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Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships
    #7843405 -

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/07/iran.us.navy/index.html

Quote:
Five Iranian Revolutionary Guard boats "harassed and provoked" three U.S. Navy ships early Sunday in international waters, the U.S. military said Monday, calling the encounter a "significant" confrontation.


Quote:
The U.S. Navy also received a radio transmission that officials believe came from the Iranian boats. The transmission said, "I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes," the U.S. military officials told CNN.




.. probably trying to coerce the U.S. ships into firing on them so they can look like innocent little victims.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: BrAiN]
    #7843482 -

Or perhaps the Bush admin is trying to create an incident.

They certainly don't have a history of clean hands when it comes to rationales for war.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7843519 -

zorbman said:
Or perhaps the Bush admin is trying to create an incident.

They certainly don't have a history of clean hands when it comes to rationales for war.


is it hard not trying to jump to conclusions?


--------------------
https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Syle]
    #7844248 -



--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: afoaf]
    #7844358 -

Sounds like Gulf of Tonkin to me.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Syle]
    #7844389 -

Syle said:
zorbman said:
Or perhaps the Bush admin is trying to create an incident.

They certainly don't have a history of clean hands when it comes to rationales for war.


is it hard not trying to jump to conclusions?


Who said that was a conclusion? Did he not say perhaps? What is your conclusion from the incident? This administration has constantly twisted the thruths to further their needs and when "unnamed" sources are quoted I start smelling bullshit. Where is a copy of the radio transmission? Where are the white boxes? Surely the Navy took one as evidence. Its always best to doubt what the government says, do you not agree?

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: vintage_gonzo]
    #7844394 -

vintage_gonzo said:
Syle said:
zorbman said:
Or perhaps the Bush admin is trying to create an incident.

They certainly don't have a history of clean hands when it comes to rationales for war.


is it hard not trying to jump to conclusions?


Who said that was a conclusion? Did he not say perhaps? What is your conclusion from the incident? This administration has constantly twisted the thruths to further their needs and when "unnamed" sources are quoted I start smelling bullshit. Where is a copy of the radio transmission? Where are the white boxes? Surely the Navy took one as evidence. Its always best to doubt what the government says, do you not agree?


or, maybe it's best to doubt the intentions of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. could go either way.


--------------------
https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Syle]
    #7844427 -

Well no shit its best to doubt the IRG, but does that mean that you should automatically become a lap dog for the government? Both groups are full of bullshit, why not think for yourself and see it all?

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: vintage_gonzo]
    #7844509 -

"I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes,"

-

Prank Call! Those crazy Iranian teens

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: xFrockx]
    #7844876 -

xFrockx said:
Sounds like Gulf of Tonkin to me.


Exactly what I thought when I first heard it. Does anyone know what the Iranians say about this?


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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: BrAiN]
    #7844905 -

Thank god people had enough sense not to ignite WWIII.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Minstrel]
    #7844921 -

They say, "praise allah, he protected us from the mean ole US warships and clogged their guns with his porkfree mojo."


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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #7844931 -

The_Red_Crayon said:
Thank god people had enough sense not to ignite WWIII.


A single soldier with a machine gun can't start a war. Commanders are the ones who decide to press a charge. If the higher ups wanted to start a war, there would be one.


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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Minstrel]
    #7845102 -

Minstrel said:
The_Red_Crayon said:
Thank god people had enough sense not to ignite WWIII.


A single soldier with a machine gun can't start a war. Commanders are the ones who decide to press a charge. If the higher ups wanted to start a war, there would be one.


Well some soldiers in Lebanon kidnapped a isreali soldier and it started a very large war over that one soldier, I think you stand corrected.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #7845128 -

World War I was also catalyzed by a pretty insignificant person in other respects.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Syle]
    #7845261 -

Quote:
zorbman said:
Or perhaps the Bush admin is trying to create an incident.

They certainly don't have a history of clean hands when it comes to rationales for war.



Quote:
is it hard not trying to jump to conclusions?


Is it hard to comprehend the word "perhaps"?

Personally, anytime either side speaks I go for my bullshit detector.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Minstrel]
    #7846794 -

> A single soldier with a machine gun can't start a war.

History is against you on this one.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Seuss]
    #7846863 -

Seuss said:
> A single soldier with a machine gun can't start a war.

History is against you on this one.


For example, world war one was caused by a single assassination.

I don't know off the top of my head any single person with a gun starting a war though, I mean, without assassinating someone really important.


--------------------
*_*_*_*_*_*_* Kidaihuan's fucked up White Widow grow thread! *_*_*_*_*_*_*

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: kidaihuan]
    #7846914 -

Ohh no, the Iranians stuck their tongues out at me. :emocry:

Maybe if America wasn't looking for trouble, they wouldn't get it. :shrug:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7847060 -

Patrolling international waters is hardly looking for trouble.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7847113 -

How could sending ships to Iran not be looking for trouble? If we didn't want to send any bad signals, we would only have to have stayed 15mi out to remain in international waters IIRC. So basically, they were patrolling pretty damn close to Iran. If an Iranian warship was 10 mi outside of New York City, what do you think we'd do? Duhh.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7847116 -

Diploid said:
Patrolling international waters is hardly looking for trouble.


Yes it is.

What the fuck else do you think they're patrolling for?

They go out and patrol to find trouble.


--------------------
*_*_*_*_*_*_* Kidaihuan's fucked up White Widow grow thread! *_*_*_*_*_*_*

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: xFrockx]
    #7847120 -

How could sending ships to Iran

Sending ships to INTERNATIONAL WATERS* like every other nation with a boat does every day.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7847127 -

Diploid said:
How could sending ships to Iran

Sending ships to INTERNATIONAL WATERS* like every other nation with a boat does every day.


Yeah... a ten minute sail in the right direction and WAM you hit Iran.

But no, that's not too close!


--------------------
*_*_*_*_*_*_* Kidaihuan's fucked up White Widow grow thread! *_*_*_*_*_*_*

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: kidaihuan]
    #7847129 -

Like fuck, why don't we just go stand on the sidewalk in front of your house and wave our guns around?

It's not your property we're on.


--------------------
*_*_*_*_*_*_* Kidaihuan's fucked up White Widow grow thread! *_*_*_*_*_*_*

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: kidaihuan]
    #7847130 -

Should you be arrested for trespassing on my property when you stand 10 feet away from my property?

And I think you should read the OP again. Nobody was "waving guns around" except the Iranians.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7847147 -

A U.S. Warship is a pretty BFG.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: xFrockx]
    #7847166 -

Having a gun is not the same thing as "waving it around".

The Iranians were the ones waving guns around. The US ships were simply doing their job in International Waters.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: kidaihuan]
    #7847182 -

kidaihuan said:
Seuss said:
> A single soldier with a machine gun can't start a war.

History is against you on this one.


For example, world war one was caused by a single assassination.




:rofl2:This cracked me up.


--------------------

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7847195 -

Diploid said:
Having a gun is not the same thing as "waving it around".

The Iranians were the ones waving guns around. The US ships were simply doing their job in International Waters.


One country does not have the 'job' of patrolling the rest of the world.


--------------------
*_*_*_*_*_*_* Kidaihuan's fucked up White Widow grow thread! *_*_*_*_*_*_*

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7847200 -

One gun might cause a war to explode... but only if there has beent ension BUILDING and BUILDING

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: kidaihuan]
    #7847205 -

One country does not have the 'job' of patrolling the rest of the world.

Every country has the right to have ships in International Waters.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7847258 -

Diploid said:
One country does not have the 'job' of patrolling the rest of the world.

Every country has the right to have ships in International Waters.


But you make it sound like it is a responsibility for the US.


--------------------
*_*_*_*_*_*_* Kidaihuan's fucked up White Widow grow thread! *_*_*_*_*_*_*

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: kidaihuan]
    #7847268 -

It's the US's responsibility to watch out for its interests and part of that means patrolling International Waters.

You make it sound like it's Iran's responsibility to harass US ships that aren't bothering anyone.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7847318 -

international seems to just be a title here

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/07/iran.us.navy/index.html#cnnSTCOther1
Quote:
The Strait of Hormuz, which is in international waters, is near much of the world's oil supplies.


Sounds like we shouldn't have been there anyway, all this comotion is a result of three badass U.S. guided missile cruisers chillin' around where Iran keeps its most precious resources. That would be like if there was an international strait that went through the pentagon's back yard and russia just decided to come check out the scenery. - What would we have done?


--------------------

Disclaimer: Everything I say is a lie intended to make my e-reputation more prestigious.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7847326 -

Quote:
What would we have done?


Forget it jasonpwnd, most of these hard-heads here are incapable of seeing the same situation from a different perspective.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7847345 -

Sounds like we shouldn't have been there anyway

Sounds like you don't know what "International Waters" means.

By the way, there are OTHER countries adjacent to the Strait of Hormuz. None of them attacked any US ships claiming like Iran apologists that we shouldn't be there. Only Iran.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7847351 -

none of the others know that we have interest in invading their country


--------------------

Disclaimer: Everything I say is a lie intended to make my e-reputation more prestigious.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7847360 -

Nobody's going to invade Iran. That's Bush bluster and apologist bullshit.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7847373 -

Why do people still blindly swallow the tainted seed of this administration? It's possible that this event happened as reported, but it smells a little like Gulf of Tonkin to me. None of us were there, and none of us really know the truth. It is possible this event never even occurred.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847381 -

I base my opinions on the available information.

At the moment, it looks like Iran was completely in the wrong. But journalists have a way of digging up the truth.

If the facts change, I'll change my mind.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7847385 -

Fair enough.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7847399 -

What would we have done?

We would have watched carefully to make sure they didn't stray into our territorial waters or fired on our interests.

We sure as fuck would not have dropped boxes in the water and called on the radio to warn of an impending explosion. WTF was that supposed to accomplish?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847402 -

It just seems counterintuitive though. In a conflict between the two countries, the U.S. would benefit and Iran would suffer. It is unlikely that they would attempt to bring that upon themselves.

It's like at the schoolyard. When the principal asks what happened, the bully says he beat up the wimp in self-defense.....


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7847407 -

Diploid said:
What would we have done?

We would have watched carefully to make sure they didn't stray into our territorial waters or fired on our interests.

We sure as fuck would not have dropped boxes in the water and called on the radio to warn of an impending explosion. WTF was that supposed to accomplish?


Especially if Russia was involved in an ongoing high-profile operation in Virgina

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7847411 -

OK my bad, here's the down low on international waters in case you were wondering.

Just so you know neither Iran, nor the U.S. has ratified the UN's Law of the Sea, which entails all laws regarding the waters near and abroad. So according to both countries those waters were not international.

AND: Iran knows we have talked of at least quartering our troops in their country, with or without their permission.

