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OfflineRaedon
enthusiast

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 271
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use.
    #1442292 - 04/09/03 10:54 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Due to all the ABCnews etc coverage on the EPA listing the amount of Asbestos as a big problem in Vermiculite (which is should be! hell.) http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/verm.html it is being phased out of the home gardening departments.  This growing season I noticed that the Home Depot that usually has bulk bags of the stuff isn't carrying it at all, nor is Lowes.  Only some of the small $2.97 bags.  I can still get 4 Cu. Feet at feed stores but I'd rather look for a less cancer problematic substance

. I was wondering if there was another casing material as versatile and PH friendly out there as vermiculite? I've always had problems with Peat and PH..  :tongue:


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OfflinePooPs
What's thisfor???

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 4,510
Loc: Stirrin up the pile!
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: Raedon]
    #1442369 - 04/09/03 11:19 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Coco coir.

Peat moss.

Worm bedding


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Sniff, Sniff... What's that smell???... ohhhhh.!!
------------------


Pot Free for another : nevermind.. never made it..


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
Lord Of The Idiots!
 User Gallery Arcade Champion: BurgerTime, Space Invaders
Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 7,459
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: PooPs]
    #1442454 - 04/09/03 11:48 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

that was only one souce of vermiculite that had asbestos in it and caused a big panic.


at least thats what some guy at home depot told kramer


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Quote:

pftek said:Impossible to clean everything right now. Maybe in a week.





ROTHBURY

:pm:


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Offlinemycophat
member
Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 133
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: PooPs]
    #1442460 - 04/09/03 11:50 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

What are you "Sheep"? As far as I have read there is NO Asbestos in vermiculite it was a portion of "tainted" vermiculite found at a single site and the media (once again) made a mountain out of a mole hill. NEVER believe what you hear from the media as it is MOSTLY propaganda. Go to mycotopia.net's forum and do a search for Asbestos and or vermiculite and you will find the info that I am referring to. And as always I COULD be wrong but like I said the info I have found states that there is NO Asbestos in Vermiculite (just Mica)


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OfflineSpasey
newbie

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 27
Loc: MIlky Way
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: mycophat]
    #1442624 - 04/09/03 12:48 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Every bag of vermeculite i Have ever bought had a sticker warning of small amounts of asbestos may be present, who knows, but it sure does make a lot of dust. Perlite works well but adjust the moisture as I dont think it can hold quite as much water as the verm.


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 7,459
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: Spasey]
    #1442671 - 04/09/03 01:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

the vermiculite kramer uses says all natural on the bag


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Quote:

pftek said:Impossible to clean everything right now. Maybe in a week.





ROTHBURY

:pm:


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OfflineRaedon
enthusiast

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 271
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: mycophat]
    #1442686 - 04/09/03 01:07 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

We all know the media is always on a ghost hunt :smile:, but the fact is if aspestos is present garden Suppliers will run from selling Vermerculite faster then a hooker running from Salt Lake City.

    Not like I care I always used a mask when working with it anyway (alergies).  I was really just asking for other good casing layer options as there is a good chance I won't be able to get Vermiculite next year locally.. Thanks Poop. 


Edited by Raedon (04/09/03 01:08 PM)


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Invisibletripndicular
My Minds Eye IsRhizomorphic

Registered: 08/25/02
Posts: 2,791
Loc: Bowels of HELL
Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: Raedon]
    #1442699 - 04/09/03 01:12 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Verm contaminated by asbestos were the key words . Verm does not contain asbestos unless poorly manufactured (mined) . This is just a paranoid myth !
Good GOD , 99% of things in life are only harmfull in QUANTITIES and prolonged exposure to them . Wear a mask when handling !


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Any information I give is not intended to aide you in the production of potentialy illegal substances !None of my exp comes from growing illegal varities , so take it as you will .
So with that said here is our mission statement .

Then the priest fell into a trance or swoon,& said unto the Queen of heaven ; Write unto us the ordeals; write unto us the rituals; write unto us the law !


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OfflinePooPs
What's thisfor???

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 4,510
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Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: tripndicular]
    #1443265 - 04/09/03 03:37 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I always rinse my vermiculite very well before using it .. Notice the fine yellow dust that wahses out....

it's a pain in the ass to do... but i feel better once it's done.

Just like masturbation!!! hahahahaha


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-----------
Sniff, Sniff... What's that smell???... ohhhhh.!!
------------------


Pot Free for another : nevermind.. never made it..


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OfflineLightBright
conspiring
Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 57
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: PooPs]
    #1443276 - 04/09/03 03:41 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Personally, I prefer flame retardant shrooms  :grin:


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"This hooch, it burns my soul."


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OfflineRaadt
nicht

Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 2,104
Loc: azurescending
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: Spasey]
    #1443285 - 04/09/03 03:43 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

perlite doesn't really hold moisture at all.

It just adds surface area for evaporation.


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Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: Raadt]
    #1443340 - 04/09/03 04:00 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I had posted something on this about a year ago...some study that was done at the Univ. of Wa. ...cant remember if it was here or at A.D.M.

P#1


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OfflinePooPs
What's thisfor???

Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 4,510
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Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #1443361 - 04/09/03 04:06 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

And what was it that you posted..... mr 1/2 story!!!


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-----------
Sniff, Sniff... What's that smell???... ohhhhh.!!
------------------


Pot Free for another : nevermind.. never made it..


