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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Kramer Cakes * 11
    #23510779 - 08/04/16 09:53 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Ok everyone throw out your agar plates and trash all your cultures because you're not going to need them anymore!

OK you might not want to throw away all the shit you have been working on if you have a bunch of cultures in your refrigerator, but if you don't and you do have a few half pint jars and a pressure cooker you might want to check this out.

This is not a huge revelation in mushroom growing, and those of you who are already growing mass tubs of bulk substrates might want to skip over this one. There are varying levels of cultivation expertise as with any thing else, those who consider themselves masters need read no further.

However, if you have just run through your first grow with the pf tek and  brf, and had any success at all, and if it left you like it left Kramer, wanting to grow just a little more; you might find this tek an easy way to introduce yourself to grain. Or if perhaps you are a total newb and have never grown before but have read and re-read that faq a few dozen times, this could be a good tek for a confident person to bypass the pf tek with.

The type of grain we will be using is millet.  Kramer likes white millet because it is cheaper, but red will work if that is all that you can get. The easiest place to score millet is at any hardware store that sells loose bird seed for folks that like to mix their own. This recipe calls for roughly 5lbs of millet, so you would want to pick at least that much up to start.

In a pinch you could use any wbs that is mostly millet, but Kramer likes using plain millet best.

So, Kramer has been perfecting this tek over the years and since he has never seen anyone else post a detailed tek on this one, he figured that he would drop a little bit of what he has been doing these past few years since the show was canceled.



This will take you strait to grains, where you want to be, especially if you are trying to grow bulk grows, that are covered in greater detail in many other threads.

Materials Needed:

1.  Pressure Cooker

2.  Wide mouth 1/2 pint jars

3.  Millet(or wbs)

4.  Vermiculite (fine grade is best)

5.  Spore syringe (or liquid culture)

6.  Micropore tape

7. Alcohol pads/ paper towels

8.  Oust or Lysol/ or still air box method can be used

9. A room you can clean up and keep a still air environment for a few  minutes

10. Large mixing bowl or tub and spoon


Optional items that can make your grow a lot easier.  Bucket with pouring lip, sink drain screen.



Step one:  Soak your grain, let it soak for 12-24 hours, pour hot water onto the grain and let it soak, this is where the bucket comes in handy, if not use your mixing bowl or tub.

After the grain has soaked for the duration, drain some of the water off, if your going to be fruiting these as cakes, you will want to leave all of the water with the grain, a good rule of thumb is three parts millet 2 parts water 1 part verm, if you start with this soaking the millet in the water and then adding the verm after the soak, you should be close the the moisture content your going to need to fruit these boys out as cakes. Kramer calls this the 3-2-1 blast off mix, no other ingredients are needed.

Note: if you're using this for spawn you can drain off all the water and then just toss in a little verm to dry up the mix as pictured .

Mix your verm and soaked grain and water together and make sure you have no water pooling in the bottom of the mixing tray, if you do get water pooling just add a little verm and keep mixing. The key to success with this method is the same as with brf, it starts with a well mixed substrate



There are two ways you can go about preparing your cakes, you can use a dry verm layer, just like the pf tek. or you can just fill your jars up and tape the hole with micropore tape after inoculation.

Kramer always just fills his jars all the way full, lightly packing the substrate and then after inoculation tapes the hole over.


Yes, the hole, Kramer likes using one hole in the middle of the lid, he says this is the best chance for success when growing cakes. This works with brf as well, make one hole in the middle of the lid and inoculate the middle of the cake.




Ok, back to making the cakes, when you mix in your say 3 quarts of millet with your 2 quarts of water and they have soaked you then mix in your 1 quart of verm, this should give you a slightly damp to maybe even a little soupy substrate mix, the key to success on this is to dry it up. make sure that after you have mixed everything completely you can then take your mixing spoon and scrape a clear spot in the bottom of the bowl or tub, if you have water pooling there then toss in a little verm and mix well until no water pools out of the sub, now you have perfect moisture content for optimum colonization.


Note: If you have only soaked your grain for a few hours or your grain was soaking at a very low temperature for less than 12 hours when you cook it the grain will finish soaking up all the water and your mix may be too dry, it is very important that you soak the grain for at least 12 hours. Also if your grain has soaked for 24 hours or less and it stinks really bad because it has begun fermenting, its ok, just get it in the cooker and it will be fine if you let the grain soak too long over the 24 hours and it is stinking really bad, you may want to toss it.



