/or tear gas into peacefully assembled, immobile, silent crowds.  They also routinely raided protesters' privately owned/rented buildings often miles from where any actual protests were occurring. 

It's having seen these things unfold before my eyes that makes a lot of the stories told by protesters elsewhere believable and it's having seen the police blatantly lie about these events to the media and the media dutifully pass these lies on that makes their word so hard to take at face value.

I don't know what happened here, and I probably don't sympathize with whatever they were or thought they were protesting that day, but I don't doubt for a second that the police would do exactly as you said you doubt they would do.

Someone posted a link to a live feed of the protests after the police made the first few arrests and I clicked it and watched for about 20 minutes.  In that time, there was a boxed off region filled with protesters and they weren't letting anyone in or out.  They kept shuffling the cameraman farther and farther away.  I watched for 20 minutes, got bored (absolutely nothing was happening), and turned it off.  Some time later, shit went down.

Quote:
What threat?  If they were fleeing a riot (that they didn't create), then I would have sympathy with your explanation. 


If a reasonable person would have fled from the situation they were in, then they were justified.  I don't know who created the situation since I wasn't there.  Was every single protester there with the intent to riot though?  If not, anyone who was not there to engage in criminal activity would be justified in fleeing said riot whether created by the police's actions or the other protesters'.

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #15743158 -

Oh right so seeing a cop spray mace into peacful protesters faces like is just a one off huh....? Get fukin real. Dont be naive. America has THE largest prison population in the freakin world.
You have SEEN the most awful retchingly dehumanized shitting vile torture photographs, the knowledge and acceptance of this going to the top.
You know that they are war criminals who lie about 9/11 (well I know this) and use this evil to make excuse to invade other peoples lands and commit genocide and contaminate the land and water with their weapons----and take their 'own peoples' freedoms away, and you scream, about people protesting...?

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: zzripz]
    #15743269 -

Not Quite Social said:
Did you know the Constitution singles out political speech as a specifically important right


No it doesn't.  I see you didn't cite any evidence for this conclusion either.

Seuss said:
> Been where?  In public?

I highly doubt that police forced them into a corner from which they could not escape, opened up with tear gas, forcing them to tear down a fence... especially considering that the occupiers had announced days before hand that they were going to occupy the building that was being protected by said fence.  Perhaps I'm wrong, as I often am, but I doubt it in this case.



Why do you doubt this?  Setting up cages for unwanted or potentially troublesome protestors is quite common, and police often seem to respond to dynamic incidents in inconsistent manners often inconsistent with any rational policy.  I find it easy to believe that the police designated an area for protestors to be, got pissed off, and then assaulted the general area in response to some level of provocation.  One of the bigger problems with the law on protests is the quasi-acceptance of using the lawlessness of one group to justify the disenfranchisement of the entire group when there is no neccesity to respond in this manner (i.e. when the staffing is sufficient to arrest individual criminals).

  Personally, I think the arrogant "I am the law" attitude that too many cops have causes this whenever you have a bunch of disrespectful people and a bunch of cops.  To these individuals, the law is less relevant than their own self esteem, and a lack of respect from a member of the public becomes a justification for breaking the law to satisfy the cops emotional needs.


Quote:
> In any case, trespassing isn't a crime when you are fleeing an imminent threat to your person.

What threat?  If they were fleeing a riot (that they didn't create), then I would have sympathy with your explanation.


Who is "they"?  I agree that you can not use an obstruction you created as an affirmative defense to trespass, provided you acted wrongly, but this would be an individualized bar on the legality of the defense, not a general one.  Simply being in the general area where lawlessness is occurring does not deprive you of your right of escape, nor remove your rights.

Kind of reminds me of responses to the KSU May 4th shootings, where the victimes and witnesses were often treated as a cohesive body despite the facts.


 

zzripz said:
Oh right so seeing a cop spray mace into peacful protesters faces like is just a one off huh....? Get fukin real. Dont be naive. America has THE largest prison population in the freakin world.
You have SEEN the most awful retchingly dehumanized shitting vile torture photographs, the knowledge and acceptance of this going to the top.
You know that they are war criminals who lie about 9/11 (well I know this) and use this evil to make excuse to invade other peoples lands and commit genocide and contaminate the land and water with their weapons----and take their 'own peoples' freedoms away, and you scream, about people protesting...?


I see you've declined to answer the questions you've been politely asked, yet you offer several more of your own.

This hysterical reply seems completely devoid of relevance.  What evidence do you have that "dehumanized shitting vile torture" is accepted "going to the top"?  What evidence do you have that "they" (the Oakland PD?) are lieing about 9/11 and invading other people's land?  What do wars and 9/11 and torture have to do with this at all?

  Why don't you file a complaint with the Oakland Police Department in regards to their perpetration of a 9/11 cover up, invasions of foreign states, and torture of prisoners in foreign lands? :flowstone:

Your irrelevant rant seems completely divorced from reality.

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: johnm214]
    #15743774 -

Update, one of the journalist arrested was released from prison, again the AP and there repeaters (Every main stream media source) were not even there at the time, and indeed they did just repeat what the police chief said. Thanks for supporting the truth ChuangTzu, it was starting to feel like gumby vs the block heads in here, but now I have a pokie:D

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2012/01/journalists-arrested-occupy-oakland

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: Shill]
    #15743792 -

Shill said:
zzripz said:
did you see that thug/cop spray mace into the faces of the students who were peacfully sitting in protest?




That has nothing to do with this whatsoever

:lol:

That was just a cop acting on emotion towards the self entitled delinquents


Incorrect, he was ordered to do so. Please use facts to formulate your opinions, thanks.

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Re: Occupy oakland - 300 arrested.. press cover up. [Re: YawnGG]
    #15743864 -

Occupy:  please grow up.

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