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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #15219312 -

There will always be a conspiracy theorist somewhere ready to say that anything is fake. Not to say that false things aren't reported because that surely does occur too often. But we are talking about Iran here. A crazy theocracy. So I don't see why people think this is so unbelievable. There is no room for theocracies in an advanced and civilized future. Ali Khamenei and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad have both displayed undeniable signs of corruption. It is unfair to the Iranian people that they have such power. Mousavi probably won the 2009 election but Iran obviously doesn't have anything close to democracy.

But of course the UN won't do shit about this. You can commit almost any crime if you have enough power and influence and the worst you'll get is a smack on the wrist.

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Re: Iranian Plots *DELETED* [Re: fireworks_god]
    #15219351 -

Post deleted by StateOfMind404

Reason for deletion: :x


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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: 404]
    #15219671 -

In my post above about Iran's prior actions showing they were "stupid enough" to have done something like this, I forgot to mention some of the more relevant examples of this crap hapening in the past.

Ali Akbar Tabatabai was murdered in the US by an assasin working for Iran in response to Tabatabai's criticism of the Iranian state and meetings with others opposed to the Iranian revolution.  The assasin, David Belfield (now Salahuddin), was employed by Iran as a security guard at Iran's Washington DC office, and fled to Iran after the murders.  He's given television interviews from Tehran admitting to the killing and for being hired by Iran to kill the guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawud_Salahuddin

Then there's the other murders that keep happening up until recent times of Iranian dissidents, critics, and so forth.  The "supreme leader" of Iran denied Iranian involvement, and then some years later, after journalists uncovered more evidence, things changed and Iran admitted involvement but blamed rogue state actors :rolleyes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_murders_of_Iran#Killings

Iran's been doing this kind of nonsense for a while now.  I don't know anything about this recent example, but to say that this kinda thing is out of charecter for Iran is just ridiculous.  They're exactly what you get when you mix religious faith and 'holy' dictators.

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: johnm214]
    #15220197 -

Prove it.

i hate how you guys all assume so much.

prove that this intel is genuine.

im sick of you light hearted war mongers.

what is the motive?

until then, shut up or put up.

get real.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: The_Aviator]
    #15220249 -

The_Aviator said:
There will always be a conspiracy theorist somewhere ready to say that anything is fake. Not to say that false things aren't reported because that surely does occur too often. But we are talking about Iran here. A crazy theocracy. So I don't see why people think this is so unbelievable. There is no room for theocracies in an advanced and civilized future. Ali Khamenei and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad have both displayed undeniable signs of corruption. It is unfair to the Iranian people that they have such power. Mousavi probably won the 2009 election but Iran obviously doesn't have anything close to democracy.

But of course the UN won't do shit about this. You can commit almost any crime if you have enough power and influence and the worst you'll get is a smack on the wrist.


Are you people not even aware of Eric holder and others being subpoenaed over fast and furious and now we're to believe some used carsalesmen is involved in terror plots? context is pretty important here.. You're acting like this Iranian plot just came out of nowhere

This is on the level of WMDs in Iraq...


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You're gonna get hurt real bad :smile:

They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind

Edited by AsAboveSoBelow (10/13/11 03:53 PM)

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: Shins] * 2
    #15220362 -

Shins said:
Prove it.

i hate how you guys all assume so much.

prove that this intel is genuine.

im sick of you light hearted war mongers.

what is the motive?

until then, shut up or put up.

get real.


you assume its not genuine. I hate how you assume so much.

prove that this intel is not genuine.

If you insist that this is a plot to get us into a war, then why not let this plan succeed? Surely an iranian motivated attack within US borders would be a far better excuse to go to war then a foiled plot.


--------------------


∞
I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: snoot]
    #15220472 -

In science and justice, the burden of proof is on the one making the claims.

too bad you guys know more about war mongering than science or justice, obviously.

pathetically ignorant and gulliable.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: snoot]
    #15220476 -

that's not how it works.. the people making the accusations are the ones that have to provide evidence.

Quote:
The White House spokesman, Jay Carney, would not go further than to say the plot “clearly involved senior levels of the Quds Force.” But other American officials, armed with evidence such as bank transfers and intercepted telephone calls and with knowledge of how the covert unit operated in the past, said they believed that Iran’s senior leaders were likely complicit in the plot.


Quote:
American officials offered no specific evidence linking the plot to Iran’s most senior leaders. But they said it was inconceivable in Iran’s hierarchy that the leader of the shadowy Quds Force, Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani, was not directly involved, and that the country’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, was not aware of such a plan.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/13/us/iran-sees-terror-plot-accusation-as-diversion-from-wall-street-protests.html?_r=2&hp

that's rock solid evidence..


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You're gonna get hurt real bad :smile:

They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: Shins]
    #15220492 -

Shins said:
In science and justice, the burden of proof is on the one making the claims.

too bad you guys know more about war mongering than science or justice, obviously.

pathetically ignorant and gulliable.


you know they can't wait to pull up a chair and watch the War on t.v. I really hope all these scumbags get to experience war for themselves one day..