Time to load your jars and get them in the pc and bring it up to 15lbs, turn it down so that there is little to no steam escaping and you stay at 15lbs for at least 45 min, but no more than 90 min, turn off pc and allow to cool for 24 hours.

Next take out the oust and spray down the house jump in the shower and wash yourself even if it's not Saturday, then put on some fresh clean cloths and head out to your work area.

Inoculate your cakes with less than 1/4 cc of spore fluid per cake, if possible.  I know sometime you squirt out a little more than you wanted, but that's ok too, the less spore fluid you can use the better. Kramer likes to get 40 jars out of a vendor syringe even tho he used Jerry's cc when he ordered.

Immediately tape over your holes with your micropore tape and place jars somewhere warm to colonize, as long as you can keep your jars at 72F you should have no worries.

Your not all the done yet, if you want results like this your going to want to dunk and roll these cakes just like they were brf.




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KRAMER CAKES




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InvisiblePastywhyteM
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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: george castanza]
    #23510871 - 08/04/16 10:20 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

That's pretty cool, like V tek but with a rez effect. You ever keep these in the jar and top fruit em? Should note that even people working with live culture could use these, LC or LI will do the trick.

Nice writeup. I just happen to have a sack of white millet. I also got a few LCs in my fridge that I was gonna test out. If they come up clean I will give this a run soon.


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InvisibleCosmoKramer
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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23510927 - 08/04/16 10:41 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

:cheersyoufuck:
cool idea! Haven't really found a decent use for all the leftover half pint PF jars from years ago, but this should take care of that problem now without the hassle of making the dreaded PF mix. The results look nice and should work great for clone testing. Thanks for sharing!


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: CosmoKramer]
    #23511093 - 08/04/16 11:42 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Totally fucking cool that this was your 420th post brother! Thank you for spending it with me! :headbanger:

Yes. I had kind of gotten myself into a situation with a bunch of half pint jars, and really what the fuck are you going to do with the half-pint jars once you move on to bulk? So mother necessity  scores another win!

Btw you can maximize pressure cooker space with these bad boys. You could maybe get more sub in your cooker with bags, but it would be close.


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KRAMER CAKES




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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: george castanza]
    #23511150 - 08/05/16 12:02 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Jeepers those are some giant fruits!
Fuck it, im gunna have to give this a go!
You mean to say that ms consistantly grows that well, just because the sub is mostly millet?
I thought brf was richer in nutes than wbs


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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23511181 - 08/05/16 12:11 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Pretty damn neat. Good post.

I may give this a try soon.


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>> AMU Q&A thread <<



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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23511200 - 08/05/16 12:22 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Well, there are several factors at play that gives this tek favorable advantage when working from multi-spore.  For one thing it gets the rizo myc colonizing the outside of the cake, not that it wouldn't or couldn't find the outside of the cake anyway, but why not give the rizo the advantage when it comes to the food source right? Like I said it works just as well with a brf substrate, but these cakes are much easier to use for spawn.

Brf is richer, as would any processed flour be over a whole grain. If you noticed I flipped the amounts of grain to verm for this tek. I tried many different ratios, if you're fruiting as cakes the 3-2-1 works best ime.


--------------------
KRAMER CAKES




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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: george castanza]
    #23511220 - 08/05/16 12:32 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

I imagine the higher grain ratios make these far better to spawn than brf. Certainly couldn't pack that ratio with flour.


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InvisibleMunchauzen
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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: george castanza]
    #23511225 - 08/05/16 12:37 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup:


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OfflineMycologist217
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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: Munchauzen]
    #23511333 - 08/05/16 01:40 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Just for clarification, these are fruited in a SGFC?

I enjoyed this write up, a lot, george castanza! The local hardware store sells millet cheap, this will be a great way to use up my last 100mls of LC! Very cool!


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23511362 - 08/05/16 01:49 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Absolutely!

If I know the jars are going to be spawned then all the water gets drained off and then only a handful of verm gets mixed in.

