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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Phred]
    #1493114 - 04/25/03 02:27 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Could be part of Activism?...I dunno. If anyone has a serious issue with the thread being in this forum I'll move it...


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Rono]
    #1493324 - 04/25/03 03:23 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Well if the HIV virus causing aids is a hoax, this would imply that there may be political motivation for the hoax.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Rono]
    #1493344 - 04/25/03 03:25 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

pinksharkmark: Good point, but I think wingnutx legitimized it a bit when he brought up Thabo Mbeki, President of the African National Congress and President of South
Africa. who is also a supporter of this theory, and this issue is ripe with other issues about the corruption of the scientific community. Science is no longer based on discovery anymore as much as it is based on gaining and maintaining funding.

Buddha5254: Some of the people who make this claim say that AIDS is not caused by a pathogen at all, and therefore is not a contageous disease. I don't think I really buy that, but not all HIV+ people experience any symptoms at all, and some people who are not HIV+ develop all the symptoms of AIDS. I think AIDS is caused by a pathogen, but the evidence that the HIV virus is the culprit, or at least the sole culprit, isn't strong enough for them to have stopped looking for other answers yet, which they seem to have done 20 years ago.

Rono: I felt that it belonged here as much as global warming, and ozone depletion threads. You can move it if you want to.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Evolving]
    #1493377 - 04/25/03 03:33 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

It would be difficult to deny the global sociopolitical implications of this. According to Mullis there is strong motivation not to investigate other possibilities since there is so much money riding on the accepted theory. If an African is diagnosed with TB, and is HIV+ he is said to have AIDS, if he is diagnosed with TB, and is not HIV+ then he just has TB. Much of the gross national product of the African countries may be going towards treating people for illnesses that they don't have.

Not to mention the leverage this gives us over these countries politically.


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Invisibleslime_R
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1493817 - 04/25/03 05:52 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Does it say anything about how the people that have AIDS and no HIV got it?

Very interesting, thank you.


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Invisibleseti
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? *DELETED* [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1494151 - 04/25/03 08:47 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by seti


Edited by seti (05/15/04 07:44 AM)


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InvisibleClosetCase
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: seti]
    #1495498 - 04/26/03 11:29 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Two words... Magic (Earvin) Johnson


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: ClosetCase]
    #1496085 - 04/26/03 04:34 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

How's he doing now?

Has he ever shown any symptoms?


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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1496102 - 04/26/03 04:44 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

This is from 2001: USATODAY.com - Ten years after 'it', Magic Johnson thriving

For those of you too lazy to RTFA, his doctors say that he is in excellent health and attribute that to the 'AIDS cocktail' of medication he has been taking.

This does lead to speculation that if he were not taking these medications maybe he still wouldn't get sick....

EDIT: Here's some more
Quote:

Today, Johnson shows no obvious effects of HIV, and there are few, if any, traces of the virus in his body. He credits his meticulous medical regimen and vigorous daily workouts.

''My health is wonderful,'' Johnson said in a recent CNN interview. ``The virus is laying asleep in my body.'' (Source)





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Edited by JssMthrFcknChrst (04/26/03 04:48 PM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1496115 - 04/26/03 04:52 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I'd like to see survival statistics for people with HIV who did recieve treatment, and those who did not.


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Anonymous

Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: wingnutx]
    #1510693 - 05/01/03 10:26 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

sounds like most of these guys have bought into the propaganda...I for one read the article and found it interesting...and rail gun just cause someone has an opinion about something dosen't mean hes gonna make himself a guinea pig


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Invisiblewingnutx

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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1512009 - 05/01/03 06:44 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

This is completely anecdotal, but I have 2 friends who have shown symptoms, and are now doing extremely well on antiviral cocktails.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: wingnutx]
    #1512281 - 05/01/03 08:04 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Did they both recieve the virus from the same source?


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Invisiblewingnutx

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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1513548 - 05/02/03 01:36 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I highly doubt it. Same city, though.


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OfflineUrQuattro
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: wingnutx]
    #1516730 - 05/03/03 03:46 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

gallo never proved conclusively that hiv caused aids. it is a retrovirus. there is not another retrovirus in existence that does anything CLOSE to what the claim regarding hiv -> aids is... it doesnt replicate fast enough to destroy the immune system, and normal illness can cause an extreme drop in the t cell count. if you notice, the actually number of t-cells required to be diagnosed as AIDS has dropped SIGNIFICANTLYover the past 15 years... that means that people that would have been aids in 1985 wouldnt be aids now...

on top of that, the hiv test can cause a false positive in about 50 different ways, including the flu, pregnancy, the hep b vaccine, famine etc etc.

antibodies to a virus means that your body successfully fought it off...

etc etc etc etc etc... there's some correlation, but there is no proven causation. the problem is that there is no more good science because it is impossible to get funding for a study into an alternative possibility for aids... so, any scientist who cares about his career at all is forced into studying hiv... it is a reallyfucked up situation...


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1524619 - 05/06/03 03:24 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Actually, that article is plain ol' retarded.

There is a hell of a lot more evidence than that that HIV causes AIDS, and if people weren't so fucking stupid they would actually spend the time to do some research.

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/evidhiv.htm

I expect more from you, Baby_Hitler, I thought you were intelligent.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1524633 - 05/06/03 03:32 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Something like 5% of people who contract HIV will never develop AIDS.

Tons of people die of AIDS when they don't take medications, so the accusation that the medications are causing AIDS are pretty ridiculous.

Some people have even made the claims that it's the use of Amyl Nitrates amongst the gay communities that are causing AIDS, which is pretty retarded because lots of people who have never even touched poppers have died of AIDS.

There haven't been any cases of AIDS in people without HIV, which is a pretty good indicator.

Oh yeah, and as for the medication causing AIDS, you'd have to implicate thousands of people in this study. Dozens of people worldwide who were involved in the studies that proved these medications were effective in the treatment of AIDS would have to be involved in this conspiracy. This would include people from private companies, government funded researchers, all kinds of folks, including some of my own family members. There is no conceivable way that a conspiracy like this could be pulled off.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Phluck]
    #1524636 - 05/06/03 03:33 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Here's another good link:

http://www.aidsmap.com/treatments/ixdata/english/57258654-2883-4b3d-93e2-1bd3a9c04c8e.htm


The problem with the AIDS deniers is, they don't seem to understand the science behind all this.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Phluck]
    #1525757 - 05/06/03 10:42 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I wasn't saying that the drugs are causing AIDs, just that maybe Magic Johnson is part of that 5% that won't develop AIDs despite his HIV.

Someone asked how Magic Johnson was doing, I posted a source for information reguarding that. I don't have enough data from this discussion to attempt making an empirical opinion reguarding the truth or fallacy of any statement made by others. Just trying to stimulate converstation.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Is the HIV virus a hoax? [Re: Phluck]
    #1525969 - 05/06/03 11:28 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I suppose Karry Mullis doesn't understand the science behind it either.


Karry Mullis: Nobel prize in biochemistry that he recieved for PCR (Polymerase Chain Reaction) , which, by the way, revolutionized molecular genetics.

Do either of us understand the science better than him?


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