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Shop: Myyco.com APE Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: giza]
    #13832659 -

giza said:
My guess would be fear. I didn't see the show but did the baboons all interact with each other in natural conditions or was it controlled?

If it was natural my guess would be that the baboons are fearful of the 'top dog' which imo creates a significant amount of stress. But if controlled you would have to factor in the human interaction which would make the examination flawed imo.

On the shorter life span, well.. wouldn't a top dog have more of a will to survive? The others living in a state of stress would have less drive imo.

About the feeling of being on top.. I've felt that way through one of my delusions and it is a great euphoria the feeling of being important / ruling over others.. basically I'm guessing fear is the greatest factor in it.



It was in a natural setting in Africa.  And the shorted lifespan was due to the effects of stress on the body as I posted. Hardening of the arteries and high blood pressure etc. And of course stress is due to fear. What else?:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: Icelander]
    #13832888 -

Hunger

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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: Icelander]
    #13832912 -

Icelander said:
Right, it's very interesting isn't it.  I wonder what it feels like to be on top of the heap?


You should ask that to another schizophrenic on that one if you don't believe me. I have severe delusions of grandeur and that relates to what you're asking.. honestly it is awesome.

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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: giza]
    #13832962 -

I believe you. Nature rewards it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: Icelander]
    #13833106 -

Icelander said:
The researcher who spent 15 years in the field with them said frankly he didn't like them. They seemed vindictive and cruel and scheming and were usually looking for an advantage an picking on the weak.

Did s/he observe any occurrences of compassionate behavior?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: Poid]
    #13833135 -

In baboons?  Probably not.  You typically don't see that in primates lower than apes and hominids. 

How's that old saying go?  Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much the same every day.


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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13833157 -

zappaisgod said:
In baboons?  Probably not.  You typically don't see that in primates lower than apes and hominids.

Then I don't agree that nature always "favors the strongest, meanest, cunningest, over the meek, mild, fearful, peaceful"; I think the strongest, meanest, & cunningest animals are usually successful if they belong to a species that doesn't exhibit compassionate behavior, but I don't think that such animals necessarily have much success if they belong to a species that does exhibit compassionate behavior (e.g. humans).


zappaisgod said:
How's that old saying go?  Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much the same every day.

I don't really get that. :crazy:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: Icelander]
    #13833161 -

Ahhhhh.  Gotcha!

Watching...


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: Poid] * 1
    #13833180 -

Poid said:
zappaisgod said:
In baboons?  Probably not.  You typically don't see that in primates lower than apes and hominids.

Then I don't agree that nature always "favors the strongest, meanest, cunningest, over the meek, mild, fearful, peaceful"; I think the strongest, meanest, & cunningest animals are usually successful if they belong to a species that doesn't exhibit compassionate behavior, but I don't think that such animals necessarily have much success if they belong to a species that does exhibit compassionate behavior (e.g. humans).


No, probably not necessarily.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
How's that old saying go?  Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much the same every day.

I don't really get that. :crazy:


Consider sled dogs.


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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13833220 -

zappaisgod said:
Poid said:
Then I don't agree that nature always "favors the strongest, meanest, cunningest, over the meek, mild, fearful, peaceful"; I think the strongest, meanest, & cunningest animals are usually successful if they belong to a species that doesn't exhibit compassionate behavior, but I don't think that such animals necessarily have much success if they belong to a species that does exhibit compassionate behavior (e.g. humans).


No, probably not necessarily.

I think that violence and meanness etc. actually generally serve to degrade the quality of life in humans; strength and cunningn can be used to either help or harm other humans, so I don't think those qualities themselves affect a human's quality of life as much as how those qualities are used do.

People who harm others and are found out usually do not live lives of decent quality. :mob:

:cop:


zappaisgod said:
Consider sled dogs.

Oh, I see. :angrydog:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (01/22/11 07:30 PM)

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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: Poid]
    #13833235 -

The meek shall inherit the earth - face down in the dirt.


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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13833252 -



--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: Poid]
    #13833342 -

Poid said:
Icelander said:
The researcher who spent 15 years in the field with them said frankly he didn't like them. They seemed vindictive and cruel and scheming and were usually looking for an advantage an picking on the weak.

Did s/he observe any occurrences of compassionate behavior?



Mothers and babies.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: Icelander]
    #13833372 -

So then it's not true that nature "favors the strongest, meanest, cunningest, over the meek, mild, fearful, peaceful", is it? That strength, meanness, and cunning wouldn't even exist if it weren't for a compassionate mother.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: Poid]
    #13833412 -

I don't really think it is at all appropriate to anthropomorphize baboon behavior by using the word "compassionate".  I sincerely doubt they have the capacity for it.  They have innate nurturing behaviors that have been inherited for millions of years to ensure the propagation of the species.  Consider also that even chimps will commit infanticide on occasion.


--------------------

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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13833472 -

zappaisgod said:
I don't really think it is at all appropriate to anthropomorphize baboon behavior by using the word "compassionate".  I sincerely doubt they have the capacity for it.

Do you have any evidence to support this doubt, though?


zappaisgod said:
They have innate nurturing behaviors that have been inherited for millions of years to ensure the propagation of the species.

How is that different than our innate nurturing behaviors?


zappaisgod said:
Consider also that even chimps will commit infanticide on occasion.

Humans do that, too. :shrug:



--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: Poid]
    #13833517 -

What about the Top Frog, surely Amphibians are more empathetic toward each other ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0auCDOERZyE

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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: Poid] * 1
    #13834568 -

Poid said:
So then it's not true that nature "favors the strongest, meanest, cunningest, over the meek, mild, fearful, peaceful", is it? That strength, meanness, and cunning wouldn't even exist if it weren't for a compassionate mother.


Well that's a good point.  I already know that balance is what it's all about. I make posts like these to point out to people that say the universe is this benign all loving thing that it just ain't that way.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: Icelander]
    #13834616 -

Icelander said:
I make posts like these to point out to people that say the universe is this benign all loving thing that it just ain't that way.:satansmoking:

Well I commend you for that effort. :poshdance:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Stress and the top dog. [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #13835448 -

Icelander said:
I make posts like these to point out to people that say the universe is this benign all loving thing that it just ain't that way. And that is primarily because I am just another one of nature's abhorrent, scoffing, talking monkeys :satansmoking:



:datass:


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

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Shop: Myyco.com APE Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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