In this scenario the verm serves two very important purposes. First, it regulates the moisture content ensuring every grain gets its fair share of the water that is available. Secondly and just as important IMO(I guessthis is really more than just one point), is that it gives the myc a chance to stretch out a little and have a friendly competition as to who wants to eat but does not leave the substrate like a rock or a piece of concrete or whatever, it leaves you with an easy to crumble substrate with thousands of inoculation  points when spawning to bulk. Idk how many of you have colonized millet all by itself, but that shit will turn into a rock on your ass and you will need a hammer to break it apart.

To answer your other question yes I tried to top fruit them out of the jar several times with several different strains, but I always pussed out and pulled them out of the jar due to side pinning. Now that I'm thinking about it the side pinning is probably due to the fact that natural sunlight is always the light source of choice and it always comes in from the side. I like to have them get hit by direct sunlight in the early am or late pm. Also worth noting is that the biggest problem I have encountered with this method was huge pinsets on cakes that would wind up aborting, most likely because they couldn't draw enough water to sustain themselves.

It is very similar to the rez effect tek. It's also similar to Hawks magic formula mix which is how I got started with seed cakes. I have literally tried damn near every tek(on the main page), as well as damn near every strain from every vendor. This particular method worked very well, so I had an inclination to stick with it.

I'm blown away that you would even consider using this tek with all the mad skills you possess man.
:datass:


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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: george castanza]
    #23511476 - 08/05/16 03:04 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Saved. This tek looks fun. :threadmonitor:


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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: The Phleg]
    #23511742 - 08/05/16 07:37 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

When I started, I started PF tek--just like many of us. I wanted to up my game, so first I tried spawning the cakes. It went okay, and bulk was appealing, so I went spores to grain. It worked… until it didn't work, and I got such bad contams that there was no coming back from it (at least, that's what it felt like).

So I started making the BRF Agar Substitute (BRFAS) and kept thinking I had clean cultures, and having those trich/mold out too.

It was because of all this failure that I came to a decision: it was either throw in the towel, or sack up and use agar. So I did. It's been the agar that has helped me have any degree of success since.

I kinda wish kramer cakes were around a year ago, they may have make the transition a bit easier on me. This could very well help keep newbs from throwing in the towel too :thumbup:


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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: dankington]
    #23512208 - 08/05/16 11:56 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

New ideas is what keeps this hobby fun and exciting! This tek will make some major waves in the near future as people start experimenting with kramer cakes. I think a lot of PF tek fails are mostly due to mixtures being slightly off, or at least that's what frustrated the hell out of me back then. Nailing down the moisture levels, Brf clumping, verm barrier caving in.. So many things I hated about PF cakes but when you finally get it right they put out good fruits. Now it's going to be a hell of a lot easier to do clone tests and run them side by side with Minimonos to compare performance on bulk subs.

@george that is strange about my 420 post.. I wasn't paying attention to it until you mentioned it. We'll burn one together brother! :bigblunt:


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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: CosmoKramer]
    #23512255 - 08/05/16 12:16 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

I have everything I need for this, so I think I might try this out.  Nifty tek.  No more room in my SGFC right now though, so I think it's time I bought another tub.  Been needing to increase my yields and between this tek and the coir monotub I'm about to start, I should be good for quite some time.


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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: Mushierage] * 1
    #23512535 - 08/05/16 01:45 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

I like how we have GC anc CK in the same thread, each with their respective avatars.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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InvisibleCosmoKramer
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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: Inocuole]
    #23512630 - 08/05/16 02:26 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
I like how we have GC anc CK in the same thread, each with their respective avatars.




Haha. Yeah actually George inspired this account name. I've been reading these forums since around late 2006-2007. Always been a fan of both..George on Seinfeld and Shroomery! :toast:


--------------------
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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: CosmoKramer]
    #23512641 - 08/05/16 02:30 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Ahh yeah that's probably around when I first peered in here.  Different place, then.


--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: Inocuole]
    #23512660 - 08/05/16 02:38 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

:rockon:


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Kramer Cakes [Re: Mycologist217]
    #23512835 - 08/05/16 03:27 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mycologist217 said:
Just for clarification, these are fruited in a SGFC?






The cake at the bottom of the thread was actually fruited in a pmp.

Here is a Kramer Cake fruiting in a sgfc.


--------------------
KRAMER CAKES




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