You're telling me that if I threw this situation at you, you wouldn't investigate at all? (Keeping in mind these ships are capable of dealing serious damage, neither of you approves of the international waters rule, the other country has talked of quartering unwanted troops in your land (because these 'peace-keepers' have fucked up so much shit across the middle-east already), keeping in mind this is all happening very close to your biggest oil reserves (which are all your country is good for)...

Also, get your facts straight, nobody attacked anybody.

I'm not trying to insult you but your ethics are seriously fucked up, did you read this article or just take the quotes that were given to you and decide to blindly defend them to the death instead of opening your mind to what other people point out with facts?

Edit: I'm not saying that Iran was right to make that scene, but there probably wasn't a good reason for U.S. warships to be traveling through a free-trade route near oil reserves. Iran was right to investigate the U.S. ships.


--------------------

Disclaimer: Everything I say is a lie intended to make my e-reputation more prestigious.

Edited by jasonpwnd (01/08/08 11:13 AM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847430 -

It just seems counterintuitive though. In a conflict between the two countries, the U.S. would benefit and Iran would suffer. It is unlikely that they would attempt to bring that upon themselves.

You don't understand Muslims or Islam.

Dying, suffering, torture, decapitation, dead children, [fill in the blank with your favorite horror] are all perfectly acceptable if it furthers their moronic religious goals.

Dying in a war with the US only guarantees more virgins in heaven.

You have to stop thinking with logic and common sense if you want to understand how these people behave and think.

The logic that works in a schoolyard doesn't work with Muslims. Kids in a schoolyard are motivated to live. Muslims are motivated to get their heavenly virgins at ANY COST.

WW3 is a non-issue to these people. If the generations of ongoing, non-stop war in that part of the world doesn't demonstrate this to you, I dunno what will.

Also, get your facts straight, nobody attacked anybody.

Calling on the radio to tell someone their death is imminent followed by dropping something in the water in the path of the ship is an attack.

but there probably wasn't a good reason for U.S. warships to be traveling through a free-trade route near oil reserves

You don't need a good reason to be in FUCKING INTERNATIONAL WATERS near other US interests.

You sound like the cop that stops some poor slop minding his business at 3am because the cop decided that nobody should be out on the sidewalk at 3am.

It's a fucking sidewalk. You can be there any fucking time you want with or without a reason. Just like international waters.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7847441 -

exactly, so why go there and look for trouble in the first place?


--------------------

Disclaimer: Everything I say is a lie intended to make my e-reputation more prestigious.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7847453 -

Not to look for trouble. To protect our (and our allies') many interests in that part of the world.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7847487 -

Thank god Bush will be gone in a year. After 8 years in office, I'm sick to fucking death of this "America is always wrong" bullshit coming from America's young adults. It is a shame, the leaders of these misled youths are just like the Ori in Stargate. They gain power from your belief.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7847505 -

Its fucking amazing really.
Headlines:
America invades Iraq
Blame Bush!
America's Navy just averted a war.
Blame Bush!
Blame America!



Seriously this shit is boring.

Edited by YidakiMan (01/08/08 12:46 PM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7847558 -

Personally, I am proud that this generation has the balls to question authority.

But I don't think this type of skepticism is generational so much as observational. Most of us came of age after Vietnam and Watergate. More recently we witnessed the cherry-picking and distortion of intelligence used to justify the Iraq war. We don't swallow just anything before examining it first.

Once bit, twice shy.

We don't get fooled again.

Quote:
Seriously this shit is boring, grow the fuck up.


Take your own advice.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7847579 -

i would rather blindly distrust until facts are shown from which i can make my own decisions, than to blindly throw my allegiance to the place i was coincidentally born in.


--------------------

Disclaimer: Everything I say is a lie intended to make my e-reputation more prestigious.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7847615 -

zorbman said:
Or perhaps the Bush admin is trying to create an incident.

They certainly don't have a history of clean hands when it comes to rationales for war.


this latest incident w/ the boats positively reeks of a false-flag operation if you ask me...and faced with the genuine possibility of losing the 2008 election..the repubnicans have more incentive than ever to start a war...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7847620 -

zorbman said:
Personally, I am proud that this generation has the balls to question authority.

But I don't think this type of skepticism is generational so much as observational. Most of us came of age after Vietnam and Watergate. More recently we witnessed the cherry-picking and distortion of intelligence used to justify the Iraq war. We don't swallow just anything before examining it first.

Once bit, twice shy.

We don't get fooled again.



That's not rational or logical, that is guilt by association and it is holding up progress and it is holding up change. You are the problem that stands in the way of change.

Bush = Bad. I understand that you think that. I think everyone else understands this is how you think. That is why your side, our side, has self destructed.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7847649 -

Quote:
That's not rational or logical, that is guilt by association and it is holding up progress and it is holding up change. You are the problem that stands in the way of change.


:rofl2:



--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7847666 -

More irrational argument, ridicule. You can discredit someone by showing their claims are ridiculous. But you can't show someone is ridiculous by laughing at their point of view.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7847667 -

Quote:
Diploid said:

You don't understand Muslims or Islam.

Dying, suffering, torture, decapitation, dead children, [fill in the blank with your favorite horror] are all perfectly acceptable if it furthers their moronic religious goals.

Dying in a war with the US only guarantees more virgins in heaven.

You have to stop thinking with logic and common sense if you want to understand how these people behave and think.

The logic that works in a schoolyard doesn't work with Muslims. Kids in a schoolyard are motivated to live. Muslims are motivated to get their heavenly virgins at ANY COST.

WW3 is a non-issue to these people. If the generations of ongoing, non-stop war in that part of the world doesn't demonstrate this to you, I dunno what will.



I believe it is you that does not understand Islam. Suicide is against Islamic Law. One who commits suicide is denied paradise and cast into the fire. However, radical cults and sects have manipulated this to classify suicide terrorism as "martyrdom" against their oppressors. Our occupation of their sacred land allows their *holy* leaders to motivate young, ignorant Muslim men to commit suicide terrorism in the fight against the Imperial Satan (AKA U.S.). You fail to see that in their eyes, they are fighting for the freedom of their country, their religion, and their lifestyle.

Your gross generalizations of Muslims demonstrates your lack of knowledge of true Islam and the real reasons why some want to kill us.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7847692 -

YidakiMan said:
More irrational argument, ridicule.  You can discredit someone by showing their claims are ridiculous.  But you can't show someone is ridiculous by laughing at their point of view.


I felt derisive laughter was all the response your post deserved. :shrug:


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847706 -

Quote:
YidakiMan said:
That's not rational or logical, that is guilt by association and it is holding up progress and it is holding up change.


It is not rational or logical to deny the possibility of us being purposefully mislead after there have been multiple instances where this has occurred. It is not rational or logical to accept on faith alone that we're not being lied to. It is not rational or logical to suppress skepticism in the name of patriotism.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7847708 -

hey:shrug:, what can I say, at least you admit your argument is bankrupt.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847720 -

SoY said:
It is not rational or logical to deny the possibility of us being purposefully mislead after there have been multiple instances where this has occurred. It is not rational or logical to accept on faith alone that we're not being lied to. It is not rational or logical to suppress skepticism in the name of patriotism.


That's a false dilemma. You're suggesting that everything is false until proven otherwise and that the only other option to this is blindly accepting everything.

That is not true.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7847722 -

Quote:
You can discredit someone by showing their claims are ridiculous


You have yet to discredit him. His argument stands on observations. I'm not sure what you base your's on....


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847724 -

Suicide is against Islamic Law.

You must have missed the news about Islamic suicide bombers. :rolleyes:

Your gross generalizations of Muslims demonstrates your lack of knowledge of true Islam

Nope. It's YOU who is lacking knowledge.

Here is an excerpt of an interview with a Muslim suicide bombers whose bomb didn't go off:

"How did you feel when you heard that you’d been selected for martyrdom?" I asked.
"It’s as if a very high, impenetrable wall separated you from Paradise or Hell," he said. "Allah has promised one or the other to his creatures. So, by pressing the detonator, you can immediately open the door to Paradise — it is the shortest path to Heaven."

timesonline.co.uk


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7847727 -

Quote:
what can I say, at least you admit your argument is bankrupt.


The only thing I admit is that this style of "debate" is unhelpful. Quit trying to make everything personal. If you want a flame war, take it OTD.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7847732 -


sorry about the big picture*

I'm guessing the usa has been doing alot of "patrolling" and "searching" of all boats coming in and out of their.

I'm guessing there's alot more going on behind the scenes. Like "policing" their waters.

I can just imagine how hard the usa could make irans life, using "politics", but of course the only part of the story we hear is the part where iran is "hostel" and trying to start a war


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7847734 -

zorbman said:
Quote:
what can I say, at least you admit your argument is bankrupt.


The only thing I admit is that this style of "debate" is unhelpful. Quit trying to make everything personal. If you want a flame war, take it OTD.


I don't see a little M by your name. I do see a mod posting here and he has yet to state objections to any of my posts.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847744 -

Quote:
You're suggesting that everything is false until proven otherwise and that the only other option to this is blindly accepting everything.



Um....DUH! Either you submissively accept what you're being fed, trusting that the feeders are noble and just and truthful, or you have a healthy skepticism and eat only after examining and observing the food and are certain that it's not poison.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7847764 -

If you truly desire a reasoned debate then bring some facts to the table.

Smearing the younger generation and telling people "You are the problem" will only bring more heat than light to this discussion.

But go ahead and have your barnyard brawl if you want. :shrug:


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847780 -

Yidaki, what exactly is your argument at this point?

That Iran has no right to threaten U.S. warships near their borders?

That people who distrust what they read are stupid?

I seem to have lost your point.. :bongload:


--------------------

Disclaimer: Everything I say is a lie intended to make my e-reputation more prestigious.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #7847798 -

Quote:
of course the only part of the story we hear is the part where iran is "hostel" and trying to start a war


When you hear the MSM accounts you have to ask yourself if they have forgotten the last four years. We have the memory spans of goldfish these days it seems.

As I stated earlier, I haven't made up my mind who's telling the truth regarding this incident. But given recent history it would be nice to at least ask some hard questions (before the onset this time) so we don't get manipulated into another BS war.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7847801 -

I don't need facts when my opponents' argument is completely irrational.

If you want facts read the article.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847821 -

SoY said:
Um....DUH! Either you submissively accept what you're being fed, trusting that the feeders are noble and just and truthful, or you have a healthy skepticism and eat only after examining and observing the food and are certain that it's not poison.


It's a false dilemma because there are more than two options.
You can assume it is true. You can assume it is false. Either way you are submissively accepting either what you are being fed or what you have fed yourself.

OR

You could try reaching a conclusion after the facts are presented.


