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InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
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Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
dogs are idiots
    #2286206 - 01/30/04 04:28 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

even the "smart" dogs are idiots. the dogs that do tricks are only responding to the reward incentive better than the "dumb" dogs. all dogs just complete the little move it takes to get their owner to shell out a treat or get their ears scratched because that is all the dog cares about. people domesticated dogs from wolves a long time ago so the dogs have the instinct to chase reward, like the wolves did in the wild. the only reason dogs are safe to be around people is because people have bred them to be dumber than wolves...this is the difference between domisticated sheep vs mountain goats.

this is at least the evolutionary explanation of it all but i believe there is alot more to the dog and human relationship. can evolution explain this? i have never had a dog but i want to get one some day...i like dogs...they are very comforting.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: dogs are idiots [Re: TODAY]
    #2286241 - 01/30/04 04:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think it's arrogant to assume any animal is "stupid". First of all that statement imposes human standards, not only human standards but civilized human standards on a creature that is clearly unique. Isn't it feasibly possible that dogs are every bit as intelligent as human beings, only they realize the utter stupidity of the ways we express our intelligence? Who knows. I'm not ruling it out.

If they don't measure up to human qualifiers they must be dumb right? I can't buy it. Even if it could be fairly argued that dogs or other animals are unintelligent does it matter? Are only intelligent beings worthy of respect?

I agree with you that there is a lot more to the relationship then just a reward incentive. There is clearly a bond that goes beyond that. I have a hard time believing that this incredible dog sleeping beside me is here to be rewarded when he's just as often given to me as I've given to him.


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InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: dogs are idiots [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2286273 - 01/30/04 04:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
I agree with you that there is a lot more to the relationship then just a reward incentive. There is clearly a bond that goes beyond that. I have a hard time believing that this incredible dog sleeping beside me is here to be rewarded when he's just as often given to me as I've given to him.




yeah, its a big mystery. i was speaking from an evolutionary standpoint where all species that wish to survive must be strong and be constantly on the search for sustinance. its a survival tool that has passed on through the evolution of the ancenstors of the species to the actual animal in question, whatever animal it may be. however...i believe there is something more to relationships in the animal kingdom (including human relationships and interspecies relationships) than just primal evolution, you know...maybe that's what i'm trying to say in this post. cleared it up a bit?


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,944
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Re: dogs are idiots [Re: TODAY]
    #2286351 - 01/30/04 06:51 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

My dog, a Lhasa Ahpso....is unlike any other dog I've ever had.

She has these eyes....that look human, like you can really see the soul in her, she's very empathic.
Everybody has pointed it out too, at one time or another. It's almost a lil freaky. But I love it.
She's a really beautiful and awesome dog.



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleG a n j a
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Re: dogs are idiots [Re: TODAY]
    #2286371 - 01/30/04 07:27 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

My dog is an idiot, he eats months old
road kill, and horse poo.

but i love him none the less :grin:



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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: dogs are idiots [Re: G a n j a]
    #2286857 - 01/30/04 01:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineShroomerious
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Registered: 07/27/03
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Re: dogs are idiots [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2286954 - 01/30/04 01:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

First of all that statement imposes human standards, not only human standards but civilized human standards on a creature that is clearly unique.




I agree. When someone starts to make a comparison, a baseline must me established first because this is the only way to actually make a comparison. So, having chosen human as the basic line, is already a bit unfair.

I have two dogs and a cat. So I don't know if my opinion can be considered as impassionate but what I believe is that dogs have a certain degree of intelligence which allows them to perform some basic functions, some of them are to remember and compare. So when someone punishes the dog repeatedly because it didn't do the trick it's owner wanted, eventually the dog learns how to do it.

Finally there is the possibility that dogs feel that is for their best interest not to reveal their real identity, which could be that they are more intelligent than us and really their name shouldn't be dogs but gods. :nut: :crazy2: :crazy2: :nut: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I made it sound funny but I mean it. :wtf: Think about it. Can you say that it isn't possible?


