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Pic heavy be forewarned thread (psilocybe sp. from Nov 28)
    #15436669 -

Psilocybe pelliculosa ...





A single Psilocybe growing next to a couple of Galerinas.




























































































:mushdance:

This next section is the larger, darker collection ...





























:mushdance:

This section is the lighter, yellower collection (possibly Psilocybe sylvatica)...











































More to follow... :earth:

Edited by The Lightning (11/30/11 01:26 AM)

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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: The Lightning]
    #15436817 -

:mushdance: Video#1 No audio (except for a staple gun and construction crew) view of 2 unusual collections (Yellowish and Large & Dark)





Edited by The Lightning (11/30/11 01:25 AM)

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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: The Lightning]
    #15436867 -

Great pictures and video! I am not convinced that they aren't the same species though. Morphology can be very dependent on the substrate they are growing from. I love the fact that you are shredding some light on a lesser known species. It's funny how much they look like semilanceata that are growing from wood chips.


--------------------
May you be filled with loving kindness.
May you be well.
May you be peaceful and at ease.
May you be happy.


AMU Q&A

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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #15437494 -

The last collection could be silvatica. It has a yellowish cap(A feature that is suppose to help distinguish silvatica from pelliculosa, although I have seen many mushrooms I would consider pelliculosa with yellowish caps). From your picture it seems these mushrooms where not growing in cespitose groups (pelliculosa grows in cespitose groups, silvatica dose not). Also there is no sign of blue bruising(pelliculosa sometimes bruises blue and silvatica does not).

As far as the variance between collections, mushroom species are often very polymorphic. However it seems likely to me that there may be several very similar species and or variety's that are currently lumped together as pelliculosa and silvatica.

A example of possible proof of this is that there have been recent observations by multiple people of "Psilocybe pelliculosa" that have pleurocystidia, a feature that is suppose to be absent on this species. Although it is possible that the current description of pelliculosa is imperfect and that this is the cause of this discrepancy.

Hopefully interest in these species will help clear up these issues. Nice finds and pics by the way.

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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: mushroomexplorer]
    #15437545 -

gsharp, you have the scope so its really up to just measuring the spore sizes of many different varieties until you find the right one i guess. the yellowish cap is suppose to be a distinguishing feature but thats just something stamets says. the ones in MJ'S book dont look yellow at all but then again we dont know if he measured the spores.

i commend you on your efforts. :bow:


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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #15437677 -


All four categories showed both abundant pleurocystidia and cheilocystidia, the only noticeable difference being in the largest, darker collection which had superlong pleurocystidia (keep in mind that an oil immersion lense and extremely thin gill cross sections are required for accurate cystidia measurements, so no measurements are being provided for cystidia).

Red Stem Category

Pluerocystidia at 150x


Pluerocystidia at 600x


Pluerocystidia at 600x


Cheilocystidia at 150x


Cheilocystidia at 600x


Cheilocystidia at 600x



White Stem Category

Pluerocystidia at 150x


Pluerocystidia at 600x


Pluerocystidia at 600x


Cheilocystidia at 150x


Cheilocystidia at 600x


Cheilocystidia at 600x



Larger, Darker Collection

Pluerocystidia at 150x


Pluerocystidia at 600x


Pluerocystidia at 600x


Cheilocystidia at 150x


Cheilocystidia at 600x


Cheilocystidia at 600x



Yellow pileus variety

Pleurocystidia 150x


Pleurocystidia 600x


Pleurocystidia 600x


Cheilocystidia 150x


Cheilocystidia 600x


Cheilocystidia 600x


Spore comparisons coming up next. :mushdance:

Edited by The Lightning (11/30/11 01:27 AM)

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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #15437792 -

Amazing thread! Keep the knowledge flowing man. You continue to amaze me with your dedication to the species :bow2:

maynardjameskeenan said:
It's funny how much they look like semilanceata that are growing from wood chips.


That is precisely what I was thinking. Especially the white-stemmed ones in the first grouping.


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Rod Tulloss said:

The bulb is the bulb.

The volva is the volva.

They have a very long term realtionship, but they’re “just friends.”

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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: suchen]
    #15437933 -

In the same order ...

Red Stem Spores




White Stem Spores




Bigger, Darker Specimens (spores)




Yellow Pileus spores



All spore prints macroscopically are purple brown. You can eyeball them though for comparison sake.

Edited by The Lightning (11/30/11 01:28 AM)

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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: The Lightning]
    #15437987 -

Damn cool nice work dude.


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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: xthrx]
    #15438239 -

:mushdance:

Edited by The Lightning (11/30/11 02:47 AM)

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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: The Lightning]
    #15438432 -

:earth:

Edited by The Lightning (11/30/11 02:47 AM)

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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: The Lightning]
    #15439427 -

gsharpnolack said:
In the same order ...

Red Stem Spores




White Stem Spores




Bigger, Darker Specimens (spores)




Yellow Pileus spores



All spore prints macroscopically are purple brown. No measurements will be provided apparently. You can eyeball them though for comparison sake.


i dont think eyeballing is enough to seperate peliculosa from silvatica . they have to be measured for a real confirmation IMO.

the spores and the Cheilocystidia are different sizes and thats really the only difference.