If you reach a conclusion before the facts are presented, you risk injecting your personal prejudice into the argument.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7847825 -

An influential group of Muslim scholars in Indonesia have declared that suicide attacks, and terrorism in general, is forbidden by Islamic law." So says VOA News. "Members of the Indonesian Ulama Council, which brings together Muslim scholars to discuss the implementation of Islamic law, say that killing - especially of innocents - is contrary to the teachings of the religion.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/000437.php


Suicide-bombing of civilian targets is evil and prohibited under Islamic Law. I would tell suicide-bombers intending to attack civilians that they would be murderers, not martyrs, and that they would go to Hell, not Heaven.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/muslims_speak_out/2007/07/usama_hassan.html

My point is, with any religion there are radical cults and sects that are the minority and contort the values to further their own agenda. True Islam is not what suicide terrorists practice. They are manipulated by power-hungry *holy* men and are recruited to *save* their religion and freedom.

Think back to that *Christian* family that pickets military funerals. They are a cult that does not represent the true religion that the majority of Christians follow. Islam is a beautiful religion, but some have perverted the scripture to justify their heinous deeds.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847838 -

Quote:
You could try reaching a conclusion after the facts are presented. If you reach a conclusion before the facts are presented, you risk injecting your personal prejudice into the argument.


Exactly. That is why one must remain skeptical until all the evidence has been examined. You are proving my point for me man.....


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7847881 -

Diploid said:
Suicide is against Islamic Law.

You must have missed the news about Islamic suicide bombers. :rolleyes:


He actually addressed it:
SoY said:
I believe it is you that does not understand Islam.  Suicide is against Islamic Law.  One who commits suicide is denied paradise and cast into the fire. However, radical cults and sects have manipulated this to classify suicide terrorism as "martyrdom" against their oppressors.


Diploid said:
Nope. It's YOU who is lacking knowledge.

Here is an excerpt of an interview with a Muslim suicide bombers whose bomb didn't go off:

"How did you feel when you heard that you’d been selected for martyrdom?" I asked.


Again, he addressed that in the aforequoted post, and your example supports his statement.

Diploid said:
You have to stop thinking with logic and common sense if you want to understand how these people behave and think.


Fallacious. In other words, we have to stop thinking with logic and common sense if we want to understand how you view these people.



Diploid said:
I base my opinions on the available information.

At the moment, it looks like Iran was completely in the wrong. But journalists have a way of digging up the truth.

If the facts change, I'll change my mind.


"Iran was completely in the wrong" is certainly not based on any available information, but personal conjecture alone. Facts don't change, and what's been presented isn't enough to deserve having a mind made up in any direction.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7847890 -

Quote:
That is why one must remain skeptical until all the evidence has been examined.


Something else to consider is that all the "facts" may not be in evidence as of now. Information has a way of dribbling in over time with incidents like this.

Right now it seems like a He-said, She-said situation. It only seems prudent to wait for this story to develop further before drawing any firm conclusions. Especially given past history.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Annapurna1]
    #7847905 -

Annapurna1 said:
and faced with the genuine possibility of losing the 2008 election..the repubnicans have more incentive than ever to start a war...


That's actually one thing that's been on my mind lately.

The fact that the republican establishment might start a war to get elected or the insurgents starting a war because they WANT a war and they know a republican will give it to them.

I'll bet al Queda is keeping tabs on our elections as closely as we are.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7847906 -

YidakiMan said:
More irrational argument, ridicule.  You can discredit someone by showing their claims are ridiculous.  But you can't show someone is ridiculous by laughing at their point of view.


so far you don't have any claims or point of view, so how can you even argue except to be argumentative?
The only side you've taken was to say that you're sick of us for always saying america sucks lately..
when the truth is that we have gathered what evidence there is thusfar and put it together to make a decision about who was right and who was wrong. (which is what you said people should do)
ANYWAY... :drama:
So far I'd have to say that both countries are wrong.

for the sake of the thread what is your take on what we know so far?


--------------------

Disclaimer: Everything I say is a lie intended to make my e-reputation more prestigious.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7847959 -

jasonpwnd said:
for the sake of the thread what is your take on what we know so far?


I'm thanking all the heavenly powers that I can think of for the commander that had the restraint to not press the trigger.

And I don't have to take any side. Because "with us or against us" is just another logical fallacy.

I prefer to sit on my side and point out other sides' errors in judgment.

Edited by YidakiMan (01/08/08 01:38 PM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: BrAiN]
    #7847982 -

BrAiN said:
The fact that the republican establishment might start a war to get elected or the insurgents starting a war because they WANT a war and they know a republican will give it to them.



Which candidates have made themselves out to be warhawks? McCain, Guiliani,
Quote:
I'll bet al Queda is keeping tabs on our elections as closely as we are.


Last time al queda attacked American soil, a Republican took office as President just a few months before.

Personally, I'm more frightened that Bush will exacerbate a national emergency and use it to stay in office after January 2009.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7848000 -

That would cause some serious rioting here in DC

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: BrAiN]
    #7848021 -

BrAiN said:
That would cause some serious rioting here in DC


The girlfriend and I have already agreed, if there were any delay in the Swearing-In Ceremony of the President then we would be on a bus to DC by the end of the day.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: BrAiN]
    #7848034 -

The other side:
Iran 'did not harass US warships'

An Iranian official has dismissed Washington's claims that IRGC speedboats harassed three US navy warships in the Strait of Hormuz.

The US vessels approached the Iranian boats in the Persian Gulf on Sunday, warning they were in the red zone, the official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Press TV on Monday.

He added that the Iranians had asked the warships to identify themselves, as such radio communications are usual between vessels in the Persian Gulf.

Although the Pentagon claimed that US sailors were given orders to open fire on the Iranian boats, the official confirmed no hostile encounter took place.

MD/HGH/RA

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7848051 -

And a semi-amusing blog rant:


Welcome to the Grand Guignol.

The only question to be asked is, “Are the American people as stupid as they have shown themselves to be in recent times?” What have we here? Five little motorboats appear- or so we’ve been told- to have threatened 3 United States Navy warships. I’m waiting to hear about another related but under-reported event which involved a handful of Iranian schoolboys throwing rocks at a Navy submarine. This event seems to have resulted in the submarine coming within minutes of launching a Tomahawk missile at the boys. The ship’s commander, who remains anonymous as does everyone reporting on everything concerning all of these incidents, said that the crew of the submarine felt gravely threatened by the boys and that several of them had to receive onboard counseling.

...

I’m going to state unequivocally that no Iranian motorboats threatened any U.S. Navy ships. It’s possible that the main shit stirrers in the Middle East (Israel), with the cooperation of the U.S. Navy, staged a kindergarten stunt in preparation for a coming false flag operation.

...

How big of a moron do you have to be to believe that Iran, which just had a major PR boost from the NIE report, would harass Navy warships with small motor craft? When dealing with psychopathic lying sacks of shit always look for the point of the action.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7848057 -

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,321005,00.html

Quote:
The U.S. military has video and audio recordings of Iranian boats that threatened to blow up U.S. Navy vessels in the Strait of Hormuz and plans to release them, the top Navy commander in the Mideast said Tuesday. President Bush described the confrontation as a "provocative act."

Vice Adm. Kevin Cosgriff disputed Iranian claims that the incident early Sunday was a routine encounter, saying Iran's "provocative" actions were "deadly serious" to the U.S. military.

"It was a dangerous situation," Bush told reporters at the White House. "They should not have done it, clear and simple. I don't know what their thinking was, but I'm telling you what my thinking was. I think it was a provocative act."

The confrontation was an unusual flare-up of U.S.-Iranian tensions in the Persian Gulf as Bush begins his first visit to the Mideast. In the tour, Bush is to visit Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Arab allies, in part to coordinate in confronting Iran.


I guess we'll have to wait for the tapes to be released before we can draw any firm conclusions. If, however, the reports I've read are accurate, then the commander on the scene was derelict in his duty and should be relieved of command instantly, if not court-martialed.



Phred


--------------------

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Phred]
    #7848118 -

Maybe they were hoping they could pull some prisoner shit like what happened last winter.

Then they realized... oh crap... the Brits are pussies... yea mayyYyYYbe we shouldn't do that to the U.S.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Phred]
    #7848135 -

Quote:
Although the Pentagon claimed that US sailors were given orders to open fire on the Iranian boats, the official confirmed no hostile encounter took place.


So a possibility is that either a false-flag or real-flag-but-need-an-excuse-for-war operation was trying to be executed by the higher-ups, but the commander, having some common sense and reasoning abilities, assessed that the Iranian vessels were inconsequential and nonthreatening, and violated his superior's orders to create a conflict.  Kudos to the commander for being rational and adverting the much-wanted excuse to fuck up Iran. :thumbup:

That's just a possibility of course...


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7848152 -

if so, i bet that commander donated to ron paul.


--------------------

Disclaimer: Everything I say is a lie intended to make my e-reputation more prestigious.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7848167 -

the Iranian vessels were inconsequential and nonthreatening

How can you come to the conclusion that calling up on the radio and saying "you're about be blown up" immediately after dropping boxes in the water in the path of the ship equals 'nonthreatening'.

Is it only threatening AFTER the declared threat of violence has taken place?

WTF?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7848172 -

I did not come to that conclusion, but obviously the commander did, or action would have been taken.

We don't even know if the boxes and transmissions exist. And like I said, given the beneficiary and loser of a U.S.-Iran exchange........ I highly doubt the event unfolded as the U.S. is reporting.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

Edited by SoY (01/08/08 02:16 PM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7848183 -

According to the reports, action was already in progress. The Iranians probably saw the Americans getting ready to respond and hightailed it back home.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7848198 -

For all those taking Iran's side in this: Speculate about what Iran's goal was with doing this in the first place.

What exactly were they trying to accomplish? Do they think we're going to drop everything and pull out of that part of the world now that they scared us?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7848220 -

We don't even know if the boxes and transmissions exist.

I'd wager that when the Fox report comes out, it will include audio and video of the incident and it will be substantially as the US has reported.

And like I said, given the beneficiary and loser of a U.S.-Iran exchange

This would make sense to me if there weren't suicide bombers in the world who clearly find death for their superstition more beneficial than life.

Read again the excerpt I linked earlier of an interview with one of these nutjob Muslims. You're assuming logic influences them. They're only influenced by their superstitions.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7848235 -

Quote:
You're assuming logic influences them. They're only influenced by their superstitions.


And your only capable of thinking in fatuous generalizations.

Even if audio comes out, we do not really know if it is the Iranian government. That is what we're told but that does not make it true.

Quote:
For all those taking Iran's side in this: Speculate about what Iran's goal was with doing this in the first place.