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Offlinemesq
Psychonaut
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Registered: 02/24/02
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Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: PooPs]
    #1443556 - 04/09/03 05:21 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Just don't don't deliberately breathe in vermiculite dust and you should be fine. Perlite is a much bigger health risk without being contaminated, dust masks are a must for using dry perlite.


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InvisibleRoadkillM
Retired Shroomery Mod
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Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: Raedon]
    #1443583 - 04/09/03 05:30 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

First off lets look at some facts.

More than 70 percent of the vermiculite ore mined in the world came from the Libby mine in Montana which has been closed since 1990. This particular mine was unusual because the area also included a natural deposit of tremolite asbestos. As a result, much of the vermiculite from the Libby mine was contaminated with tremolite asbestos.

When other companies in the vermiculite industry became aware of the asbestos problems at Libby, they became very concerned and began testing for possible asbestos contamination in their operations. And today, any new source of vermiculite is tested for asbestos. These testing reports are scrutinized to make sure the vermiculite is safe, and MSDS sheets are maintained to comply with all OSHA and Community-Right-to-Know laws.


What is asbestos?

There are six minerals known as asbestos. These minerals are found in nature in soil and rocks in some areas of the United States. These minerals are amosite, chrysotile, crocidolite, and, more fibrous minerals, tremolite, actinolite, and anthophyllite. Asbestos fibers are found in different sizes and shapes. (The type of asbestos found in the vermiculite ore from the mine at Libby, Montana is tremolite/actinolite.)


Asbestos fibers are microscopic. These tiny fibers can be present in the dust in an area where asbestos insulation is disturbed. If you observed a lot of dust when removing/disturbing asbestos it is possible that you inhaled some asbestos fibers. Usually, however, it takes more exposure than a few trips to the attic to develop the health problems associated with exposure to asbestos.
Most health problems associated with exposure to asbestos result from a 10 year + exposure to asbestos fibers in the air.


A person must generally be exposed to asbestos for a long period of time (10 or more years) before health effects occur.


What illnesses are associated with asbestos exposure?

a) Asbestosis - a serious, progressive, long-term disease of the lungs. It is not cancer. It is caused by inhaling asbestos fibers tat irritate lung tissues and cause the tissues to scar. The scarring makes it hard for oxygen to get into the blood. Symptoms of asbestosis include shortness of breath and a dry, crackling sound in the lungs while inhaling. The chance of developing asbestosis is very small for those who do not work with asbestos. Neighborhood or family exposure rarely causes the disease. There is no effective treatment for asbestosis, and the disease can cause disability and death.

b) Lung Cancer - causes the largest number of deaths related to asbestos exposure. People who work in the mining, milling, manufacturing, and use of asbestos and its products are more likely to develop lung cancer than the general population. The most common symptoms of lung cancer are coughing and a change in breathing. Other symptoms include shortness of breath, persistent chest pains, hoarseness, and anemia. People who have been exposed to asbestos and also are exposed to some other cancer-causing product, such as cigarette smoke, have a greater risk of developing lung cancer than people who have only been exposed to asbestos.

c) Mesothelioma - a form of cancer that is found in the thin lining (membrane) of the lung, chest, abdomen, and heart. About 200 cases are diagnosed each year in the United States, and almost all cases are linked with exposure to asbestos. About 2 percent of all miners and textile workers who work with asbestos and 10 percent of all workers who were involved in the manufacture of gas masks that contained asbestos develop mesothelioma. This disease may not show up until several years after asbestos exposure. This is why great efforts are being made to prevent school children from being exposed.


For some more good reading check out this page.
http://www.vermiculite.net/



--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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Offlinecleaner
Stranger

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 508
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: PooPs]
    #1443626 - 04/09/03 05:44 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I always rinse my vermiculite very well before using it .. Notice the fine yellow dust that wahses out....





Which mushrooms later feed on.

That's just fucking great. I knew there has to be somethign wrong here.

All those crapy companies looking for ways to manufacture as cheap as possible and save up some extra profit.

There is no decency left in this world  :mad:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: cleaner]
    #1443913 - 04/09/03 07:26 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

b) Lung Cancer - causes the largest number of deaths related to asbestos exposure. People who work in the mining, milling, manufacturing, and use of asbestos...snip.... are exposed to some other cancer-causing product, such as cigarette smoke, have a greater risk of developing lung cancer than people who have only been exposed to asbestos




There was a study done in the mid '60's on coffee/caffene being a contributor to heart disease, for about 30 years every one was paranoid about drinking it and started on Decaf, the study was abberated, the test subjects were primarily comprised of coffee drinkers that also were smokers. The control group, only contained a small percentage of smokers.....the study was examined in the a group of student that discovered it may be flawed and decided to reconduct the proscess and discovered very little link between the two.

Asbestos on the OTOH may very well be a carcenogen, my grandmother worked in an asbestos plant for about 25 years, she never smoked and she was diagnosed with lung cancer about 15 years ago, about 10 years after she retired from the job....

Studies like this are picked up by the news media picks up on things and they run wild with it...they start a panic about the smallest thin like "biological and chemical warfair"....

Prisoner#1


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OfflineBigJohnson
Whoa! You guysneed to lightenup!

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 716
Loc: The Yard
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Vermiculite and Asbestos? What else to use. [Re: PooPs]
    #1443931 - 04/09/03 07:32 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


it's a pain in the ass to do... but i feel better once it's done.

Just like masturbation!!! hahahahaha 




Masterbation a pain in the ass? Dude, what are you doing? Leave your ass alone when you yank it! My god man...

:cool:


--------------------
Should the US relegalize drugs?

http://www.lp.org/issues/relegalize.html


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