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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #15440041 -

Some or all of these could be Psilocybe washingtonensis. I realize that macroscopically they do not fit the description perfectly but then again no description is perfect. They do however microscopically resemble the description of Psilocybe washingtonensis much better than Psilocybe pelliculosa or Psilocybe silvatica. These mushrooms have pleurocystidia and variable cheilocystidia both features of Psilocybe washingtonensis and not Psilocybe pelliculosa or Psilocybe silvatica.

If these collections where indeed Psilocybe washingtonensis, the fact that they bruise blue would be a new observation for this species and would be evidence that they contain Psilocybin. If this where the case they should also be moved to a new section as they are currently in Psilocybe section Singerianae(All inactive Psilocybe).

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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #15440050 -

maynardjameskeenan said:
Great pictures and video! I am not convinced that they aren't the same species though. Morphology can be very dependent on the substrate they are growing from. It's funny how much they look like semilanceata that are growing from wood chips.


I agree, and I'm wondering not only about Dr. Guzman's dna sequencing but also about how scientific of an approach was taken to microscopically describe each of the actives, regardless of which publication and author produced the descriptions.

:mushroom2:

mushroomexplorer said:
...Also there is no sign of blue bruising (pelliculosa sometimes bruises blue and silvatica does not).

As far as the variance between collections, mushroom species are often very polymorphic. However it seems likely to me that there may be several very similar species and or variety's that are currently lumped together as pelliculosa and silvatica.


The same type of bluing primordia also occurred on the yellow pileus collection. I think polymorphism (phenotypes) will soon explain a great deal about mushrooms in general, side-by-side with dna sequencing. Moreso, I think we have a fair share to learn about in gill development (from a newly forming gill to a gill that begins to succumb to decay).

:greenshroom:

suchen said:
Amazing thread! Keep the knowledge flowing man.


Thanks. I'm trying. I think next season will be a bit more helpful and I think more microscopy will be displayed.

xthrx said:
Damn cool nice work dude.


Thanks! :earth:

psylosymonreturns said:
i dont think eyeballing is enough to seperate peliculosa from silvatica . they have to be measured for a real confirmation IMO.

the spores and the Cheilocystidia are different sizes and thats really the only difference.


True, and with only 600x magnification right now, I feel I would be taking vain and untrustworthy measurements - and I avoid vanity. I'm hopeful that I can get my new scope up and running within the next several days (I'm just waiting on a replacement oil objective). My suspicions are that even after oil immersion measurements, we would all still have a sense of "maybe" going on because we lack knowledge about the many, amazing stages of gill growth and development - not to mention the different ways a gill cross section can be viewed under a scope. I love your bonsai azures btw, psilo!

:mushdance:

mushroomexplorer said:
Some or all of these could be Psilocybe washingtonensis.


I really don't think there is a single accurate, complete description of Psilocybe washingtonensis let alone photographs that provide us with any certainty about its features. Maybe you have a publication about it with pics?

Edited by The Lightning (11/29/11 12:54 PM)

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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: The Lightning]
    #15440084 -

My gut tells me they are all the same. Obviously past descriptions are all we have to go off of, but view them with a healthy skepticism. They may or may not be correct/valid as we see so often in this hobby.


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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: ehtdaedlufetarg]
    #15440181 -

Awesome thread OP, I love when people have this much dedication to expanding our knowledge of the various genera. 

Makes me wish I had a microscope and the ability and knowledge to use it. One day perhaps. 

Keep the info coming, very fascinating and a well documented attempt to ID the lesser known species in Psilocybe.

:headbanger:


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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: amilibertine]
    #15440268 -

there is also this species to consider and compare and make things more confusing. :lol:.

Psilocybe semiinconspicua

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybe_semiinconspicua


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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: psylosymonreturns]
    #15477797 -

I suspected that these may Be Psilocybe washingtonensis and I noticed that on Mushroomobserver Alan Rockefeller proposed this name as well. I was just wondering others thoughts on this. It does match the microscopic description for this species better than silvatica or pelliculosa. The fact that it bruises blue is of some interest to me. This would mean that there is another active Psilocybe we can ad to the list for the pacific northwest:grin:. Your thoughts-----

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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: mushroomexplorer]
    #15477832 -

I also suspect it is possible that the description for Psilocybe pelliculosa is flawed and when "Psilocybe washingtonensis" was discovered and found to have features different to Psilocybe pelliculosa it was named as a distinct species, when in fact it is synonymous with Psilocybe pelliculosa. This very well may not be the case, but it is possible.

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Re: Section semilanceata thread (pelliculosa, sylvatica) [Re: mushroomexplorer]
    #15478304 -

mushroomexplorer said:
I also suspect it is possible that the description for Psilocybe pelliculosa is flawed and when "Psilocybe washingtonensis" was discovered and found to have features different to Psilocybe pelliculosa it was named as a distinct species, when in fact it is synonymous with Psilocybe pelliculosa. This very well may not be the case, but it is possible.



The real P. pelliculosa exists - The type collection has been examined by Stamets with a SEM (The Genus Psilocybe pages 444 - 446), and Workman has confirmed collections that do not have pleurocystidia.

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