What exactly were they trying to accomplish?



That's my point. Logic supports the Iranians' account when you look at the beneficiaries and losers.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7848242 -

And your only capable of thinking in fatuous generalizations.

Did you read the excerpt I linked?

That's my point. Logic supports the Iranians' account when you look at the beneficiaries and losers.

Does logic support the act of a suicide bomber?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7848253 -

Diploid said:
According to the reports, action was already in progress. The Iranians probably saw the Americans getting ready to respond and hightailed it back home.


"Praise allah, peace be upon him, we pulled it off, Zahid. Now we know how close we can get with our bomb-boat (TM 10/12/2000) before the infidel fools react. We live to be future martyrs, lalalalalalalalala."


--------------------

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7848254 -

Even if audio comes out, we do not really know if it is the Iranian government.

Oh this is classic.

Bitch that we can't know what really happened because we weren't there and so give Iran the benefit of the doubt, but then if real evidence comes out showing Iran in the wrong, disavow that evidence.

You guys should do stand-up. :rofl2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7848261 -

Diploid said:
Even if audio comes out, we do not really know if it is the Iranian government.

Oh this is classic.

Bitch that we can't know what really happened because we weren't there and so give the Iran the benefit of the doubt, but then if real evidence comes out showing Iran in the wrong, disavow that evidence.

You guys should do stand-up. :rofl2:


Why?  They couldn't possibly be as good at it as they are at bend over.


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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7848278 -

The Iranians probably saw the Americans getting ready to respond and hightailed it back home.
if the commanding officer had wanted them dead - it WOULD have happened.

What exactly were they trying to accomplish?
exactly this -> they established the point that they don't want us there. now the american people know.. fah sho.

i for one have never heard of heat seeking boxes.. even if they were full of explosives - we would have to have be pretty close to get harmed by them and 200 yards or w/e isnt that close.

again the message is, stay away america


--------------------

Disclaimer: Everything I say is a lie intended to make my e-reputation more prestigious.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7848294 -

exactly this -> they established the point that they don't want us there.

Duh. They get the Captain Obvious award then.

And the Captain Stoopid award too, for thinking this will do anything other than bring MORE US military attention to them, not less. It will also bolster the Bush argument for invading them.

Stoopid Muslims? No surprise there. :shrug:

i for one have never heard of heat seeking boxes

Ever hear of a mine?

Remember reading news about the USS Cole?

No?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7848354 -

So what you're saying is that if our government pulled a false-flag operation and had one someone record whatever as evidence, and they said, "see, here is your proof this was the evil Iranians," you guys would just bend over and go "duh, okay."  :flowstone:  Dumb sons of bitches.  We'll trust the war-hawks when it has been observed throughout history that they lie and manipulate us into believing what they want us to in order to have their wars.

I'm not saying it didn't go down as the U.S. reports, but rather that it is too early to tell with any certainty, and that one is foolish and ignorant to blindly believe either way.

And Diploid, as per what you wrote, what do you think Iran's motives were assuming it happened as the U.S. reports?

In your speculation you keep equating the government of Iran with a suicide terrorist.  It is nonsensical and asinine to believe that the Iranian government wants a conflict with the United States.  Yes, they will send a few little motor-bomb-boats over to coax the U.S. into destroying their country.  Your logic is fuzzy.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7848368 -

Nobody knows why they did it(except maybe you), that's why I made a speculation.

and oh damn I've never heard of mines, they must be some new thing that isn't an explosive, like I just said and you quoted.


--------------------

Disclaimer: Everything I say is a lie intended to make my e-reputation more prestigious.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7848374 -

The current President of Iran is a confrontational poseur who is quite capable of ordering this. You are a knee jerk anti-American. Your repetition of the false Bush-lied meme does not make it any truer now than it was before. Thankfully you are not now, nor is there much chance you ever will be, in a position of responsibility of the magnitude of any one of those sailors.


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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7848375 -

Now I'm remembering why I hate the politcal threads.. Everyone and no one is right.


--------------------

Disclaimer: Everything I say is a lie intended to make my e-reputation more prestigious.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7848377 -

I'm right. Always.


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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7848409 -

:topicsucks: until we know more - and stop trying to tell everyone who is right when we don't know, we're all just taking shots in the dark so chill.


--------------------

Disclaimer: Everything I say is a lie intended to make my e-reputation more prestigious.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7848416 -

and oh damn I've never heard of mines

It didn't seem to me that you had considering your comment.

Quote:
even if they were full of explosives - we would have to have be pretty close to get harmed by them


These boxes were dropped in the path of the ship. Had an alert sailor not seen them, the ship could well have run into them. And 200 yards doesn't take long to cover in a boat besides. A few seconds at most.

So again, as with your apparent non-knowledge of mines, you also have no knowledge of what superstitious Islamic morons did to the USS Cole with a boat.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7848426 -

So what you're saying is that you don't really care what the truth of the situation is.

If I am a "knee-jerk anti-American" then you are a dimwitted, hardheaded, overly patriotic, ignorant dipshit who would fall for the same trick endless times. I love America. I despise ill-informed, knee-jerk paranoid, I'll-believe-whatever-you-say-without-question-uncle-sam, preemptive bullshit peddling, warmongers like yourself.

It's good to think critically of your government. History has shown how we have been mislead into wars, yet you are unable to accept that American politicians could ever do such a thing....


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7848452 -

I put it 95-5 that the Navy is telling the truth. I said nothing about it until there was a drumbeat of loons seemingly taking the exact opposite position, which position I find to be revelatory of a particular bias not born of experience, just bent.


--------------------

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7848469 -

Quote:
the Cole was attacked from a small boat by Al-Qaida[citation needed] suicide bombers, while she was harbored


different story there.

And im sorry for not knowing the explosion range of an unknown sized box in the water. We can't all be as knowledgable as you, I mean you must be a scholar, how else would you have such unbiased opinions/knowledge of the muslims as a whole community??
:whatever:


--------------------

Disclaimer: Everything I say is a lie intended to make my e-reputation more prestigious.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7848475 -

zappaisgod said:
I put it 95-5 that the Navy is telling the truth. I said nothing about it until there was a drumbeat of loons seemingly taking the exact opposite position, which position I find to be revelatory of a particular bias not born of experience, just bent.


I'll concur given the fact that Iran has been involved in so much shit ever since they helped with the bombing of the U.S. marine barracks in the previous Lebanon war in the 80's... yet continue to deny their involvement in everything.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7848508 -

Quote:
I put it 95-5 that the Navy is telling the truth. I said nothing about it until there was a drumbeat of loons seemingly taking the exact opposite position, which position I find to be revelatory of a particular bias not born of experience, just bent.


You could be absolutely correct, however I am doubtful.

Why would the Iranians do this?

It is extremely obvious who would lose in an U.S.-Iran conflict. Iran does not want any excuse for the U.S. to invade and occupy them, which is precisely what the U.S. reports imply they are trying to do.

Do you seriously think that Iran is baiting America into invading them? I speculate that the U.S. wants to be involved with Iran. I know that Iran does not want to be conquered by the U.S. Looking at those it is not difficult to see that it is likely that the U.S. isn't telling all.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7848537 -

Why would the Iranians do this?

For the virgins. You keep assuming logic is involved here. It's not.

The things that motivate you and me are not the same things that motivate irrational religious fanatics.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7848551 -

Quote:
Why would the Iranians do this?

For the virgins. You keep assuming logic is involved here. It's not.
The things that motivate you and me are not the same things that motivate irrational religious fanatics.


Right but you keep equating the government of Iran with a once-i'm-dead-I'll-have-virgins-and-punishment-won't-matter suicide bomber. What I'm saying is that Iran wouldn't do this. Maybe through proxies where they can't be directly linked and punished. But their official military would not send a death wish to the U.S. Navy.

C'mon man they are smarter than that.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

Edited by SoY (01/08/08 03:31 PM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7848597 -

But their official military would not send a death wish to the U.S. Navy.

The evidence is against you. Apparently there is video of military boats under Iran's flag doing exactly what the US is saying they did.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7848657 -

Apparently. Where is it then?


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7848676 -

In the works. You aren't paying very close attention to this thread.

CAIRO, Egypt — The U.S. military has video and audio recordings of Iranian boats that threatened to blow up U.S. Navy vessels in the Strait of Hormuz and plans to release them, the top Navy commander in the Mideast said Tuesday.

and

"There is video" of the incident, Cosgriff said. "We're using it as part of our assessment. That will be made available in due course, as well as the audio."

Here's Phred's link again: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,321005,00.html


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: SoY]
    #7848684 -

> Right but you keep equating the government of Iran with a

The government of Iran is not like governments that we are used to seeing. Iran's way of working is "fractured" where the various parts of the government do not know what the other parts are doing, nor do they share common goals or interests.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Seuss]
    #7848764 -

Quote:
In the works. You aren't paying very close attention to this thread.


Actually I have been following this thread all day and I have not seen a video or heard recordings. People can say what is on them as much as they want, but it means shit until I see them.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Seuss]
    #7849140 -

Seuss said:
> Right but you keep equating the government of Iran with a

The government of Iran is not like governments that we are used to seeing. Iran's way of working is "fractured" where the various parts of the government do not know what the other parts are doing, nor do they share common goals or interests.


Suess is right, Iran is a republic and its cadres are assigned to different tasks that dont always take their cues from the ayatollahs or ameninjad, These boats were trying to antagonize a response from the americans obviously. Cooler heads prevailed and their wasnt any hostility.

BTW, America has much of a right to international waters as any other country.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7849454 -

jasonpwnd said:
Now I'm remembering why I hate the politcal threads.. Everyone and no one is right.


Indeed. A complete waste of time. Well, at least nobody gets killed in internet forums.

Video and audio recordings are available from the BBC - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7177946.stm


--------------------
Every Animal Is Someone 🌱 watchdominion.org

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7849528 -

fireworks_god said:
Ohh no, the Iranians stuck their tongues out at me. :emocry:

Maybe if America wasn't looking for trouble, they wouldn't get it. :shrug:


We should nuke em. Lets hit em with everything we got. We been waiting for this.:thumbup: Then we can have their women. (except for the virgins in heaven of course)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (01/08/08 06:18 PM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Icelander]
    #7849602 -

Are you fucking kidding me? Have you seen their women?


--------------------

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7849663 -

zappaisgod said:
Are you fucking kidding me? Have you seen their women?


I've heard they have beautiful eyes.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7849717 -

If you like dull, lifeless mud.

Saw something that might be of some small explanation for what seems like near suicidal behavior by the Iran.

