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Amazon Shop for: Papaver Somniferum

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InvisibleDelyrium
lemonadeh.o.n.e.y.

Registered: 12/27/99
Posts: 5,941
Loc: vermont
transcending the bullshit
    #1573045 - 05/23/03 08:42 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

oh man The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test is the best book I've read since On The Road. It's amazing really... I only just started reading so don't give away much but let's keep this an open discussion for the readers of the book because I really do think it's amazing so far.


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Fuck Ted Nugent he?s a fucking jerk
I wish that he?d be gone
Chauvanistic republican
Kills animals cause he
Forgot how to write a song


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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: Delyrium]
    #1573088 - 05/23/03 08:58 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Mountain Girl did it. Oops! Sorry... :smirk:

Seriously, it is a really fun read, so enjoy! :laugh:


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Invisiblegdman
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Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 16,286
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Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: Papaver]
    #1573136 - 05/23/03 09:26 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

you guys read Garcia: An American Life?


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Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve


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InvisibleAdom
Totally Nude
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Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 10,875
Loc: Way Up North
Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: Delyrium]
    #1573328 - 05/23/03 11:03 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Remember although it's a good story it's not an accurate account of what went on. Transcending the Bullshit..... I love that line, Kesey was a Zen Master and he didn't approve of the book, him and Owsley agreed that they made it look wayyyy more like a joke than what they took it as at the time. You must read many books about that era to get a grasp on those times, and you have to had lived it to really understand it, which I don't think I do...


Edited by Adom (05/23/03 11:05 PM)


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Invisiblechinacat72
eyes of theworld
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Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: Adom]
    #1573745 - 05/24/03 01:42 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Adom is right. Kesey and Owsley have both said they don't endorse the book. It is a very good read though. I read it in my early teens and it was one of the first books to turn me onto the scene. Read it ,enjoy it ,but don't take it to seriouslly. :grin: 


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: Adom]
    #1573867 - 05/24/03 02:42 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

While that's true, I still think it's a fun read! :laugh:

Also, most writers fail to capture reality (occupational hazard), and most people written about have all kinds of issues. It's no different than what Sonny Barger thought of Hunter Thompson's book, "Hells Angels: A Strange and Terrible Saga." he hated it, and thought it was a bunch of bullshit, but that doesn't mean that Thompson didn't write and engrossing book, which captured some of the bigger social truths of those times, along with a lot of editorial license and home-spun hyperbole. It's just a matter of perspectives. there really is no one objective truth.

Truth is an ever-changing consensual arrangement between different individuals, moving through tim and space, and their cartesian single-point perspectives...


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OfflineLoveScarlett
Gypsy
Female

Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 43
Loc: The Sticks
Last seen: 6 years, 6 days
Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: Papaver]
    #1573921 - 05/24/03 03:09 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Damn, it's hard to have a book discusion without givin' stuff away to Del. But does anybody know the validity the book does have, as in the events that were depicted?



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So if she dies
And if you write of it
Being a writer and shit
Dulling it so you sleep again at night,
Alone or telling it to whores
Their minds are dull
But oh their cunts are in the proper place
You pay them but sometimes they like it too
And feel your wounds more eagerly than they feel you,
-- E. Hemmingway, Paris ca. 1926


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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: LoveScarlett]
    #1573931 - 05/24/03 03:17 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I believe validity-wise it is pretty true to events as they happened in the chronology of the times. The big issue that some people, who were written about in the book, have with the book, is that Wolf's stylistic treatment, which served his authorial ends, doesn't "gel" with how they remember or saw things, but again, truth is relative and fleeting (see above)...


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Invisiblechinacat72
eyes of theworld
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Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: Papaver]
    #1574107 - 05/24/03 06:46 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

How could you write a book and capture the whole essence of the acid test?
I mean come on, some things are beyond words and descpription. No writer could pull it off. I think this is why Kesey and especailly Owsley have rejected the book.
They were there and felt that the book didn't portray how it went down and lacked the vibe.
As I said who could of though? Wolfes a good writer. And Acid Test is a good book. I still own my copy. Even though Bear says that if anybody ever gets close to Tom Wolfe should "dose the fucker". :grin:

I agree with papavar though ,it is a fun read. I think that it should be part of junior high reading curriculum in every school. :cool:

 


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


Edited by chinacat72 (05/24/03 06:49 AM)


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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: chinacat72]
    #1574631 - 05/24/03 04:06 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, I agree! :smile:

I had an original first edition hardcover, that still had the original jacket cover, and was in perfect condition! I bought it for $9.00 back in the 1980s at a used book store. It's worth several hundred dollars now, but sadly it got damaged in a fire... :frown:

On an interesting coincidental note, I noticed I referenced HST's Hell's Angels book. It is interesting that the famous part in La Honda where the Angles met the Pranksters is detailed in both books. I haven't read either in a number of years, but I may revisit them both this year, just to see how the same events were portrayed differently by the two different authors. I have heard that Allen Ginsberg also wrote of this even, so that would make thee viewpoints! Does anyone know where Ginsberg's recollection of that party can be found?


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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: chinacat72]
    #1574649 - 05/24/03 04:14 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

China, I almost forgot...

An old girlfriend of mine used to be friends with Ken's wife -- they used to talk on the phone alot -- and when I was in a house fire, a couple of years ago, and I was laid up in the hospital and things were looking kind of "sketchy," the Keseys sent me this VHS tape with a lot of old footage from the 1964 bus trip on it. It's cool stuff! :cool:

If you've never seen it before, I can show it to you when you come out! :laugh:

PS: Ken Kesy was great man, he is missed... :frown:


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InvisibleLucidDream
Hungry BlueFiend
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Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 1,488
Loc: Planet of the Stupid Peop...
Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: chinacat72]
    #1574760 - 05/24/03 05:25 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Frankly, it's Wolfe's best book ever. His nonfiction has always been much better than his fiction, and this is one of the best books I've ever read.

