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TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being * 3
    #13937207 -

I have seen a trend recently toward users trolling posts in the Sexuality and Relationships forum, and in the Physical and Mental Well-Being forum.

Both of these forums commonly contain posts of a sensitive nature, some of which are sensitive to the point where the OP would prefer to post Anonymously-- so as not to have their account associated with the topic.

I think both of these forums provide great opportunity for mature discussion, asking for advice, and even having fun.

But I don't think that "trolling," should be an acceptable part of the fun in a forum where some people are looking for help or revealing intimate things about themselves.

Say we get a depressed member who starts a "Suicide," thread. Regardless of whether that is a cry for help and attention, or a seriously contemplated attempt, how could we possibly allow anyone to go into such a thread and harass the OP, without getting a permaban?

That should be considered a safety issue, along the lines of dispensing dosage advice. It could get people hurt or cause REAL trouble in the REAL world (if only for the OP.)

I joined this site because of cool info, cool discussion, and cool PEOPLE. If everyone here acted like they do in OTD, I never would have joined. That troll shit has its place, and can be funny there.

But we need to keep it where it belongs.

We also need heavier moderation in the forums I mentioned.

I put in a support ticket in a thread similar to what I described above, and it was over 24 hours before any kind of action was taken. (And this was after the OP began to threaten their harasser)

Something like this, isn't that extreme, but it's completely uncalled for and obviously pissed the OP off. Was anything ever done about that?

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13936080#13936080

At least that one wasn't as dramatic and nasty as this:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13923981#13923981


Quote:
A now banned member said:
yes im a troll , and all that i posted about you its true because that is how most of us would react.

so i take logic with a little bit of bullshit .. mix it all up and boom headshot.

and no i did not read your first post.. or the one after or after or... after.

troll or not , if these words affect you personally in any shape or form then i wish death upon you.

weak minded individuals like yourself deserve nothing but annihilation.


dog eat dog world.



Do we really want to allow members to do this to each other, when someone is looking for help or advice?

With behavior like that, I don't understand how this dude is EVER going to be allowed to post here again. But maybe that's just me. :shrug:


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I am me. We are You.

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #13937220 -

It happens in every forum that gives the option of posting anonymously in and is also a side effect of SA being shutdown.


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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: AlmostAsCoolAs]
    #13937298 -

AlmostAsCoolAs said:
It happens in every forum that gives the option of posting anonymously in and is also a side effect of SA being shutdown.



Yes, I agree with both of these statements.

(I also was upset when I saw SA shut down, both because it was fun, and because I knew that we would see more of this.)

Something needs to be done about this, though.

Are we going to let it happen until a troll goads someone into violence against themselves or someone else?

Doesn't seem like it would be terribly hard to hand out long bans to people who do this.

Make them long, or perma-bans, instead of a slap on the wrist for what constitutes purposeful harassment,  and announce that fact--and you'll see this shit clear up in no time.

Anything short of this or reinstating SA will probably not do a lot. Most of these trolls have puppets anyway, so a 60 day ban will barely slow them down.


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I am me. We are You.

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #13937380 -

Trolling is annoying at most. That "now banned user" kind of had a point when he said "If these words affect you personally in any shape or form then i wish death upon you." Though, I would have not worded it as such because I'm not an asshole.

People that get all upset over something someone said online are just as annoying as the trolls themselves.

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: EdgeChaos]
    #13937592 -

EdgeChaos said:
Trolling is annoying at most. That "now banned user" kind of had a point when he said "If these words affect you personally in any shape or form then i wish death upon you." Though, I would have not worded it as such because I'm not an asshole.

People that get all upset over something someone said online are just as annoying as the trolls themselves.



No, that user DID NOT KIND OF HAVE A POINT.

The point is, that user had no business being in that thread in the first place. If he had nothing constructive to say, what was the purpose of his commenting, other than his own selfish gratification?

This person was not trying to offer constructive criticism. They admitted to the fact, openly, that they were trolling.