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You're gonna get hurt real bad :smile:

They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: AsAboveSoBelow]
    #15220530 -

"thats rock solid evidence"

Not.

nice sarcasm.

Right, all it is is an accusation. no evidence.

why it is unimaginable to some people that factions in the USA would want to pin it on the iranian government for political reasons is just a downright irresponsible folly.

unacceptable gulliability.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: Shins]
    #15220585 -

Shins said:
why it is unimaginable to some people that factions in the USA would want to pin it on the iranian government for political reasons is just a downright irresponsible folly.



because kind little angels run our government, everybody knows that. they would never make up any stories just to goto war with another country


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You're gonna get hurt real bad :smile:

They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: Shins]
    #15220688 -

Shins said:
In science and justice, the burden of proof is on the one making the claims.

too bad you guys know more about war mongering than science or justice, obviously.

pathetically ignorant and gulliable.



I have no idea what is true here but you seem to.  How do you come by this information/knowledge?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: Icelander]
    #15220721 -

He read it on the internet.

Don't you know everything you see there is true?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #15220773 -

i read into things more than just reading a bias news article.

I simply investigate further using scientific method.

history, economics, politics, theocracy... the things most people find boring.

i dont know everything, but some things are glaringly obvious to the  informed.

PS: The internet is just one of many forms of mediums for informmtion that just happens to be on the cutting edge.

it doesnt matter what platform media is presented on, it matters that it can be backed up empirically.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: Shins]
    #15220964 -

Can you give some specifics  here?  Something specific and to the point.  Otherwise...:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: Shins] * 1
    #15221013 -

No one is refuting the idea that this may be used to motivate some kind of action. However to say it didnt happen without providing any kind of argument or evidence besides claiming you're so informed and read so well between the lines that you can come to such a conclusion without any basis of any kind, is somewhat laughable.

Do I expect to know all the details pertaining to such an event? No.
Do I believe everything the media/gov't says? No.
Do I jump to conclusions based on nothing? No.

So how bout you provide an argument AT THE VERY LEAST as to why you think these things, besides just calling people who want to discuss this event pathetically ignorant.

PROVE THIS INTEL IS GENUINE! HAHAHAHAHA I could say that about anything I hear from anyone, without much success.

If shins isn't involved in the event or make the arrest himself, naturally between the lines is where you will find him, all confused and making lil sense.


--------------------


∞
I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: Icelander]
    #15221028 -

isn't it common sense? Do prosecutors go into court and tell the defense to provide the evidence of guilt instead of the prosecutor? No, that's fucking insane. Are we in the twilight zone or...?


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You're gonna get hurt real bad :smile:

They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: AsAboveSoBelow]
    #15221055 -

AsAboveSoBelow said:
isn't it common sense? Do prosecutors go into court and tell the defense to provide the evidence of guilt instead of the prosecutor? No, that's fucking insane. Are we in the twilight zone or...?



what? isn't what common sense?

I would concern myself with the scrupulous timing of this release, and not whether or not tehran was actually involved, or if it even took place at all. Luckily one of them is an American citizen and will most likely stand trial, so we may be afforded some details after all.


--------------------


∞
I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: Shins]
    #15222740 -

Shins said:
Prove it.

i hate how you guys all assume so much.


Prove what?  I mentioned a number of well documented cases with various evidence of Iranian involvement including Iran's admission, the assasin's admission from Iran, and so forth.

If you challenge some particular claim your going to have to indicate what it is.

Quote:
im sick of you light hearted war mongers.

what is the motive?

until then, shut up or put up.

get real.



calm down and stop being so nasty

Its a pain to talk to people who call everyone names and start this kinda crap whenever they dislike what another has said.

If you challenge something someone has said you need only indicate this, theatrics and name calling not required.

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Re: Iranian Plots [Re: johnm214]
    #15223190 -

AsAboveSoBelow said:
Are you people not even aware of Eric holder and others being subpoenaed over fast and furious and now we're to believe some used carsalesmen is involved in terror plots? context is pretty important here.. You're acting like this Iranian plot just came out of nowhere

This is on the level of WMDs in Iraq...


Do you really think it is that unbelievable? Of course I am aware of that but I think that is quite an assumption to think that this is being faked to distract away from that. Iran has done stuff a lot like this before.
http://www.examiner.com/homeland-security-in-chicago/wikileaks-reveals-previous-iranian-assassination-plot

Shins said:
Prove it.

i hate how you guys all assume so much.

prove that this intel is genuine.

im sick of you light hearted war mongers.

what is the motive?

until then, shut up or put up.

get real.


Possible motive - the Iranians wanted al-Jubeir dead because he is close to the Saudi king who told him that he wanted the US to "cut off the head of the snake," referring to Iran's nuclear program. I'm sure we'll be finding out more as time moves forward. Also, there is evidence in the money transfers that the FBI was monitoring. We don't know a lot yet but completely dismissing this is ridiculous.

And who ever said anything about war? Only you.

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