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Anonymous

mushrooms legalized?
    #1325907 - 02/22/03 06:33 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

do you think that mushrooms will be legal in the US in our lifetime? it's pretty hard to predict so far ahead, and things change pretty fast... i think that maybe they will. it's certainly a possibility. i think cannabis will be real soon, and it's because the information about it (that it has medical value and causes little harm) is becoming more and more widespread. when herb is legalized, i think that will set the precedent that if an illegal drug can be shown to have medical value and cause little harm, it can be legalized. for some people, psilocybe mushrooms are the only medicine that relieves their cluster headaches, and mushrooms themselves, when used by someone with a little knowledge and respect, are safe. i dunno... it seems like a long shot... but i could see it happening.

maybe it won't even be for those reasons. maybe during our lifetimes, the government will aknowledge that the war on drugs was a huge mistake and recognize our freedom to choose what we put in our bodies. that'll be the day.

it's not so bad though. it's kind of fun, being a mushroom guerrilla, growing illegal mind expanding fungus in clandestine grow rooms... still'd be better if shit was legal.


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OfflineMeph
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Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: ]
    #1325918 - 02/22/03 06:41 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


maybe it won't even be for those reasons. maybe during our lifetimes, the government will aknowledge that the war on drugs was a huge mistake and recognize our freedom to choose what we put in our bodies. that'll be the day.





That would require the government to be open-minded. Which is something that will, in my humble opinion, never happen.

Governement and close-mindedness are the exact same thing.

I don't think we'll ever see it happenning. At least, not in the US.


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I'm a bipedal carbon-based pseudo-random number generator.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: Meph]
    #1325942 - 02/22/03 07:10 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I agree that the government tends to be pretty close-minded, but look at how far the civil rights movement has come in the past 50 years. Sure, we've still got a long way to go, but blacks and other minorities sure are a lot better off now than they were back then. I think the government's drug policy will gradually change as public opinion changes. Mind you, while more and more Americans have become opposed to the Drug War, there are still a lot of prohibitionists out there. Look at how badly the Nevada initiative to legalize pot was defeated. I'm sure as time goes by, more and more people will see the Drug War for the abomination it is. Then either they will elect politicians who are against the Drug War, or the politicians in power will sway to public opinion and end the Drug War(you'd be surprised what politicians will do to get re-elected).


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: ]
    #1326135 - 02/22/03 09:24 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Drugs can never be legal in the US for the simple reason that its all about power.

And BTW, the mushrooms are not illegal; only the active ingredients are. That puts shrooms in the same boat as San Pedro cacti.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (02/22/03 09:26 AM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1326145 - 02/22/03 09:31 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Annapurna1 writes:

And BTW, the mushrooms are not illegal; only the active ingredients are.

Incorrect, as the courts have repeatedly ruled. In the eyes of the courts, a mushroom containing psilocybin is legally equivalent to a glass of tea containing psilocybin, or a homemade brownie containing psilocybin. The container in which the psilocybin is packaged (be it packaged by nature or by man) is irrelevant to the US courts.

pinky


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Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: Phred]
    #1326183 - 02/22/03 10:02 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 writes:

And BTW, the mushrooms are not illegal; only the active ingredients are.

Incorrect, as the courts have repeatedly ruled. In the eyes of the courts, a mushroom containing psilocybin is legally equivalent to a glass of tea containing psilocybin, or a homemade brownie containing psilocybin. The container in which the psilocybin is packaged (be it packaged by nature or by man) is irrelevant to the US courts.

pinky




Mushrooms and other plants that contain controlled substances dont become illegal until their prepared for human consumption, unless the plant itself is specifically scheduled ("magic mushrooms" are not). In the case of mushrooms, "prepared for human consumption" may simply mean removing them from the substrate. In the case of the cacti, desmanthus illinoensis, morning glory, etc, "prepared for human consumption" is generally more complex (you may be prosecuted if you are caught with morning glory seeds in your mouth). However, all of these examples are technically illegal in that they contain controlled substances. How and when the laws are enforced depends on what the prosecuters believe to be the probability of illegal use, which is very high with mushrooms but very low in the other examples. In practice, psilocin-bearing mushrooms grow wild on many private properties with the full knowledge of the authorities; but the owners are not prosecuted so long as they dont attempt to harvest them.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (02/22/03 10:08 AM)


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1326197 - 02/22/03 10:14 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mushrooms and other plants that contain controlled substances dont become illegal until their prepared for human consumption, unless the plant itself is specifically scheduled ("magic mushrooms" are not).



