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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7847708 - 01/08/08 12:36 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

hey:shrug:, what can I say, at least you admit your argument is bankrupt.


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847720 - 01/08/08 12:40 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

SoY said:
It is not rational or logical to deny the possibility of us being purposefully mislead after there have been multiple instances where this has occurred. It is not rational or logical to accept on faith alone that we're not being lied to. It is not rational or logical to suppress skepticism in the name of patriotism.




That's a false dilemma. You're suggesting that everything is false until proven otherwise and that the only other option to this is blindly accepting everything.

That is not true.


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InvisibleSoY
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Registered: 06/01/06
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7847722 - 01/08/08 12:40 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

You can discredit someone by showing their claims are ridiculous




You have yet to discredit him. His argument stands on observations. I'm not sure what you base your's on....


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847724 - 01/08/08 12:40 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Suicide is against Islamic Law.

You must have missed the news about Islamic suicide bombers. :rolleyes:

Your gross generalizations of Muslims demonstrates your lack of knowledge of true Islam

Nope. It's YOU who is lacking knowledge.

Here is an excerpt of an interview with a Muslim suicide bombers whose bomb didn't go off:

"How did you feel when you heard that you’d been selected for martyrdom?" I asked.
"It’s as if a very high, impenetrable wall separated you from Paradise or Hell," he said. "Allah has promised one or the other to his creatures. So, by pressing the detonator, you can immediately open the door to Paradise — it is the shortest path to Heaven."


timesonline.co.uk


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7847727 - 01/08/08 12:41 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

what can I say, at least you admit your argument is bankrupt.




The only thing I admit is that this style of "debate" is unhelpful. Quit trying to make everything personal. If you want a flame war, take it OTD.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7847732 - 01/08/08 12:42 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)


sorry about the big picture*

I'm guessing the usa has been doing alot of "patrolling" and "searching" of all boats coming in and out of their.

I'm guessing there's alot more going on behind the scenes. Like "policing" their waters.

I can just imagine how hard the usa could make irans life, using "politics", but of course the only part of the story we hear is the part where iran is "hostel" and trying to start a war


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7847734 - 01/08/08 12:42 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Quote:

what can I say, at least you admit your argument is bankrupt.




The only thing I admit is that this style of "debate" is unhelpful. Quit trying to make everything personal. If you want a flame war, take it OTD.




I don't see a little M by your name. I do see a mod posting here and he has yet to state objections to any of my posts.


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InvisibleSoY
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847744 - 01/08/08 12:44 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

You're suggesting that everything is false until proven otherwise and that the only other option to this is blindly accepting everything.





Um....DUH! Either you submissively accept what you're being fed, trusting that the feeders are noble and just and truthful, or you have a healthy skepticism and eat only after examining and observing the food and are certain that it's not poison.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7847764 - 01/08/08 12:49 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

If you truly desire a reasoned debate then bring some facts to the table.

Smearing the younger generation and telling people "You are the problem" will only bring more heat than light to this discussion.

But go ahead and have your barnyard brawl if you want. :shrug:


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Offlinejasonpwnd
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847780 - 01/08/08 12:52 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Yidaki, what exactly is your argument at this point?

That Iran has no right to threaten U.S. warships near their borders?

That people who distrust what they read are stupid?

I seem to have lost your point.. :bongload:


--------------------

Disclaimer: Everything I say is a lie intended to make my e-reputation more prestigious.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #7847798 - 01/08/08 12:56 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

of course the only part of the story we hear is the part where iran is "hostel" and trying to start a war




When you hear the MSM accounts you have to ask yourself if they have forgotten the last four years. We have the memory spans of goldfish these days it seems.

As I stated earlier, I haven't made up my mind who's telling the truth regarding this incident. But given recent history it would be nice to at least ask some hard questions (before the onset this time) so we don't get manipulated into another BS war.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7847801 - 01/08/08 12:57 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

I don't need facts when my opponents' argument is completely irrational.

If you want facts read the article.


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847821 - 01/08/08 01:01 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

SoY said:
Um....DUH! Either you submissively accept what you're being fed, trusting that the feeders are noble and just and truthful, or you have a healthy skepticism and eat only after examining and observing the food and are certain that it's not poison.




It's a false dilemma because there are more than two options.
You can assume it is true. You can assume it is false. Either way you are submissively accepting either what you are being fed or what you have fed yourself.

OR

You could try reaching a conclusion after the facts are presented.


If you reach a conclusion before the facts are presented, you risk injecting your personal prejudice into the argument.