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/templateC05.php?CID=2548

Quote:
The most prominent expression of this doctrine was a series of naval battles with the U.S. Navy in April 1988. These took place during the final phases of the Iran-Iraq War, when hopelessly outclassed Iranian forces battled U.S. naval units in the Persian Gulf. Iran incurred heavy losses in the process. The experience taught Iran that large naval vessels are vulnerable to air and missile attacks, confirmed the efficacy of small boat operations, and spurred interest in missile-armed fast-attack craft. It also allowed Iran to expand the use of swarming tactics that form the foundation of its current approach to asymmetric naval warfare.




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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7849730 -

gulf of tonkin redux

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #7849788 -

Given your history of fallacious alarmist nonsense I would venture to guess


NOT


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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7850471 -

well the video clearly shows two speedboats coming way too fuckin close to our warships. crazy motherfuckers are lucky to be alive, of course they were prolly hoping for 100 virgins.


--------------------
buy the ticket, take the ride

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: sparks8]
    #7850604 -

sparks8 said:
well the video clearly shows two speedboats coming way too fuckin close to our warships. crazy motherfuckers are lucky to be alive, of course they were prolly hoping for 100 virgins.


Why are they lucky to be alive?

They have the right to be in international waters, too, right?

:smirk:

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: kidaihuan]
    #7850689 -

kidaihuan said:
sparks8 said:
well the video clearly shows two speedboats coming way too fuckin close to our warships. crazy motherfuckers are lucky to be alive, of course they were prolly hoping for 100 virgins.


Why are they lucky to be alive?

They have the right to be in international waters, too, right?

:smirk:


cuz we're america man, and we'll blow your fucking ass out of the water. do not...fuck with us.





























:wink:


--------------------
https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Syle]
    #7850811 -

These Persians should have been destroyed on the spot. Could have been suiciders looking to poke holes into some ships.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ll_1e8_1199720343


--------------------
Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7850948 -

jasonpwnd said:
OK my bad, here's the down low on international waters in case you were wondering.

Just so you know neither Iran, nor the U.S. has ratified the UN's Law of the Sea, which entails all laws regarding the waters near and abroad. So according to both countries those waters were not international.



"The United States strongly objected to the provisions of Part XI of the Convention on several grounds, saying that the treaty is unfavorable to America's economy and security. The US felt that the provisions of the treaty were not free-market friendly and were designed to favor the economic systems of the Communist states. The US also felt that the provisions might result in the ISA becoming a bloated and expensive bureaucracy due to a combination of large revenues and insufficient control over what the revenues could be used for.

Due to Part XI, the US refused to ratify the UNCLOS, although it expressed agreement with the remaining provisions of the Convention. Even though the United States is not a party to the treaty, it considers many of the remaining provisions as binding as customary international law."


No, we DO recognize those waters as international.  The concept of "international waters" extends back FAR before there even was a UN.  It's a *centuries-old* concept straight from the very same European traditions that..  oh hey that created this nation.


Disco Cat said:
And a semi-amusing blog rant:And a semi-amusing blog rant:


Welcome to the Grand Guignol.

The only question to be asked is, “Are the American people as stupid as they have shown themselves to be in recent times?” What have we here? Five little motorboats appear- or so we’ve been told- to have threatened 3 United States Navy warships. I’m waiting to hear about another related but under-reported event which involved a handful of Iranian schoolboys throwing rocks at a Navy submarine. This event seems to have resulted in the submarine coming within minutes of launching a Tomahawk missile at the boys. The ship’s commander, who remains anonymous as does everyone reporting on everything concerning all of these incidents, said that the crew of the submarine felt gravely threatened by the boys and that several of them had to receive onboard counseling.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uss_cole

Bloggers often skimp on actual facts and historical precedent so they can rant louder and more ridiculously.

Load a speed boat up with explosives and run it into a ship -- well gee, that boat's holding more explosives than a torpedo!  I bet it'd make a big kaboom.


Diploid said:
For all those taking Iran's side in this: Speculate about what Iran's goal was with doing this in the first place.

What exactly were they trying to accomplish? Do they think we're going to drop everything and pull out of that part of the world now that they scared us?


I refuse your challenge based on the fact that Iran is fucking insane and thus it is an impossibility to apply reasoning and logic to their actions.

I submit this old story as proof.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12131243

Iran announced it captured 14 secret spy squirrels.

I do not believe that a country that would actually announce to the world that it believes it captured squirrels secretly equipped with equipment to spy on them -- and which I can only presume gathered us unrivaled intel into the secret lives of iranian trees and nut-hiding-holes -- would have any reason to do anything that any of us could even begin to fathom.
I wouldn't be shocked if they announced they believe the US is responsible for poop.  by which I do mean feces.  THEY ARE BAT-SHIT INSANE.


kidaihuan said:
Why are they lucky to be alive?

They have the right to be in international waters, too, right?

:smirk:


I'd be willing to bet that there is a distance defined somewhere that vessels must keep unless permitted to approach closer, in the interests of not blowing up cruise ships mistaken for pirate ships..  or at the VERY least in order to prevent collisions of ships in international waters.
I'd further bet that the distance is a fair sight longer than 200 yards.


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #7851349 -

Great post.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #7851663 -

That post has everything, legal research, reasoned opinions/ thoughful commentary, and tree-born espionage of the squirrel variety.


+5

" do not believe that a country that would actually announce to the world that it believes it captured squirrels secretly equipped with equipment to spy on them -- and which I can only presume gathered us unrivaled intel into the secret lives of iranian trees and nut-hiding-holes..."

priceless

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #7851958 -

The_Red_Crayon said:
Seuss said:
> Right but you keep equating the government of Iran with a

The government of Iran is not like governments that we are used to seeing.  Iran's way of working is "fractured" where the various parts of the government do not know what the other parts are doing, nor do they share common goals or interests.


Suess is right, Iran is a republic and its cadres are assigned to different tasks that dont always take their cues from the ayatollahs or ameninjad, These boats were trying to antagonize a response from the americans obviously. Cooler heads prevailed and their wasnt any hostility.

BTW, America has much of a right to international waters as any other country.


:thumbup:

seems like people would rather give Iranian boats "making threats" the benefit of the doubt over American ships who didn't fire and exercised restraint. seems logical to me :rolleyes:

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #7852274 -

iranians should stay in the desert where they belong

any iranian ship is a pirate ship


--------------------



i need names and addresses of narc members

pm for details

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: kidaihuan]
    #7852395 -

> Why are they lucky to be alive?

Because they "buzzed" a naval war ship. It is kind of like shooting a tiger with a sling shot... not too difficult of a concept to grasp.

> I'd be willing to bet that there is a distance defined somewhere that vessels must keep unless permitted to approach closer

We had a US Navy Destroyer dock on island shortly (few days) after the Cole attack. We were told that anybody that got within 500 meters of the destroyer would be sunk.


The entire thing sounds like a recon mission by Iran to see how the US navy responds to new tactics. Iran now knows how quickly the US ships can move to evade obstacles, how quickly the US navy reacts to incoming threats, how close speedboats can get to US navy ships before being engaged, etc. Valuable information to have on your opponent.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: jasonpwnd]
    #7852412 -

jasonpwnd said:
i would rather blindly distrust until facts are shown from which i can make my own decisions, than to blindly throw my allegiance to the place i was coincidentally born in.


Blind belief in anything is the sign of a weak mind,

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Redstorm]
    #7852737 -

ya know squirrel spies are funny but have you ever heard of Operation Acoustic Kitty?

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7852754 -

YidakiMan said:
ya know squirrel spies are funny but have you ever heard of Operation Acoustic Kitty?


1. cat's are sociable around people
2. people pet cats
3. cat's don't hide out in trees


and:
"The first cat mission was eavesdropping on two men in a park outside the Soviet compound on Wisconsin Avenue in Washington, D.C.. The cat was released nearby, but was hit and killed by a taxi almost immediately. Shortly thereafter the project was considered a failure and declared to be a total loss."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_Kitty

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: johnm214]
    #7852784 -

You forgot to mention that they put the transmitter in its tail!


:rofl2:

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: johnm214]
    #7853039 -

Redstorm said:
jasonpwnd said:
i would rather blindly distrust until facts are shown from which i can make my own decisions, than to blindly throw my allegiance to the place i was coincidentally born in.


Blind belief in anything is the sign of a weak mind,


Well, he was talking about blind disbelief, which wasn't actually blind, since he identified the reason for disbelief as not trusting the source. But whatever.



johnm214 said:
YidakiMan said:
ya know squirrel spies are funny but have you ever heard of Operation Acoustic Kitty?


1. cat's are sociable around people
2. people pet cats
3. cat's don't hide out in trees


and:
"The first cat mission was eavesdropping on two men in a park outside the Soviet compound on Wisconsin Avenue in Washington, D.C.. The cat was released nearby, but was hit and killed by a taxi almost immediately. Shortly thereafter the project was considered a failure and declared to be a total loss."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_Kitty


Hilarious. You're trying to justify fitting a cat with espionage equipment, a cat which wasn't even specifically situated, but just let out in the open... while holding that it couldn't be true for a squirrel - without having a slight clue beyond a few self-deduced points.

I'm not saying that I've made any assumptions on the validity of the squirrel story, but it seems you're just too eager for a chance to say booya against Iran, if this is what you're resorting to.

It's really irrelevant that cats don't climb trees, etc. The squirrels were said to be fitted with mics. I might question whether it was really for spying, but there's nothing doubtworthy of the idea that they found something.
And if it was a dumb idea to fit squirrels with audio equipment, well... it wasn't Iran's.

Spinning this brief report into proof of Iran being crazy is a huge "sign of a weak mind." Fr srs, there's just no substance there to be had, it's a case of "everybody point your finger and laugh and pretend." Brilliant, very convincing, if you've got a weak mind.

Now while I thought it to be a very good possibility the US story against the Iranian boats would turn out to be true, I also found it quite possible to separate the information from a sense of personal validation. Thinking objectively is a skill some people here lack.
Saying Iran possesses no reason or logic, because they are crazy, because they found rigged squirrels, would be truthfully batshit crazy - but I assume Mushmonkey meant it mockingly and not 100% seriously (however you appear to take it completely seriously, since you're defending that train of thought). Again, thinking objectively (+logic) is a skill some people here simply don't appear to have.

Edited by Disco Cat (01/09/08 01:18 PM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7853336 -

well the lead story on CNN now is about the encounter.

"The Pentagon released dramatic video of Sunday's encounter, which occurred in the narrow channel critical to the shipment of oil from the Persian Gulf. Iran's navy said the video was faked, according to state-run media."

So it basically all comes down now to whether or not u think the U.S. military faked a video.

I don't think we had video of the Gulf of Tonkin incident.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: BrAiN]
    #7853610 -

I bet that the ships weren't even Iranian. They were probably just some drug smuggler's speedboats or something.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: xFrockx]
    #7853668 -

Probably hard to pass off a war/battleship with a speedboat.