This may hold true for federal laws but unfortunately many state laws are more stringent. In California, I would say Pinky's description is probably accurate. Oh, and preparation could be something as simple as picking a mushroom (in the eyes of the prosecutors, courts and armed agents of big brother).


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1326203 - 02/22/03 10:19 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Mushrooms and other plants that contain controlled substances dont become illegal until their prepared for human consumption, unless the plant itself is specifically scheduled ("magic mushrooms" are not).

do you live in the united states? something tells me that you're basing that assumption on hearsay. as pinkshark stated, courts have ruled that anything containing an illicit substance is itself an illicit substance. the 'container' does not matter. of course, san pedro cacti are legal, as are opium poppies, as long as these are not prepared in any way. the reason for this is the rather arbitrary distinction of these plants as being decorative (we don't want the drug war to bother any old ladies now, do we?). technically, they should be illegal... 

in the UK, the situation with mushrooms that you described is correct. here in the US, living, growing mushrooms are very much illegal. if you want to test it out, call up your local police department and ask them if they'd care to have a look at your legal decorative cubensis casing. as they haul you off, you can tell them about how you heard from a friend that it was ok to grow them as long as they're not dried or prepared....  :tongue:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: Evolving]
    #1326231 - 02/22/03 10:36 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

This may hold true for federal laws but unfortunately many state laws are more stringent. In California, I would say Pinky's description is probably accurate.



That's sadly true. I think this is actually the only state where spores are illegal.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: ]
    #1326234 - 02/22/03 10:38 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

in the UK, the situation with mushrooms that you described is correct. here in the US, living, growing mushrooms are very much illegal. if you want to test it out, call up your local police department and ask them if they'd care to have a look at your legal decorative cubensis casing. as they haul you off, you can tell them about how you heard from a friend that it was ok to grow them as long as they're not dried or prepared....




I would agree that deliberately growing mushrooms indoors is a form of "preparing for human consumption". However, if their growing outdoors, then it becomes questionable. Before 9/11, the prosecutors would have had to prove that outdoor mushrooms were being deliberately cultivated for human consumption. After 9/11, whatever legal rights you had are null and void.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (02/22/03 10:53 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1326336 - 02/22/03 11:42 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

CA and GA have outlawed spores.


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InvisibleXibalba
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Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: ]
    #1327156 - 02/22/03 08:08 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

If the fall of the American Empire and the violent replacement of our federal government happen within our lifetime- yes.

Otherwise, no.

Here's what I think's going to happen.

I expect in the next few years a bill will pass to make all hallucinogens illegal, naming every known psychoactive chemical by name and with an open clause preemptively scheduling all those not yet discovered. A stronger version of the Analog Act, effectively meaning you will only be able to buy "research chemicals" with a DEA license. The list of "watched chemicals" will be greatly expanded.
All DMT containing/ ayahuasca plants will become illegal to import or cultivate.
Existing (ornamental) San Pedro cacti will fall under a grandfather clause but seeds and cuttings will become illegal to sell.
DXM will be Schedule II or III- meaning the pure chemical will only be available to licensed pharmaceutical companies, and cough medicine containing it will be required to contain other drugs.
The peyote exception for the Native American Church will remain.

Federally mandated minimum sentencing will be created for marijuana offences, overriding states with more relaxed marijuana laws ( like California. ) This will probably mean not prison time but long (10 years) probation periods and periodic hair testing.
Sale of drug paraphenalia (including all blown glass pipes) will be banned.
Certain hydroponic and lighting supplies will require a photo ID and a credit check, and will be reported to the government as "suspicious."

All employers will be federally required to drug test...


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OfflinePhred
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Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1327348 - 02/22/03 09:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Annapurna1 writes:

However, if their growing outdoors, then it becomes questionable.

It may be questionable to you, but not to the Feds. US federal law makes no distinction between those growing outdoors and those growing indoors, just as they make no distinction between cannabis plants growing indoors or outdoors.

Before 9/11, the prosecutors would have had to prove that outdoor mushrooms were being deliberately cultivated for human consumption.

Incorrect. Two years ago, if they grabbed you walking out of a pasture in Texas with a bagful of Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms you found growing wild, you were in trouble. The same is true today.

pinky


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: Phred]
    #1328062 - 02/23/03 06:40 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 writes:

However, if their growing outdoors, then it becomes questionable.

It may be questionable to you, but not to the Feds. US federal law makes no distinction between those growing outdoors and those growing indoors, just as they make no distinction between cannabis plants growing indoors or outdoors.

Before 9/11, the prosecutors would have had to prove that outdoor mushrooms were being deliberately cultivated for human consumption.