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InvisibleSoY
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7847825 - 01/08/08 01:02 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

An influential group of Muslim scholars in Indonesia have declared that suicide attacks, and terrorism in general, is forbidden by Islamic law." So says VOA News. "Members of the Indonesian Ulama Council, which brings together Muslim scholars to discuss the implementation of Islamic law, say that killing - especially of innocents - is contrary to the teachings of the religion.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/000437.php


Suicide-bombing of civilian targets is evil and prohibited under Islamic Law. I would tell suicide-bombers intending to attack civilians that they would be murderers, not martyrs, and that they would go to Hell, not Heaven.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/muslims_speak_out/2007/07/usama_hassan.html

My point is, with any religion there are radical cults and sects that are the minority and contort the values to further their own agenda. True Islam is not what suicide terrorists practice. They are manipulated by power-hungry *holy* men and are recruited to *save* their religion and freedom.

Think back to that *Christian* family that pickets military funerals. They are a cult that does not represent the true religion that the majority of Christians follow. Islam is a beautiful religion, but some have perverted the scripture to justify their heinous deeds.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


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InvisibleSoY
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847838 - 01/08/08 01:04 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

You could try reaching a conclusion after the facts are presented. If you reach a conclusion before the facts are presented, you risk injecting your personal prejudice into the argument.




Exactly. That is why one must remain skeptical until all the evidence has been examined. You are proving my point for me man.....


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7847881 - 01/08/08 01:12 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Suicide is against Islamic Law.

You must have missed the news about Islamic suicide bombers. :rolleyes:




He actually addressed it:
SoY said:
I believe it is you that does not understand Islam.  Suicide is against Islamic Law.  One who commits suicide is denied paradise and cast into the fire. However, radical cults and sects have manipulated this to classify suicide terrorism as "martyrdom" against their oppressors.


Quote:

Diploid said:
Nope. It's YOU who is lacking knowledge.

Here is an excerpt of an interview with a Muslim suicide bombers whose bomb didn't go off:

"How did you feel when you heard that you’d been selected for martyrdom?" I asked.



Again, he addressed that in the aforequoted post, and your example supports his statement.

Quote:

Diploid said:
You have to stop thinking with logic and common sense if you want to understand how these people behave and think.




Fallacious. In other words, we have to stop thinking with logic and common sense if we want to understand how you view these people.



Quote:

Diploid said:
I base my opinions on the available information.

At the moment, it looks like Iran was completely in the wrong. But journalists have a way of digging up the truth.

If the facts change, I'll change my mind.



"Iran was completely in the wrong" is certainly not based on any available information, but personal conjecture alone. Facts don't change, and what's been presented isn't enough to deserve having a mind made up in any direction.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847890 - 01/08/08 01:15 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

That is why one must remain skeptical until all the evidence has been examined.




Something else to consider is that all the "facts" may not be in evidence as of now. Information has a way of dribbling in over time with incidents like this.

Right now it seems like a He-said, She-said situation. It only seems prudent to wait for this story to develop further before drawing any firm conclusions. Especially given past history.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Annapurna1]
    #7847905 - 01/08/08 01:18 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
and faced with the genuine possibility of losing the 2008 election..the repubnicans have more incentive than ever to start a war...




That's actually one thing that's been on my mind lately.

The fact that the republican establishment might start a war to get elected or the insurgents starting a war because they WANT a war and they know a republican will give it to them.

I'll bet al Queda is keeping tabs on our elections as closely as we are.


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Offlinejasonpwnd
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7847906 - 01/08/08 01:18 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

YidakiMan said:
More irrational argument, ridicule.  You can discredit someone by showing their claims are ridiculous.  But you can't show someone is ridiculous by laughing at their point of view.



so far you don't have any claims or point of view, so how can you even argue except to be argumentative?
The only side you've taken was to say that you're sick of us for always saying america sucks lately..
when the truth is that we have gathered what evidence there is thusfar and put it together to make a decision about who was right and who was wrong. (which is what you said people should do)
ANYWAY... :drama:
So far I'd have to say that both countries are wrong.

for the sake of the thread what is your take on what we know so far?


--------------------

Disclaimer: Everything I say is a lie intended to make my e-reputation more prestigious.


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7847959 - 01/08/08 01:29 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

jasonpwnd said:
for the sake of the thread what is your take on what we know so far?




I'm thanking all the heavenly powers that I can think of for the commander that had the restraint to not press the trigger.

And I don't have to take any side. Because "with us or against us" is just another logical fallacy.

I prefer to sit on my side and point out other sides' errors in judgment.


Edited by YidakiMan (01/08/08 01:38 PM)


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