Although I'd imagine, on video, it would be easy to forge the audio of the message that was sent.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: BrAiN]
    #7853681 -

Iran says US navy video is 'clumsy fake'
8 hours ago

TEHRAN (AFP) — Iran accused the United States on Wednesday of "clumsily" fabricating footage claiming to show Iranian speedboats harassing US ships, as Washington issued a new warning to its archfoe on the first day of a Middle East visit by President George W. Bush.

"The pictures that the Pentagon broadcast of the naval incident are file pictures and the voices have all been fabricated," the Fars news agency quoted a senior commander in the Revolutionary Guards as saying.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7853755 -

WTF is the Iranian national guard doing in a speedboat running up to a warhsip and threatening it?

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: BrAiN]
    #7853768 -

Searching for raisins.


--------------------

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: BrAiN]
    #7853801 -

They showed the motion of the speedboats in the "altercation" it just looked like they were passing by the US warships and some of them moved around either side of the 3 U.S. ships. It hardly looked like any display of aggression, their own video is a testament to how retarded the claims are that Iran was the aggressor here. In the video itself they say on radio that they didn't know the identity of the ships, what changed after they left?

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Seuss]
    #7853827 -

Quote:
Seuss said:
The entire thing sounds like a recon mission by Iran to see how the US navy responds to new tactics. Iran now knows how quickly the US ships can move to evade obstacles, how quickly the US navy reacts to incoming threats, how close speedboats can get to US navy ships before being engaged, etc. Valuable information to have on your opponent.


yep and we should have sunk them!

Phred said: "the commander on the scene was derelict in his duty and should be relieved of command instantly, if not court-martialed."

yep


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7853951 -

YidakiMan said:
You forgot to mention that they put the transmitter in its tail!


:rofl2:



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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #7854463 -

Here's the video

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=5884810&ch=4226713&src=news


--------------------
http://www.theamericanright.com/
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15838446
http://www.climatedepot.com




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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Luddite]
    #7855200 -

So why does the video footage switch from showing the bridge when the radio trasmission comes on? We can hear the response of the guy at the radio, why don't they show it? It seems the combination of sight and sound would be the only way to prove it.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7855219 -

Disco Cat said:
So why does the video footage switch from showing the bridge when the radio trasmission comes on?


To fuck with your head, dude, that's why they do everything.


--------------------

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7855248 -

Regardless, it's a grossly incompetent move, stupid to the max.

Iran claims they used file footage, which I assume is old footage. Without a match up of audio and video we have zero evidence that this picture correlates to the claimed event.
They might as well have released footage of an old man feeding ducks at a pond.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7855308 -

Disco Cat said:
Regardless, it's a grossly incompetent move, stupid to the max.

Iran claims they used file footage, which I assume is old footage. Without a match up of audio and video we have zero evidence that this picture correlates to the claimed event.
They might as well have released footage of an old man feeding ducks at a pond.



To you, I'm sure it would have made no difference. To rational thinking human beings I expect a different reception. Say, Rosie, can you tell us again how fire can't melt steel.


--------------------

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7855360 -

Disco Cat said:
Hilarious. You're trying to justify fitting a cat with espionage equipment, a cat which wasn't even specifically situated, but just let out in the open... while holding that it couldn't be true for a squirrel - without having a slight clue beyond a few self-deduced points.

I'm not saying that I've made any assumptions on the validity of the squirrel story, but it seems you're just too eager for a chance to say booya against Iran, if this is what you're resorting to.



I'm too eager to criticize Iran?  Cuz they claim to have found spy squirrels?

Untill proven otherwise, anyone claiming that the squirrles are spying on them should be viewed as crazy.  Good rule for life :thumbup:

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: johnm214]
    #7855402 -

johnm214 said:
anyone claiming that the squirrles are spying on them should be viewed as crazy.  Good rule for life :thumbup:


Indeed.


--------------------

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: johnm214]
    #7855740 -

Didn't Bush pardon a turkey last year?


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7855929 -

You're damned right I meant it mockingly.

There's no way they found squirrels fitted with spy gear.

It's much safer, more cost-effective, and easier to just throw a mic somewhere on somebody's person and have them walk around. Or have them stick it into a tree, if parks are what you want to spy on.


Honestly think to yourself what possible reason anybody would have to gather intel randomly and wantonly via squirrels. You're NOT going to get anything useful. It's too wide a net. It's too expensive.

We tried it with a cat in the 60s? O..k..? Back in the 60s the CIA was spending money left and right on hairbrained ideas with no basis in reality and absolutely no practical value.. acoustic kitty is just one of the funnier ones to remember, because 20 million bucks was immediately crushed under a taxi.


Iran did not capture squirrels spying on them. That's the dumbest shit I have ever heard in my life. No.. seriously. Ever.

zorbman said:
Didn't Bush pardon a turkey last year?



....

Don't intentionally be stupid.

It's become a tradition for the US President, every thanksgiving, to give one turkey a full presidential pardon. Harry Truman started it in 1947.

Yes, GW pardoned a turkey last year.

And the year before that.
And the year before that.
In fact, he's pardoned a turkey every year he's been in office.

So has every single president since 1947.


This isn't Caligula appointing his horse a consul. This is not a show of power and/or insanity. This is a silly tradition and nothing more.

It's certainly not on par with declaring that secret CIA squirrels have been spying on you, either.


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #7855950 -

Sense of humor optional.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7855988 -



Iran is full of nutjobs

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #7856066 -

I think my guy can take him:



--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7856438 -

zorbman said:
I think my guy can take him:





so cute/awesome!


--------------------
https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7858702 -

zappaisgod said:
Disco Cat said:
Regardless, it's a grossly incompetent move, stupid to the max.

Iran claims they used file footage, which I assume is old footage. Without a match up of audio and video we have zero evidence that this picture correlates to the claimed event.
They might as well have released footage of an old man feeding ducks at a pond.



To you, I'm sure it would have made no difference. To rational thinking human beings I expect a different reception. Say, Rosie, can you tell us again how fire can't melt steel.


The illogic therein (something we get used to with your drivel) is that the video footage didn't do what it was supposed to do, which is back up their claim. Showing separate audio and video of the important factor, when we know it would be filmed if it happened, is akin to a person holding up a book with the word "answers" on it, claiming they have the answers, but not letting anyone look inside the book. To say that this is enough for the majority of people is a deep insult to them.

So it looks like we add "rational" to the list of words you've used without knowing the definition of.
Again, I'm not arguing Iran's side, but merely pointing out the shortcoming of the tape released via rational (as per the dictionary definition) thought, as opposed to the duds that happen in the undesirable thing you must call your brain.
Now climb back aboard the short bus and take your medication like a good little retardo (You are a good one, arent' you?) and I'm sure the nurse will be happy to tell you more fairy tales of Iranian nukes, and of oil being inconsequential to Russia's power.

Next time just don't assume the majority of people as being as unintelligent as you clearly are, and you (yes, even you) should do ok, kemosabe.


Ad hominems are fun, eh zapwannabe? How awful for you, being someone who's got nothing else to rely on, that you're about as good at them at them as you are at not being a mental putz. Zappa would write you off as a loser, in any case, so you should stop pretending.

Edited by Disco Cat (01/10/08 11:19 AM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7858884 -

Disco Cat said:
zappaisgod said:
Disco Cat said:
Regardless, it's a grossly incompetent move, stupid to the max.

Iran claims they used file footage, which I assume is old footage. Without a match up of audio and video we have zero evidence that this picture correlates to the claimed event.
They might as well have released footage of an old man feeding ducks at a pond.



To you, I'm sure it would have made no difference. To rational thinking human beings I expect a different reception. Say, Rosie, can you tell us again how fire can't melt steel.


The illogic therein (something we get used to with your drivel) is that the video footage didn't do what it was supposed to do, which is back up their claim. Showing separate audio and video of the important factor, when we know it would be filmed if it happened, is akin to a person holding up a book with the word "answers" on it, claiming they have the answers, but not letting anyone look inside the book. To say that this is enough for the majority of people is a deep insult to them.


There is not one thing that would satisfy you. The video was shot from on deck and the message was received in the radio room. Are you daft? If they were both actually on the same tape it would be suspect. You must think the world is a movie set. Not surprising given your easily led nature.
Quote:
So it looks like we add "rational" to the list of words you've used without knowing the definition of.
Again, I'm not arguing Iran's side,


Um, yes, you are. Since that is the Iranian side, you are obviously doing exactly that.
Quote:
but merely pointing out the shortcoming of the tape released via rational (as per the dictionary definition) thought, as opposed to the duds that happen in the undesirable thing you must call your brain.


Rational people are capable of making judgments without 100% stone cold evidence, which is an impossibility (that's the rational part, in case you didn't know). That's why criminal proceedings are held to a "beyond reasonable doubt" standard and not "absolute certainty" standard. "Absolute certainty" is a fantasy, as any rational person knows.
Quote:
Now climb back aboard the short bus and take your medication like a good little retardo (You are a good one, arent' you?) and I'm sure the nurse will be happy to tell you more fairy tales of Iranian nukes, and of oil being inconsequential to Russia's power.

Next time just don't assume the majority of people as being as unintelligent as you clearly are, and you (yes, even you) should do ok, kemosabe.


Ad hominems are fun, eh zapwannabe? How awful for you that you're about as good at them at them as you are at not being a mental putz. Zappa would write you off, in any case, so you should stop pretending.


I am smarter than you. By a lot.


--------------------

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #7858886 -

Quote:
You're damned right I meant it mockingly.
There's no way they found squirrels fitted with spy gear.
It's much safer, more cost-effective, and easier to just throw a mic somewhere on somebody's person and have them walk around. Or have them stick it into a tree, if parks are what you want to spy on.


Don't be intentionally arrogant. Still not claiming the story's validity here, but it should be obvious that audio equippment is neither 60's priced or sized these days. Fitting 14 squirrels with mics won't even cost $50 G, and releasing said squirrels over a wall into a gov't building's courtyard to inhabit its trees could be of benefit. It takes playing dumb not to be able to imagine a scenario where such a device has benefit, and where sticking mics in trees, or having your people walk around with them, is inapplicable.

Quote:
Honestly think to yourself what possible reason anybody would have to gather intel randomly and wantonly via squirrels. You're NOT going to get anything useful. It's too wide a net. It's too expensive.
We tried it with a cat in the 60s? O..k..? Back in the 60s the CIA was spending money left and right on hairbrained ideas with no basis in reality and absolutely no practical value.. acoustic kitty is just one
of the funnier ones to remember, because 20 million bucks was immediately crushed under a taxi.