Are you saying that YOU, yourself, would troll in such a thread, then tell the OP to "not get so upset about it," just in a polite way? Because that's what this guy did. The topic of the thread wasn't "Do people online get you upset."  As such, he should not have been there.

Do you feel that we SHOULD be allowed to troll, harass, and insult people who are looking for help?

Just because you have excellent composure does not mean that everyone else does as well.

Using a similar line of reasoning, I could ask you "Why don't you just stop being annoyed at people who are affected by others?" Maybe because it's not easy for you, to "not be annoyed."

In that same way, it may be "not easy" for certain types of people to control impulses or actions. There are disorders where people show poor impulse control. That's not them "just being weak willed." Some of these impulses are towards self harm or violence.

And in some of those people, some of these tendencies can be triggered by the words or actions of others. This is a fact. This is a potentially dangerous fact when an emotionally unbalanced person, looking for help, is taunted.

That's why sometimes kids come to school and just start shooting anything that moves.

You do not know who the person on the other end of that computer is.

I'm surprised more people aren't thinking of this kind of thing. Especially with the media hype that suicide linked to bullying has gotten in the last year.

Whether or not you approve, the fact is that your words may affect other people. Your words may even drive them to action. You should be nice, because this is one way that can end:



And this is the other way:





Quote:
Michael Moore: If you were to talk directly to the kids at Columbine, or the people in that community, what would you say to them if they were here right now?

Marilyn Manson: I wouldn't say a single word to 'em. I would listen to what they have to say, and that's what no one did.




Quote:
Dylan {Kleibolt} had a really big impact on me. He was a really really depressed kid, and I found out that I really couldn't transmit who he was, or why he did it, until I understood his pain. Until I saw the world from the same miserable perspective he did.

It's his slow evolution to murder that's truly shocking and startling, because it could be ANY kid.



{Regarding the Virginia Tech Shooter}
Quote:
In his 1,800 word diatribe, he expresses rage, resentment, and a desire to get even. With exactly whom, he never says.



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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #13939515 -

I am annoyed and that is all. I do not seek action against those who annoy me because I have the choice to leave at any time, and I'm not an asshole. On these forums we have the privilege of not seeing peoples posts might bother us AKA the ignore feature.

This is the statement that started the issue.

Anonymous said:
Kinko said:
looks like you ruined your life.

im no better tho ,
i dropped out of high school when i was 16 never got my GED.
when i apply for jobs i always mark i graduated high school and its never really a problem...

...but then again... i guess your drug addiction will keep you from doing anything to better yourself in the future , so you will probably die from an OD.



You're right. You're no better. And you just proved it by being a fucking dickhead and trolling in the thread of someone who is legitimately looking for help.

Also, Note that I did get my GED right away and I have actually continued my education past high school. I've tried. You're just a fucking loser. There's a difference.

Here's some proof: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/viewratings.php?usernum=242276

Do me a favor and post some kind of stupid identifying information. Like you said, I have nothing to lose. And I think I've just proven to everyone I'm a little unstable. Go for it fanboy. Show us how big you are.

Yeah, it takes a lot of guts to come into a thread where someone pretty much pours their heart and life story out (or a lot of it, at least) and you just fling insults, and try to inspire more hopelessness in a depressed person...for what?

Someone please permaban this motherfucker before I make more decisions I regret.





Instead of over reacting OP should have simply used the ignore feature.


But I do see your point and have a solution:

What I suggest is the abolition of Mental Wellbeing. It is a forum dedicated to trolls an unstable people where this kind of drama breeds vigorously, and because of its anonymous nature there is no real way to tell if the OP was a troll to begin with.

Even if there are members on the shroomery that are qualified to assist unstable people. I do not believe we should be offering people an anonymous space to spill their heart out to the internet. What they need is a professional evaluation, what they get is a bunch of well meaning unqualified people affecting their decision making.