The lack of endorsement by Kesey was probably due more to his different perceptions of the events. Wolfe must have realized that Mom and Dad and Buddy and Sis could never grok what was going on without turning on themselves. And if Kesey, a good writer in his own right, ever tried to capture the experience in a book, I'm not aware of it. Does that make Wolfe misguided for trying? I think he did a damn good job, far better than any other writer could have except perhaps HST. As for Owsley, it's been a while since my last re-reading of EKAAT, but he came across as an uptight counterculture businessman/asshole, so I'm not surprised he wouldn't embrace it.

Although a lot of their experiences are great fun to read about, there's an ugly undercurrent of peer-pressure to be one of the Kool Kids - are you "on the bus?" I can't help thinking how annoying and insufferable some of the Pranksters must have been in person. Props to Kesey for his enlightened ways, and his willingness to put his money where his mind was. He seems to have been a helluva guy. This world needs more like him...


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Sarcasm just one of my many talents.



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Anonymous

Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: Papaver]
    #1574957 - 05/24/03 07:44 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

the thing i remember about the book is the words Wolfe puts in ALL CAPS. there's only a couple of them. a fair warning, i think.

papaver, a friend loaned me a copy of what sounds like the same tape recently. the first half is the bus trip to the world's fair and back in '64 (kennedy's murder remembered in the eyes of america). the second is interviews with babs, and mountain girl and kesey and others. kesey is airbrushing a painting while he talks about the bus trip and la honda and perry lane and all. interesting stuff. cassidy is a trip!

they all seem like regular folks just having a good time on a big adventure. kind of demystifies the scene a tad for me, which is a good thing. :wink:

btw, sorry to hear about your fire, if you don't mind my saying. sounds like a close one. hope you're well now.   


Edited by Anonymous (05/24/03 08:03 PM)


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InvisibleDelyrium
lemonadeh.o.n.e.y.

Registered: 12/27/99
Posts: 5,941
Loc: vermont
Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: ]
    #1575015 - 05/24/03 08:21 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

hm - well i think in order to be able to sell a good book - you need to sell yourself out a little bit. You need to be able to not only get people who already knew about Kesey and the whole scene, but people who were just remotely interested in reading about it and learning. That's the problem with books - sure I could put out a book of the truth - but will people read it and like it? no because the truth is not always exciting and interesting enough for people to read - i think that is the pull that Wolfe had to use in order to get such great reviews and become a bigger name.

ahaha and im positive HST realized how it feels to have your life/work portrayed in a way that makes you cringe (look at the movie Where The Buffalo's Roam - HST HATED that... but did he actually like Fear and Loathing? I am curious to know that one.)


--------------------
Fuck Ted Nugent he?s a fucking jerk
I wish that he?d be gone
Chauvanistic republican
Kills animals cause he
Forgot how to write a song


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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: ]
    #1575783 - 05/25/03 03:40 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

> hope you're well now.

Yeah, I'm doing great, but then I always seem to do pretty well -- I like to keep it light and fun, and I'm easily amused. I could tell you stories about my crazy antics and madcap hijinks in the burn ward, but I'll spare y'all. Let's just say, I was the life of the party... :grin:

Del, Yeah that's a great point about HST and WTBR! :cool:


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Invisiblechinacat72
eyes of theworld
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Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: Papaver]
    #1575950 - 05/25/03 08:45 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:



If you've never seen it before, I can show it to you when you come out! :laugh:

PS: Ken Kesy was great man, he is missed... :frown: 




I have heard about the movie.
I havn't got to see it yet so that'll be fun. :grin: You bring the popcorn and I'll bring the Koolaid.  :wink:

Yes Kesey was a great man. I got to meet him at a show in Oakland years ago.
He reminded me of my grandpa with his firm handshake and his stern no bullshit way of talking.  He had very good energy and it was an honor to be able to spend a few minutes with him. :grin:

 


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
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Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: Delyrium]
    #1577250 - 05/26/03 12:04 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Tom Wolfe wasn't even at most of the events he described in such detail. And yeah, he never took acid did he?

Read "Storming Heaven" by Jay Stevens. It's a great book. Even Ol' Murple said he started taking psychedelics after reading that book.



--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: Dennis & The Times - Flight Patterns



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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: Learyfan]
    #1577720 - 05/26/03 04:25 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Murple never took acid... :wink:


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InvisibleAdom
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Registered: 09/30/01
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Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: Papaver]
    #1578840 - 05/26/03 05:37 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, ya I get all that but the dealy is old Tommy added alot of his personal opinion in there as well. I said I thought it was a good read and I mean it, that was the first book that got me into the impact of LSD on the human condition.  I read it about once a year just to remember the awe and amazement I felt when I first picked it up, it was the first book I couldn't set down and I read it in 2 days.  I love the book I just feel the need to let people know it wasn't approved of one of the few who started it all.  :tongue: :grin: 

I do see your point though, the story can still get to you, I remember reading it with out having taken acid and how eager I got(to dose) after reading it, so yeah, kesey and his clan still shine thru Mr. Wolfes opinions and over all it's just fine. :shocked:

Everythings just alright and perfect


Edited by Adom (05/26/03 05:42 PM)


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OfflineHooty
Reality isRelative

Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 2,467
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: transcending the bullshit [Re: gdman]
    #1579551 - 05/26/03 10:29 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)


Quote:

you guys read Garcia: An American Life?




I realize that gdman420 posted this way up the thread but yeah man i read it a while back, fucking awesome one of the best biographies i've read.


--------------------


Without love in the dream
It will never come true


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Amazon Shop for: Papaver Somniferum

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