--------------------


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
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Re: dogs are idiots [Re: TODAY]
    #2287113 - 01/30/04 02:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

dogs are idiots

Yes... they are...

My dogs are fucking retarded, hedonistic, mounds of flesh.
Though, like Ganja and Evolving, I still love them.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Posts: 9,944
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Re: dogs are idiots [Re: TODAY]
    #2287169 - 01/30/04 03:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

even the "smart" dogs are idiots. the dogs that do tricks are only responding to the reward incentive better than the "dumb" dogs. all dogs just complete the little move it takes to get their owner to shell out a treat or get their ears scratched because that is all the dog cares about.

By these sort of parameters.... Men can also be considered idiots...  :wink:





--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: dogs are idiots [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2287514 - 01/30/04 05:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hahhah, nice diagram of the male brain there Skorpivo :smirk:


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: dogs are idiots [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2289343 - 01/31/04 11:25 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

All humans are really just working towards certain desires. Be it food, status, sex, or relationships.

We've just figured out how to reward ourselves better.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
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Re: dogs are idiots [Re: TODAY]
    #2289537 - 01/31/04 02:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Dogs just want food and attention.

Some of them may be idiots.

A lot of people are idiots.

Dogs are awesome. Animals help you live longer.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: dogs are idiots [Re: Shroomism]
    #2289633 - 01/31/04 02:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Exactly. People just want food and attention as well, we've just figured out elaborate and complex ways to achieve what are basically the same goals. The dogs that can determine cause and effect with more accuracy have an advantage, and some dogs even seem to be able to try different ideas to achieve specific goals. Such as figuring out how to open a latch that was installed to keep the dog out of the garbage. These are really the same traits that intelligent humans posess. Observation as a means of gathering useful information, and the ability to find creative solutions to problems.

I was thinking, it's probably fairly likely that we've bred dogs to have certain facial expressions that are similar to humans. You know that really cute "pathetic" look dogs will give you sometimes? The one that makes you throw it table scraps?

You don't see wolves making that face. I think that those are the dogs we've kept around us and fed because they mimic human facial expressions that foster empathy on our part.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: dogs are idiots [Re: Phluck]
    #2289748 - 01/31/04 03:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

if i get a dog i think it will be a pitbull or a german shepard...a powerful/intimidating respectable dog...why breed of dogs do you all have? don't say poodle


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: dogs are idiots [Re: TODAY]
    #2289919 - 01/31/04 05:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Check  this site out, you can order heavily military-trained combat-German Shephards imported directly from Slovakia.

I've thoroughly checked out the entire site...it is badass.

I'm gonna get me one of those.  :biggrin:

Quote:


CQB K-9 is providing due to numerous requests, highly trained German Shepherd Dogs for families, women in danger, felony crime victims, and business owners requiring an alarm system, bodyguard, companion, and family member, all in one package.

We start with assessing the dog?s health first, then protection abilities, temperament and social skills for being around children, other family members, and pets/animals. Advanced training takes place in personally by me in the USA. My experience working with dogs from anti-terrorist operations to placing dogs for executive protection, insures you are getting the best dog for the most affordable price.

The dog is trained on and off leash in a variety of situations, such as guarding loved ones and house/property from home invasion robberies, protecting you while in your vehicle from car-jacking, going to the ATM, performing security inside your place of business from thugs, and other custom tailored situations depending on your needs.

Our Personal Protection Dogs are a viable alternative to weapons, OC spray or alarms. Criminals interviewed state the last thing they want to come up against is a trained dog. Contact CQB K-9 and learn about obtaining a quality German Shepherd Dog from Slovak Republic Police & Working Dog bloodlines (z Pohranicni Straze & Polica).


CQB K-9? Counter-terrorist Dog Teams are the final option for today's terrorist. Hostage rescue, Counter-sniper, Maritime, and Urban assault surgical extractions are our specialty. A covert entry or insertion by helicopter, CQB K-9? is at the razor's edge in operational deployments with the use in Counter-terrorist K-9's. We regularly deploy with and instruct elite Counter-terrorist K-9 units throughout the world in the latest advanced tactics and techniques.