If some kid kills themselves after posting about suicide, and leaves open the window. Their mom finds it and blames all the well meant unqualifieds on "Shroomery.org Official Mental Wellbeing Forum". Maybe nothing will happen and she will resent us forever. Maybe she will talk to a news organisation and they will air a story on fox nightly news about how Shroomery.org is playing psychiatrist with mentally unstable children.

As for now I choose to stay the away from that place as it is a breeding ground for internet drama to bleed over into the real world.

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: EdgeChaos]
    #13940367 -

The inevitable question is whether you've reported these instances or if not, if there's some reason you haven't.

Are  you saying this is a continuing problem? Is the problem that you disagree with the moderator's position or the rules in that forum or that there simply isn't enough moderation?

I agree some of those seem pretty stupid, but wondering what the forum mods have to say or whether they've had the time to lock into the threads.

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: johnm214]
    #13940615 -

1- I give you every assurance that OP was not a troll. I know this for fact, friend.

2- Drugs can cause or exacerbate mental/emotional problems. As such, I think it is responsible to have a well-being forum.  Not to mention that this forum also encompasses healthy living, which is a worthy topic.

3- A moderator was notified pretty quickly after that first post was made. I know that more than one person alerted a mod, and this guy was still allowed to go back in there and dish out abuse, for about a day, before anything was done.

4- This guy uses the "OP should ignore the troll" argument. I use the "troll should have ignored the OP" argument. Which one has more of a right to do what they were doing???? THAT IS THE REAL QUESTION.


5- I suggest that instead of abolishing the forum, we just permaban anyone who trolls there. That way, we can keep these forums for the people who actually need them.

Why punish those who need help, and reward trolls?

This is NOT the vibe that most people expect when they come here.

This actually makes me want to leave this place a little bit. If mods keep allowing this to happen, one day this board is going to be nothing like it started, and nothing like it was intended. This will become, entirely, a den of trolls. No one will come here for help.


The Shroomery: Abuse Demystified.


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I am me. We are You.

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #13941285 -

1- I give you every assurance that OP was not a troll. I know this for fact, friend.

--My point was not that this particular person was, but that there is no way to tell due to the anonymous nature of the posts.

2- Drugs can cause or exacerbate mental/emotional problems. As such, I think it is responsible to have a well-being forum.  Not to mention that this forum also encompasses healthy living, which is a worthy topic.

--My main concern is that we are taking emotionally disturbed people and placing them into a place where you can post anonymously. Can we even ban anonymous posters?

3- A moderator was notified pretty quickly after that first post was made. I know that more than one person alerted a mod, and this guy was still allowed to go back in there and dish out abuse, for about a day, before anything was done.

--I would like to hear what the mod in the forum has to say. once again OP should have used the ignore feature, or dare I say, just regular ignored him.

4- This guy uses the "OP should ignore the troll" argument. I use the "troll should have ignored the OP" argument. Which one has more of a right to do what they were doing???? THAT IS THE REAL QUESTION.

--Sure, the troll should have minded his own business, but everyone knows that is the opposite of what trolls do. Who has the "right" to do what they were doing is completely irrelevant because it happened you can't just say the troll had no right and make it not have happened. It happened, the ball was in the OP's court, and he made the wrong decision only to further incite the douche who was insulting him. He should have used the ignore feature and dropped it.


5- I suggest that instead of abolishing the forum, we just permaban anyone who trolls there. That way, we can keep these forums for the people who actually need them.

Why punish those who need help, and reward trolls?

This is NOT the vibe that most people expect when they come here.

This actually makes me want to leave this place a little bit. If mods keep allowing this to happen, one day this board is going to be nothing like it started, and nothing like it was intended. This will become, entirely, a den of trolls. No one will come here for help.


--I would agree that tighter moderation on that forum is probably for the best if allowed to stay in it's current state.

I know, lets charge 10-20 dollars for access to the site (eliminating the under age problem) and permaban anyone who posts something stupid (eliminating the stupid asshole problem).