Incorrect. Two years ago, if they grabbed you walking out of a pasture in Texas with a bagful of Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms you found growing wild, you were in trouble. The same is true today.

pinky




If you picked the mushrooms and put them in a bag, then thats intent for human consumption. If you leave them in the ground, then its questionable. In reality, there are many mushrooms growing on private properties with the full knowledge of the DEA. It is impossible not to have psilocin growing on a cattle ranch. Cannabis, OTOH, is specifically scheduled, so there is never any issue about whether a cannabis plant is intended for human consumption. But mushrooms are not specifically scheduled, so if they are growing outdoors and still in the ground, then the govt must prove that their not there by accident. However, i would agree that its different after 9/11.

And BTW, Xibalba, i dont have much information about the legal status of San Pedro, morning glory seeds, Ayahuasca, etc. It may be that their all illegal but not enforced; or else that they dont become illegal unless theres a clear intent to use as a drug. If its the former, then we may be about to witness a wave of police state terrorism unseen before in human history. And that would certainly be a convenient way for the Bush elites to finance their expansionist agenda too.

I would also argue that given Bushs' initiative to bypass the legal system altogether via "enemy combatant" status, legality is no longer a relevant concept. Whether you eat the mushrooms or not, you are still subject to arbitrary arrest and imprisonment, largely to serve economic interests. It is impossible to be a "law-abiding citizen" when the law says you have no rights.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (02/23/03 07:56 AM)


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: Xibalba]
    #1329434 - 02/23/03 07:19 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

The peyote exception for the Native American Church will remain.

Ah yes, but actually you have to be something like at least 1/4 native american by blood to join, so eventually the church will be bred out of existence!

I think that in Canada the key for decriminalizing drugs will be through the courts. I think it's going to happen this summer in Canada through the supreme court, and eventually someone may make a strong bid to classify mushroom use as being religious.

On erowid I read that in a (i think it's called) preliminary injunction the court ruled that the prosecutors had to prove that an american ayahuasca church's use of ayahuasca was somehow a threat to society to prosecute DMT containing tea. That's a good first court battle, and we'll see what happens in the future.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1329544 - 02/23/03 07:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I think that in Canada the key for decriminalizing drugs will be through the courts. I think it's going to happen this summer in Canada through the supreme court, and eventually someone may make a strong bid to classify mushroom use as being religious.




Countries like Canada only exist as long as the US allows them to. Such an action on the part of the Canadian govt. may well bring about the long-rumoured annexation.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineBowlKiller
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Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1330360 - 02/24/03 04:38 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

annexation - that's funny, sad, and true.

I also think that total domination in America is in our future. DNA databases, biometrics, national ID cards, total information awareness acts, etc. are going to make sure that you don't do anything "not legal"

All of this really forces me to ask, "Who is supposed to protect us from corruption in the government?" Shouldnt there be some people who can put a stop to the destruction of the constitution?? I really dont get it.

I can't understand any arguement that says shrooms should not be legal, while liquor is legal. And now the mutha fuckers are trying to make Salvia not legal. Shit when will it end?

I think someone said it in this thread and it is so true. It is really fucked up when its impossible to be a law abiding citizen when there are so many bullshit laws, you can be found to be breaking a law at any given time.

Sometimes I watch that show COPS, and I apply my understanding of the legal system to what I see. And so many times it seems like the cops flat out break the law on that show to get someone arrested. Now I know that we need a police force, or else bedlam would break out, I understand that. But the shit goes to far.

And another thing, maybe someone can help me out here, Where can a person even find out what the laws are?!? I am talking about you know all kinds of laws. Is there something on the net where you can type up a search and find out laws? Cause I didnt know that it was a law that if you are riding a bike at night you have to have a headlamp on it, just like you do for a car. But apparently if a cop sees you riding your bike and it nighttime then guess who is getting a ticket? I knew about the fact that you had to have reflectors. But that is just a small example. Where do you even find out what the law is so that you can be a law abiding citizen?

I hope shrooms are made legal. I hope that pot is made legal. With the sweeping powers presently being enacted, and the total destruction of the constitution and bill of rights, I dont see how that will ever happen.


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Re: mushrooms legalized? [Re: BowlKiller]
    #1330514 - 02/24/03 05:43 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Like i said above, "legality" becomes irrelevant when you have no rights under the law. Fortunately, however, the US constitution contains a contingency against internal usurption by a fascist party:

Quote:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.




But the majority of the US population appears to be solidly sold on the radical right agenda, including many of its victims. And i dont think its just the media either.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (02/24/03 05:48 AM)


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