Contact us for special training for your Department or Unit.


Owner & Slovakian Instructor are both trained in the secret methods from trainers of former Soviet Bloc satellite countries. Utilizing only praise and correction and positive reinforcement with our dogs. We NEVER hit our dogs or use shock collars in our training.
We use a psychic and mental method from the Eastern Bloc to make the handler and dog function as a single entity. Inquire for more details about our unique curriculum.


Standard training areas:
Live 9mm & 5.56mm gunfire
Fire & explosions
CS & Mace gas
Slippery floors
Elevators & escalators
Building searches
Crowds
Night movements/patrol
Search & tracking
Vehicle operations
Defense & prey drives
Advanced protection


Advanced training areas:
Anti-stalker
Witness protection
Vehicle & property guarding
Advanced patrolling & tracking
Muzzle work
Detection
Rappelling
Explosives & IED's
Special Operations


Our dogs are only fed strict nutritional guidelines that we have standardized for working K-9's. Meat, wild game, pasta & broth are hand-cooked for their active lifestyles as they are used to in Slovakia.

We regularly train at 43 C, desert and urban settings to frozen, 3,000m+ mountain tops for all around physical fitness. The dogs and handlers are beyond reproach in health and endurance. Most of our training takes place nocturnally, to bring out the dogs' natural instincts as night hunters (Schattenj?ger).

We can deploy anywhere in the world as German Shepherd Dogs are the most versatile for this purpose. As former special forces team members, you are assured of getting the most experienced and skilled operators, along with the most extensive training available, anywhere.






http://www.cqbk9.com/index.html



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineTrip
Lost Pilgrim

Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 285
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: dogs are idiots [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2290063 - 01/31/04 06:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i have a beagle and duachsund (sp?). theyre two of the dumbest creatures on gods green earth but god damn theyre sweet as hell. i like it like that though. they remind me of cartoon characters


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InvisibleG a n j a
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Re: dogs are idiots [Re: TODAY]
    #2290102 - 01/31/04 07:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)



I have a german shepard/rottweilier cross.

I once watched a documentery on dogs, and it
said that dogs were simply stuck in a juvenile
state, only becoming more wolf like away from
habitation for an extended time. But that all
there current behaviours were present in wolves.

I think we have selectively bred certain
behaviours into dogs, as in morroco, any dog
that bites someone, is normally beat to death
there and then, so dogs seem to be quite friendly there.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: dogs are idiots [Re: Phluck]
    #2290195 - 01/31/04 07:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
I think that those are the dogs we?ve kept around us and fed because they mimic human facial expressions that foster empathy on our part.




Hmmmm......


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Offlinenicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard
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Re: dogs are idiots [Re: TODAY]
    #2290433 - 01/31/04 09:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TODAY said:
if i get a dog i think it will be a pitbull or a german shepard...a powerful/intimidating respectable dog...why breed of dogs do you all have? don't say poodle




I have a pitbull named Bradley. He's like the coolest and smartest dog in the world. I've had him for like 3 years or so. He LOVES people and other animals, and is VERY trainable. He's very nice towards people, but also very protective towards me and my friends(especially the ladies). After owning Bradley, I don't know if I will ever want a different breed. You hear alot of bad press about pitbulls, but I think it's all media hype.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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InvisibleSpiffy
Defender of theGnomes

Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 1,693
Loc: Next to your mom
Re: dogs are idiots [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2290768 - 02/01/04 12:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

that website is very fishy to me. I wouldn't buy a dog from them without seriously checking their credentials.

1. The paragraphs typed in broken english aren't smooth and seem fake.
2. They emphasise several times what a "serious" business this is
3. They require prepayment which is odd but even more so when you see: "Full payment (Wire transfer, International Money Order, Cashier?s check, or City/County/State/Federal check, or cash)" Why wouldn't a legitimate business accept more secure forms of payment such as a credit card?


--------------------
Namaste: "I honour that place in you where the whole Universe resides. And when I am in that place in me and you are in that place in you,
there is only one of us."


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