If you want to leave you probably should. Last thing we need is a bunch of trolls complaining about how trolls b trollin.

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: EdgeChaos]
    #13941424 -

EdgeChaos said:
--My main concern is that we are taking emotionally disturbed people and placing them into a place where you can post anonymously. Can we even ban anonymous posters?


Yes, the mods can see who is posting. That poses no problem.

And I do see what you're saying there. I think the anon function is vital for topic starting in those forums, and "nice" to have for replies. But is there a way we could keep the ability to start a thread anonymously but restrict anyone but the OP from posting anon in that thread? That would at least take care of the anonymous trolls. Those who don't have the balls to insult people with their identity showing..

The troll in this case indicated that this was their intent. (On a post after their first) But messed up and posted it under their screen-name. Regardless...


EdgeChaos said:
--Sure, the troll should have minded his own business, but everyone knows that is the opposite of what trolls do. Who has the "right" to do what they were doing is completely irrelevant because it happened you can't just say the troll had no right and make it not have happened. It happened, the ball was in the OP's court, and he made the wrong decision only to further incite the douche who was insulting him. He should have used the ignore feature and dropped it.



The one thing I'll concede to here is that the OP should have ignored it. You are right. But it is not always easy for a person to do this when they are in an emotional / distressed / panicked state, which is sometimes the case in such posts. (And certainly the case in this one.)

I mention that some people here deal with mental illness, because that's what it is--an illness. If such people controlled those things with ease, the psychiatric industry (and even the self-help industry) would not be the giants that they are today.




EdgeChaos said:
I know, lets charge 10-20 dollars for access to the site (eliminating the under age problem) and permaban anyone who posts something stupid (eliminating the stupid asshole problem).

If you want to leave you probably should. Last thing we need is a bunch of trolls complaining about how trolls b trollin.



While I think it's good to have this site free, and I don't think that will change really soon, I would almost RATHER have to pay to come here, than to have to deal with some of that stuff, and see it going on, yes.

When you say "permaban anyone who posts something stupid" you're obviously being a bit extreme with your interpretation of my view. And judging by your last paragraph, you either seem to misunderstand it, or misrepresent it.

I say, have an absolute trollfest in OTD and even loose-with-the-rules in the pub.  Someone calls me a fag there, I'm not going to cry. Most people who know better even expect it a little bit.

I think that ALL of the focused forums should be a little more strict, than the previously mentioned.. because these forums have a focus for a reason--intelligent discourse and information. Trolls only take away from this.

The creation of those forums itself DOES, in fact, imply that people have the right to start respectful topic discussions of their choice. The right of trolls is implied nowhere on this forum but OTD.

And my final amendment is, as I said, that the two aforementioned forums should be TIGHTLY moderated against trolls due to the sometimes serious nature of the subject matter.


I do not think I'm being unreasonable.


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I am me. We are You.

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #13941604 -

"While I think it's good to have this site free, and I don't think that will change really soon, I would almost RATHER have to pay to come here, than to have to deal with some of that stuff, and see it going on, yes."

--This idea is not all that far fetched and is successful elsewhere.

"When you say "permaban anyone who posts something stupid" you're obviously being a bit extreme with your interpretation of my view. And judging by your last paragraph, you either seem to misunderstand it, or misrepresent it."

--I was over exaggerating a bit.

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #13945605 -

CidneyIndole said:
3- A moderator was notified pretty quickly after that first post was made. I know that more than one person alerted a mod, and this guy was still allowed to go back in there and dish out abuse, for about a day, before anything was done.



Could you be specific here.  There's a lot of cross talk and I'm not sure what particularly your complaining of and what the problem you see is.  What poster in this example?  What post?  (I assume you mean the one where the guy responded "yay, I got laid, so I'll tell people on the interent, or something like that).

You say a moderator was notified but the guy was allowed to go back "in there" for about a day.  What is the actual complaint?  That the moderator made a bad decision/no decision/ slow response time/ the instance was never resolved and the member keeps trolling/ the issue is typical of growing problem in that forum/ what?  You kinda need to be specific here about the problem if you want anything done.  i.e. what moderator looked at it and what specifically is the problem with that forum apart from that one example?

