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Man cured from HIV?
    #13633208 -

Here is the original article I stumbled upon:

http://gizmodo.com/5713498/man-officially-cured-of-hiv?skyline=true&s=i



Seems legit, but the process is still hard and expensive enough that only rich bastard can afford it. Oh and most of HIV research is done off using HIV children of Africa anyway... kind of ironic. But success nonethless. Didn't actually believe it to be so soon.


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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: Simms]
    #13633220 -

damn thats awesome


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:stoner:
All posts made from this account are for entertainment purposes only.
i do not participate in or condone any illegal activities.

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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: encephalization]
    #13633317 -

I think we need to ban stem cell research.


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Push th' little daisies and make 'em come up.

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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: WalterShabas]
    #13633387 -

You religious Americans can ban everything you want, this was done in Europe :laugh:


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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: Simms]
    #13633487 -

Simms said:
You religious Americans can ban everything you want, this was done in Europe :laugh:


a) stem cell research was never banned in america
b) from what the article has said there is no reason to think this therapy would have been excluded from federal funding during the bush years.  These aren't the stem cells with moral implications burdensome to some.

Simms said:
Oh and most of HIV research is done off using HIV children of Africa anyway... kind of ironic. But success nonethless. Didn't actually believe it to be so soon.



Why is that ironic?

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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: johnm214]
    #13633575 -

johnm214 said:
a) stem cell research was never banned in america



I never said it was.


johnm214 said:
Simms said:
Oh and most of HIV research is done off using HIV children of Africa anyway... kind of ironic. But success nonethless. Didn't actually believe it to be so soon.



Why is that ironic?



Because that is some nasty shit going on there, pharma compaines testing their new experimental drugs, for profit, something which they never do in the developed countries. Most of the medical aid is actually drug testing for commercial purposes. There is no food, but there are some weird medicines which give side effects, partialy influenced by lack of natural nutrients. The locals do not actually know they are participating in an experiment and taking untested drugs.

I don't know how much this particular case has relevance to it but it is just a mention.


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Edited by Simms (12/14/10 07:25 PM)

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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: Simms]
    #13633667 -


Simms said:
johnm214 said:
a) stem cell research was never banned in america



I never said it was.




Then what is the relevance of your post stating You religious Americans can ban everything you want, this was done in Europe ?

There seems a lot of confusion about what the american policy was.  To my knowledge, this procedure and therapy would not have been subject to any restrictions whatsoever vis a vis their use of stemcells, even during the Bush years.


Quote:
johnm214 said:
Simms said:
Oh and most of HIV research is done off using HIV children of Africa anyway... kind of ironic. But success nonethless. Didn't actually believe it to be so soon.



Why is that ironic?



Because that is some nasty shit going on there, pharma compaines testing their new experimental drugs, for profit, something which they never do in the developed countries.


Sure they do.  a) everything they do re: drug development is for profit, they are in the buisness of selling drugs,

b) yes they do test their new experimental drugs for profit in the developed countries.  I have friends that have taken unapproved medication as part of studies regarding its metabolism and side effects.  This goes on nationwide and is generally required by the FDA.  Unless there's a peculiarity with the drug making it unsuitable for well-patients, the drug is generally tested on healthy folks to determine its kinetics and effects, and then is tried in the target patient population.  Both occur in American frequently, as an example.


Quote:
Most of the medical aid is actually drug testing for commercial purposes. There is no food, but there are some weird medicines which give side effects, partialy influenced by lack of natural nutrients. The locals do not actually know they are participating in an experiment and taking untested drugs.



Source?

I've heard a lot of bruhaha about this kinda thing, but most of it seems a bit silly.  IMO its somewhat prejudiced and improper to assume US folks can be trusted to decide if they want to take a drug, for profit even, yet the ignorant Africans are too stupid to understand the risks.

Given the recipients have no right to aid of any kind whatsoever, I don't particularly see the relevance of the point that it is pharmaceutical rather than edible goods.

But who knows, Africa is nuts.  How many presidents over there, and other high ranking officials, still publically deny or doubt that HIV causes AIDS?

Edited by johnm214 (12/14/10 07:59 PM)

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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: Simms]
    #13633691 -

1) I would be careful taking anything from Gizmodo to be the truth when it comes to medical science.

2) If you read the journal paper they cite, following the link reading "appears to have completely cured Brown of HIV" the paper actually discusses "Long-Term Control of HIV".  Given that ability of HIV to hide in the body, and not show up for years to decades after infection, it is very premature to claim that the man is cured.  In fact, the journal paper actually says:

Quote:
Although the patient had non–CCR5-tropic X4 variants and HAART was discontinued for more than 20 months, HIV-1 virus could not be detected in peripheral blood, bone marrow, or rectal mucosa, as assessed with RNA and proviral DNA PCR assays.  For as long as the viral load continues to be undetectable, this patient will not require antiretroviral therapy.


"For as long as the viral load continues to be undetectable" is a far cry from "appears to have completely cured Brown of HIV" claimed by Gizmodo.