Yeah, I get it, you thought by being emphatic you'd sound more authorative, yet while simultaneously having no basis of knowledge for what it might cost and failing to imaginge a scenario where your alternate methods were inapplicable.
Also, the acoustic kitty isn't a CIA example, and nothing in Iran's claim mentioned anything about CIA squirrels.

For the whatevereth time, not assuming anything about the squirrel report, but your argument isn't an argument for the above stated reasons of cost and scenario application.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7858980 -

zappaisgod said:
Quote:
So it looks like we add "rational" to the list of words you've used without knowing the definition of.
Again, I'm not arguing Iran's side,


Um, yes, you are. Since that is the Iranian side, you are obviously doing exactly that.



No, you're just used to being a wretch who views everything as us vs them, good vs evil, win vs lose, and so you expect other people would be of similarly low quality and intelligence, making repeated fools of themselves as you do yourself.
I don't believe the Iranian side. But it takes someone stupid to think that the media release was a smoking gun for the US' claim. Clearly it was enough for you. Again, your assumption that others are going to be as poor quality human beings as you are blinds your judgement, as it did into thinking that I was arguing for Iran.


Quote:
Rational people are capable of making judgments without 100% stone cold evidence, which is an impossibility (that's the rational part, in case you didn't know). That's why criminal proceedings are held to a "beyond reasonable doubt" standard and not "absolute certainty" standard. "Absolute certainty" is a fantasy, as any rational person knows.


Correction, rational people are capable of making sound judegemts without %100 evidence, you are not.

Quote:
@ zapwannabe:
Now climb back aboard the short bus and take your medication like a good little retardo (You are a good one, arent' you?) and I'm sure the nurse will be happy to tell you more fairy tales of Iranian nukes, and of oil being inconsequential to Russia's power.

Next time just don't assume the majority of people as being as unintelligent as you clearly are, and you (yes, even you) should do ok, kemosabe.


Ad hominems are fun, eh zapwannabe? How awful for you that you're about as good at them at them as you are at not being a mental putz. Zappa would write you off, in any case, so you should stop pretending.


QFT

Quote:
I am smarter than you. By a lot.


Yeah, el oh el etc. Let's be serious here. You simply can't afford to play a game of wits. It's a good thing people like you will never be anything more than armchair delinquents.

It's clear that you enjoy pretending you're delivering lines akin to Frank Zappa's own, but you're a miserable imitator, and FZ didn't pathetically and deperately reach for opportunity to show off skills he didn't have, as you do. The man would spit on you for being the loser you are.

If you can't gauge that holding a book labeled "answer" isn't the same thing as seeing the answer for yourself, then you can't gauge intelligence either. You've just shown that. Again. Put down the keyboard, you're done. Have a nap.

Edited by Disco Cat (01/10/08 12:02 PM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7858992 -

:popcorn:


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7859075 -

Showing separate audio and video of the important factor, when we know it would be filmed if it happened

You never fail to amaze me, DC. Just when I thought you couldn't come up with anything more absurd than the last thing you said, you manage to say something more absurd:

Quote:
There is not one thing that would satisfy you. The video was shot from on deck and the message was received in the radio room. Are you daft? If they were both actually on the same tape it would be suspect.



--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7859197 -

Ah, the brain-fried retired guy rears his head in another desperate grab at revenge for having been shown to be incapable of putting two and two together in several previous debates.
It'd be more impactful if you could work from your own thoughts, but I understand that's rarely a viable prospect of yours. Now if you go back to the video, whether it's in the bridge or the radio room we have footage of the person on the radio calling for the boats to identify themeslves. Obviously there is going to be footage of the moment when the transmission came through.
Yes, yet again you were eager to jump up in desperation at the thought of delivering a jab without first turning on your brain. That's a terribly bad habit of yours.


So anyway, here's Iran's video release of the incident:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ce8_1199961781

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7859202 -

Wow, and you talk about ad hominems. :tongue:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7859227 -

Wow, you try to play off the ineptitude of your previous assertion which I just put on display. Maybe if you don't speak up with substanceless banter I can address whatever info you might present instead of reminding your how faulty your approach and motive is.

You've heard the expression "if you play with fire you might get burnt," well, you've habitually liked to do hit and run igniting (due to bitter revenge purposes,I assume), and then cry foul because it comes back on you. Why don't you grow up and/or put the pot down, because you would do well to be able to accept when you were wrong and not carry around a desire for retribution that clouds your senses.

Edited by Disco Cat (01/10/08 12:44 PM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7859278 -

Direct answer please:

In light of Zap's pointing out that the video and the audio MUST come from two different sources because they were recorded in two different locations on the ship, do you still consider the provided tapes bogus because the two information streams (audio and video) are on separate tapes?

Do you agree that if they somehow WERE provided on a single media, then THAT would make it suspect and not the other way around?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7859291 -

I never considered the tape bogus, I said it was stupid not to release the only thing that mattered, which was a combination of the audio and video - the possibility of which I addressed directly:

Disco Cat said:
Now if you go back to the video, whether it's in the bridge or the radio room we have footage of the person on the radio calling for the boats to identify themeslves. Obviously there is going to be footage of the moment when the transmission came through.



Edited by Disco Cat (01/10/08 12:53 PM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7859300 -

I don't understand what you're saying.

Are you saying that someone recording in the radio room and someone recording up on the deck of the ship should both end up with the same recording?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: BrAiN]
    #7859309 -

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4115702&page=1

In this ABC News report, a Navy Admiral isn't even sure where the voice came from.

The comments section on it is pretty funny.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7859315 -

There's no way to know for sure where the voice came from, but I don't think it's a coincidence that it just happened to come when the speedboats were darting around and dropping boxes in the path of the ship.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7859331 -

Diploid said:
I don't understand what you're saying.

Are you saying that someone recording in the radio room and someone recording up on the deck of the ship should both end up with the same recording?


There isn't someone standing in those locations with a video camera. There are automated cameras constantly recording everything in many areas on the ship. We know there is a camera recording where the radio communication between the US and Iranian boats is taking place, we see it for ourselves. Therefore, if this transmission really came through, there will be a video recording of it as it comes, while it is received. We will see the moments before, when the guy on the radio sends a request for them to identify themselves (which is shown on one of the videos), and we will see the moments when the audio is received. The camera cuts away before we see the moments when the transmission is received, and instead the audio is presented as a seperate file. Not the most logical way to present things. In fact, it's very sketchy.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7859340 -

There isn't someone standing in those locations with a video camera. There are automated cameras constantly recording everything in many areas on the ship.

Nope. Shaky hand held video buddy. You haven't been looking at the available data carefully.

No surprise there. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Diploid]
    #7859385 -

Incredible. I'm willing to answer your petition and explain exactly why, in all detail, it would make sense to have an audio correlating to video release, and you omit recognition of everything except the irrelevent bit you can take issue with to attempt another jab. You are a genuinely dumb person. There is constant, unceasing, video surveillance in all necessary areas of the ship.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7859407 -

These ships are not crawling with cameras like you think. Constant serveilance is counter-morale. Imagine working in a place where you're constantly being filmed.

While I don't doubt there are SOME automatic cameras in sensitive parts of these these ships, I doubt they are as pervasive as you think, especially since the available video was clearly shot by hand.

But I've never been in the military. Maybe there is someone here who has and can give us the facts.

Or maybe you can come up with something to back up your claim that these ships are crawling with automatic cameras?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7859978 -

Disco Cat said:
Quote:
Quote:
@ zapwannabe:
Now climb back aboard the short bus and take your medication like a good little retardo (You are a good one, arent' you?) and I'm sure the nurse will be happy to tell you more fairy tales of Iranian nukes, and of oil being inconsequential to Russia's power.

Next time just don't assume the majority of people as being as unintelligent as you clearly are, and you (yes, even you) should do ok, kemosabe.


Ad hominems are fun, eh zapwannabe? How awful for you that you're about as good at them at them as you are at not being a mental putz. Zappa would write you off, in any case, so you should stop pretending.


QFT


You just quoted yourself with a QFT?:whatever:  You are really one of the more special posters.
Quote:
Quote:
I am smarter than you.  By a lot.


Yeah, el oh el etc. Let's be serious here. You simply can't afford to play a game of wits. It's a good thing people like you will never be anything more than armchair delinquents.

It's clear that you enjoy pretending you're delivering lines akin to Frank Zappa's own, but you're a miserable imitator, and FZ didn't pathetically and deperately reach for opportunity to show off skills he didn't have, as you do. The man would spit on you for being the loser you are.

If you can't gauge that holding a book labeled "answer" isn't the same thing as seeing the answer for yourself, then you can't gauge intelligence either. You've just shown that. Again. Put down the keyboard, you're done. Have a nap.


FZ played brilliant guitar and made great music and skewered a lot of morons.  Especially disco morons.


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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7860057 -

Take the personalisms down several notches, folks. I've issued a warning to one poster in this thread already. I'd hate to have to whip out the ban stick.



Phred


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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7860077 -

Disco Cat said:
Incredible. I'm willing to answer your petition and explain exactly why, in all detail, it would make sense to have an audio correlating to video release, and you omit recognition of everything except the irrelevent bit you can take issue with to attempt another jab. You are a genuinely dumb person. There is constant, unceasing, video surveillance in all necessary areas of the ship.


You know this because.......? And there is constant surveillance 3600outside the ship? And they are all on one tape keyed with the radio room? And, I suppose, the entire intercom system? All on one tape? And you are smarter than me? And you are smarter than my dog? And you are smarter than my fish?

I must say Diploid, I can't believe you have taken this amount of abuse.


--------------------

Edited by zappaisgod (01/10/08 03:12 PM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7860134 -

I'm smarter than your fish

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: johnm214]
    #7864254 -

This story continues to develop:

Iranian Boats May Not Have Made Radio Threat, Pentagon Says

"The Pentagon said yesterday that the apparent radio threat to bomb U.S. warships in the Persian Gulf last weekend may not have come from the five Iranian Revolutionary Guard speedboats that approached them -- and may not even have been intended against U.S. targets.

The communication Sunday was made on radio channel 16, a common marine frequency used by ships and others in the region. "It could have been a threat aimed at some other nation or a myriad of other things," said Rear Adm. Frank Thorp IV, a spokesman for the Navy."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/10/AR2008011000692_2.html?sid=ST2008011001831


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7864487 -

oh SNAP! :smilingpuppy:

Quote:
The U.S. presence in the Gulf's international waters is a sensitive issue in Iran because the USS Vincennes, another Aegis cruiser, shot down an Iranian passenger plane in 1988, killing all 290 people on board. The United States at first contended that it was a warplane and then said that it was outside the civilian air corridor and did not respond to radio calls. Both were untrue, and the radio calls were made on military frequencies to which the airliner did not have access. A subsequent investigation showed that the U.S. ship was off course


I think this is the hammer in the coffen regarding weither to trust reports in the paper regarding matters like this as whole truths, you gotta take them with a grain of salt, we weren't there, and only the people who were there know exactly what happened.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.