If the poster you mention is much of the problem, then maybe whichever moderator looked at it, you haven't said, wasn't aware the situation was ongoing rather than that one example.

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: johnm214]
    #13946208 -

John we are referring to the other post I linked to, where a troll taunnted the OP who was having suicidal thoughts and expressing difficulty coping with their problems.

It was severe trolling.

I did not write this because someone made a snide comment about someone bragging on the internet.


johnm214 said:
You say a moderator was notified but the guy was allowed to go back "in there" for about a day.  What is the actual complaint?  That the moderator made a bad decision/no decision/ slow response time/ the instance was never resolved and the member keeps trolling/ the issue is typical of growing problem in that forum/ what?  You kinda need to be specific here about the problem if you want anything done.  i.e. what moderator looked at it and what specifically is the problem with that forum apart from that one example?

If the poster you mention is much of the problem, then maybe whichever moderator looked at it, you haven't said, wasn't aware the situation was ongoing rather than that one example.


This particular incident was only a problem for a bit over a day. And I thought I fully described the situation.

My complaint is that

1- This is an ongoing issue with multiple trolls

2- It took forever for that one example to be resolved. That could have been long enough for something bad to happen. This guy then got a 60 day vacay after which I'm sure he'll be back for more.

3- This is a general problem, as I describe quite in detail above. Please re-read my thoughts on what we need to do about trolling on these forums. I thought I had answered all those questions in my posts above (though I do see I was unclear about which of my links we were focusing on.)

And if you have an extra minute to kill, how was I unclear? I wrote for a long time, mentioned specific points, and even bolded some stuff. Have you been reading my posts?  I'm confused...





Edited by CidneyIndole (02/11/11 03:18 PM)

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: CidneyIndole] * 2
    #13947966 -

If you witness any trolling going on and I'm online, I'll take care of it, as should any mod.  We can't prevent it, but we can fix it when it arises.

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: Newbie]
    #13965499 -

I appreciate that.

I do however disagree with the statement about prevention. I think doing what I described above might prevent a lot of it.


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I am me. We are You.

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #13965504 -

Here's a fresh example of someone trolling in sexuality and relationships:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13965444#13965444


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I am me. We are You.

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #13965544 -

Unfortunately I'm not a mod of that forum and there must be a mod online now because I can't edit the post or add an infraction to the user.  Notify a mod of that forum and they should take care of it.

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: Newbie]
    #13965811 -

A mod was notified before I posted that.

It doesn't look like anything was done. The lame troll made up a lame excuse (which I'm guessing a lame moderator believed?)


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I am me. We are You.

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #14006928 -

As much as I and the other mods of those forums try, we can not always read every post of every thread.

thats why there is the NOTIFY mod button. (its the little one with a whistle on the bottom of every post)

click it, fill in the box with why you clicked it, and We'll take care of it ASAP :smile:


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PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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Re: TROLLING in Sexuality and also Well-Being [Re: ZippoZ]
    #14006952 -

also as for this post...

Quote:
looks like you ruined your life.

im no better tho ,
i dropped out of high school when i was 16 never got my GED.
when i apply for jobs i always mark i graduated high school and its never really a problem.

if you got nothing to lose why not go for it?
create a character , explore the world.
move large amounts of drugs and make a shit load of money , go out of the country , fuck some women and enjoy life again.

but then again... i guess your drug addiction will keep you from doing anything to better yourself in the future , so you will probably die from an OD.


I'd honestly let it stand... It might not be the nicest thing to hear, but it brings about a point, even if done so sarcastically or even moderately mockingly.

if the user posted this, and then got a response from you, and continued to post in this fashion (egging you on so to speak) i'd ban him in a heartbeat.

but like i said, use the notify button, the green team will be all over that :notify:


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PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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