3) If you follow the second link that reads "his doctors given the official word: He's cured.", I can only read the abstract (without shelling out money).  However, the last line of the abstract reads:
Quote:
In conclusion, our results strongly suggest that cure of HIV has been achieved in this patient.


Again, "strongly suggest" is not beyond any doubt as the Gizmodo article, titled "Man Officially Cured of HIV", would have us believe.

Horrid reporting, but about what I have come to expect from Gizmodo.  For them, it is all about money, journalistic ethics be damned.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: Seuss]
    #13635632 -

2000-2008...man werent we stuck in the dark ages for a bit.


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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: Simms]
    #13642839 -

Simms said:
Oh and most of HIV research is done off using HIV children of Africa anyway... kind of ironic. But success nonethless. Didn't actually believe it to be so soon.


This is for logistical and ethical reasons.

The incidence of HIV is incredibly high in Africa.  This allows you to statistically pick up a positive result much easier. 

Ethically, you don't want to test an HIV vaccine in the Western world because, well, it might not work.  An individual might expose themself to unnecessary risk.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: badchad]
    #13645232 -

badchad said:
Ethically, you don't want to test an HIV vaccine in the Western world because, well, it might not work.  An individual might expose themself to unnecessary risk.


What exactly does that mean?


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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: cortex]
    #13645280 -

That the informed consent procedure would entail informing the person of the nature of the medical procedure to be preformed and the goal of the vaccine.  They might then subject themselves to unnecessary risk, having false confidence in their immunity.  Since Africans aren't worth as much as americans, its better to take that chance with the later.

j/k about the last, it liability

I disagree with badchad about the ethics of that btw.  medical review boards and others seem to be very patronizing.  Not that medicine itself isn't needlesssly paternalistic, but its the same evile here.  If someone wants to consent for a vaccine, let em.  The academic's beliefs that he knows better what the proper values and considerations should be are rubbish.

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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: johnm214]
    #13647439 -

johnm214 said:
The academic's beliefs that he knows better what the proper values and considerations should be are rubbish.


Although it varies depending on the study, for many studies a high school education (or equivalent) and the ability to read and write english are the minimum requirements for inclusion.

In my opinion, an academic professor who has been in the field for decades and intricately studied numerous novel vaccines, is MUCH more qualified to understand the risk:benefit ratio of a new compound than a high school drop out with a GED.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: Seuss]
    #13650993 -

Seuss said:
1) I would be careful taking anything from Gizmodo to be the truth when it comes to medical science.



This is old news being recycled. I heard about this about 2 years ago. My epidemiology professor spoke about the CCR5-Δ32 mutation when the news of this case first came out.

The CCR5-Δ32 mutation also infers immunity against 4 other diseases: smallpox, the plague, west nile virus, and a fourth that I can't recall.

It is a very useful gene mutation for humanity.


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Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species.

Looking for wild Panaeolus species prints. Msg me for trades.

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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: badchad]
    #13651690 -

badchad said:
In my opinion, an academic professor who has been in the field for decades and intricately studied numerous novel vaccines, is MUCH more qualified to understand the risk:benefit ratio of a new compound than a high school drop out with a GED.


Yes, but is he better qualified to decide for a given individual whether to participate in the study or take the drug/whatever?  There's a rather large difference between understanding the risks, which can be understood regardless of whether you deduced them yourself or were simply told of them, and being able to decide what those risks are.

People make those kinds of choices all the time- the major difference in this case is the uncertainty of the individual's reaction and the drug's effects being greater.  How anyone but the participant is supposed to better way the 'correctness' or justifiability of the individual's weighting of the various factors and final decision is beyond me.

But this is more an issue I have with medicine in general.  Far too paternalistic.  Unfortunately, I see more and more evidence of the war on drugs trying to ratchet that atmosphere up.

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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: Simms]
    #13651719 -

Unfortunately this treatment has a 30% mortality rate.  The only reason they did the treatment was because he had leukemia too.  If he just had AIDS, it wouldn't be worth the risk.

Plus not all HIV relies solely on the CCR5.  This might be a cure for M-tropic HIV, but T-tropic HIV uses the CXCR4, so a CCR5 δ-32 deletion wouldn't be very helpful.

We've still got a long way to go,  but this does look promising.

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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: BothHands]
    #13651777 -

BothHands said:
Unfortunately this treatment has a 30% mortality rate.  The only reason they did the treatment was because he had leukemia too.  If he just had AIDS, it wouldn't be worth the risk.

Plus not all HIV relies solely on the CCR5.  This might be a cure for M-tropic HIV, but T-tropic HIV uses the CXCR4, so a CCR5 δ-32 deletion wouldn't be very helpful.

We've still got a long way to go,  but this does look promising.


I suspect people with advanced AIDS, with a 100% mortality rate, wouldn't mind taking a 30% mortality risk.

Very nice read on the rest of your post.  Thank you.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Man cured from HIV? [Re: Seuss]
    #13651787 -

Well, there's a 30% chance to die on the spot, whereas antiretroviral treatment gives you quite a few years.  Not practical unless you're already on the verge of death.

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