Edited by makaveli8x8 (01/11/08 11:22 AM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #7864761 -

It could also have been a coded transmission from Venusians to Gate of Heaven members to get ready to board the mothership.


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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #7866218 -

It will be interesting to see if the original version of events continues to unravel over time. Revelations like these are why I cautioned people earlier to reserve judgment until all the facts are in evidence.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7866329 -

we should have blown them out of the water no matter who was on the FUCKING radio.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7866427 -

Quote:
we should have blown them out of the water no matter who was on the FUCKING radio.


Too much coffee?


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7866454 -

I'm fucking tired.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7866465 -

did u hear this?



US reveals new Iran 'incidents'


Iranian speedboats approached US warships in two previously undisclosed incidents in the Strait of Hormuz in December, a US Navy official has said.

The USS Whidbey Island fired warning shots during one of the encounters




http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7184400.stm


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7866831 -

Sounds like Iran is testing assymetrical tactics on US warships, no other explanation for a sudden escalation in hostilities near the strait of hormuz, Iran lately has escalating its military operations after the NIE report, they've also layed low on supplying Sadr and the Badr brigades with weaponry. No doubt they lay low for a reason.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #7867092 -

What do you think the reason is? Could Iran possibly want the violence to be reduced so that the Americans will leave and make it easier for Iran to consolidate gains in south? Isn't that fairly risky considering too much improvement especially in the peace process could lead to a strengthened US position in Iraq? Or maybe they are scared to provoke the US anymore than they already have? I would think it would be in their best interest to bleed the Americans every month like they did before the surge. Maybe since they aren't they realized the Americans position has already deteriorated so much that it is best just to allow them to leave and get on with their own hedgemony in the region? Basically I am asking what possible good would come for Iran to make them stop supplying their militias in Iraq with as many weapons as they had before?

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7868087 -

> we should have blown them out of the water no matter who was on the FUCKING radio.

Bad tactics. Right now Iran still doesn't know how effective the US Navy's defense is at stopping fast boat attacks. They also still don't know how close they can get before being attacked. It is a lot harder to plan an offense against an unknown defense.

On the opposite side, the US Navy is playing this well. They know that Iran is looking at using fast boats and can plan defenses accordingly. They have released the entire tape to the public putting Iran on the defensive for it's (claimed) actions.

What they need to do is take a page from the DEA playback, foul the props, and arrest a bunch of Iranian's for getting too close.

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Seuss]
    #7868766 -

This is not the first time.

Did the U.S win the confrontation

No

What did we do

Nothing which mens they one.

For years the president of Iran has been doing this.
and we keep hearing the same thing. If you do this one more time you're going to get it. If you take one more step to a nuclear weapon we are going to blow you up. Just one more step. You know that voice its the voice of a coward. That says's if you say one more word to my wife I'm going to blast him. One more word.


--------------------
"absolute power corrupts absolutely".
Lord Acton,

Edited by bodynotdead (01/12/08 08:14 PM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7871974 -

zappaisgod said:
You know this because.......? And there is constant surveillance 3600outside the ship? And they are all on one tape keyed with the radio room? And, I suppose, the entire intercom system? All on one tape? And you are smarter than me? And you are smarter than my dog? And you are smarter than my fish?



Some navy ships have a camera on every single workstation aboard. Yes, there is constant 360 exterior video surveillance and recording (One of the systems the Navy uses is called OmniAlert360). As for it being linked to the intercom system, that's where you start receding into your personal ass-backward world.


Quote:
The video was shot from on deck and the message was received in the radio room.


I think this is where your brain puttered out on you. There is a video shot from the bridge, which is where the radio transmissions are sent and received from. I said they should release a video as the transmission is being received (which, judging by the quality and background bridge noises, was sourced from video in the first place). So in your specially-wired head you somehow created the idea that an all in one recording of the outside vid and the transmission was being talked about? If you can muster enough competence to take care of fish, then I'm impressed.

Edited by Disco Cat (01/13/08 03:50 AM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7876646 -

zorbman said:
It will be interesting to see if the original version of events continues to unravel over time. Revelations like these are why I cautioned people earlier to reserve judgment until all the facts are in evidence.


Interestingly, in the transmission, after the "I'm coming to you" part and seconds before the "you will explode" part, the US ship states "you have not identified yourself" over the radio. So Iran's footage of their exchange can only take place after the supposed threat occured, yet in Iran's footage there is an objective and calm exchange of information, with the issue of the radio threat not being raised or hinted at.

There's been no footage or recording or even a claim from the US that the Iranian boats were questioned about the threat in their radio communication, and no radio response to the boats from the US has been implied by either party. I assume that after receiving a threat of attack you wouldn't ignore it and continue to exchange ship identification before just moving on. I also assume that regardless of where the transmission was coming from it's likely that someone else in the area might have heard it. Also, the Iranian boats should have also heard the threatening transmission, even if it didn't come from them.

Just some thoughts.

Edited by Disco Cat (01/14/08 03:10 AM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7877596 -

This just in..

Gulf prankster possible message source

1 hour, 32 minutes ago

CAIRO, Egypt - A threatening radio message at the end of a video showing Iranian patrol boats swarming near U.S. warships in the Persian Gulf may have come from a prankster rather than from the Iranian vessels, the Navy Times newspaper has reported.

A video and audio of the Jan. 6 incident in the Strait of Hormuz featured a man in accented English saying "I am coming to you. ... You will explode after ... minutes."

Cmdr. Lydia Robertson, spokeswoman for the Fifth Fleet in Bahrain, said the Navy was still trying to determine the source of the transmission but believed it was related to the Iranian actions.

"The Iranian boats were coming close to the ships, making aggressive maneuvers and objects were being dropped into the water," she told The Associated Press.

However, the Navy Times, a weekly newspaper published by the Gannett company, quoted several veteran sailors as speculating the transmission could have come from a heckler widely known among sailors in the region by the ethnically insulting term "the Filipino Monkey."

The newspaper, which serves the Navy community, said U.S. sailors in the Persian Gulf have heard the prankster — possibly more than one person — transmitting "insults and jabbering vile epithets" on unencrypted frequencies.

"Navy women — a helicopter pilot hailing a tanker, for example — who are overheard on the radio are said to suffer particularly degrading treatment," the newspaper said Sunday. "Several Navy ship drivers interviewed by Navy Times are raising the possibility that the Monkey, or an imitator, was indeed featured in that video."

U.S. Navy officials at Fifth Fleet headquarters in Bahrain could not immediately be reached for comment. However, Navy officials have said they were unsure where the transmission came from.

The threat, however, ratcheted up tensions in the incident, which began when Iranian patrol boats swarmed around three U.S. Navy vessels near Iranian waters in the Strait of Hormuz.

Iran has denied that its boats threatened the U.S. vessels and accused Washington of fabricating video and audio it released. Iran's government has released its own video, which appeared to be shot from a small boat bobbing at least yards from the American warships.

The Navy Times quoted Rick Hoffman, a retired captain, as saying a renegade talker repeatedly harassed ships in the Gulf in the late 1980s.

"For 25 years there's been this mythical guy out there who, hour after hour, shouts obscenities and threats," he said. "He could be tied up pierside somewhere or he could be on the bridge of a merchant ship," Hoffman said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080114/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_us_navy_5

If he is the source of the audio I bet he's laughing his ass off right now.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7877763 -

I called it:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7844509#Post7844509

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: johnm214]
    #7877784 -

"For 25 years there's been this mythical guy out there who, hour after hour, shouts obscenities and threats"


Can anyone vouch for zap's whereabouts? :grin:


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7878481 -

I'm in your apartment wearing your girlfriend out.

Not for nothing but this doesn't exactly say anything:

Quote:
However, the Navy Times, a weekly newspaper published by the Gannett company, quoted several veteran sailors as speculating the transmission could have come from a heckler widely known among sailors in the region by the ethnically insulting term "the Filipino Monkey."


Iranian speedboats buzzed navy vessels in provocation. It happened. Get over it.

Somehow, mystically and by completely separate channels, some whack job, accidentally and with no coordination, at the same time sent them a radio directed bomb threat. Just who's being a gullible tool here?


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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7878486 -

I'm in your apartment wearing your girlfriends outfits

Go Zap!:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (01/14/08 02:02 PM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Icelander]
    #7878501 -

Some of them are a little baggy, dude. Your girlfriend is fat fat fat.


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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: Icelander]
    #7878541 -

Icelander said:
I'm in your apartment wearing your girlfriends outfits

Go Zap!:thumbup:


:rofl2:


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7878584 -

Quote:
Somehow, mystically and by completely separate channels, some whack job, accidentally and with no coordination, at the same time sent them a radio directed bomb threat.


Who said anything about "accidently" or "coordination"? Can you not comprehend how some local idiot infamous for monitoring ship-to-ship radio traffic and then jumping in with insults and epithets may be the culprit for the radio transmission? Is this guy your long-lost brother or something?

Just who's being a gullible tool here?

Yourself.

You have gotten so far out in front of this developing story it will be funny if your limb gets sawed off completely and you go SPLAT! :grin:


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7878610 -

zorbman said:
You have gotten so far out in front of this developing story it will be funny if your limb gets sawed off completely and you go SPLAT! :grin:


It never gets old, does it? :thumbup: And it's happened at least once in this thread already  :congrats:

Edited by Disco Cat (01/14/08 02:48 PM)

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7878671 -

zorbman said:
Just who's being a gullible tool here?




You are if you think this means anything at all:

Quote:
However, the Navy Times, a weekly newspaper published by the Gannett company, quoted several veteran sailors as speculating the transmission could have come from a heckler widely known among sailors in the region by the ethnically insulting term "the Filipino Monkey."


You will swallow anything as fact as long as it contradicts an "official" announcement. Knee jerk means YOU.


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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7878786 -

You will swallow anything as fact as long as it contradicts an "official" announcement.

You are so silly.

I have not come down on one side or the other. You jumped the gun and made up your mind before all the facts were in. If you want unquestioning acceptance of official accounts I suggest you move to China.

President Bush could eat a live baby on tv and the next day you'd be looking for filet de' enfant in the grocery store.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Iranian Navy threatens U.S. ships [Re: zorbman]
    #7878875 -

yeah really,

zap I think everyone knows this story is very unclear. All we know is that some jackasses were driving around US ships in dinky boats and a threatening message was recieved. Yes, I'd be surprised if the two weren't related, but its not impossible.

Either way Iran has a history of these histrionics, and it just may bite them in the ass one day.

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