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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Are all religious conclusions inadequate ?
    #13128277 -

All the religions of the world are based on the direct, first-hand experience of GOD by individuals. These prominent people Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed and so on, had personal subjective experiences which we cannot prove or disprove. My question is this, Does trying to disseminate and make defining statements about these experiences immediately devalue the importance of the personal first-hand experience and any insight gained ? My opinion is that you can put down institutional religions all day, but the sources of these religions and the first-hand experience of GOD, may be subjective, but so are so many other things that we still credit as valuable, and I think that it is in communicating the experience that the significance is lost.


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The arrogant cat stalks the humble mouse, the self important dog chases away the cat and is in turn unable to stand it's ground against the Proud lion. Then the lion is almost trampled underfoot of the enlightened elephant, who surprisingly and paradoxically yields to the humble mouse.

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Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: Brainstem]
    #13128367 -

Does trying to disseminate and make defining statements about these experiences immediately devalue the importance of the personal first-hand experience and any insight gained

Yes!


Now will all the true believers STFU.:satansmoking:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: Brainstem]
    #13128494 -

It is so fucking bizarre not only do people pretend to believe religions, but they completely fail to understand the implications of that belief.

That is, most christians belief this incredible story about jesus and on and on but have spent hardly any time trying to understand what it means. Stupid dull minds, believing an awesome fantastic story, concerned with their bald spot and finger nail polish...

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Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: Freedom]
    #13128575 -

what would you rather they believe in?


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dripping with fantasy

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Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: quinn]
    #13128592 -

personal ethics.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: Freedom]
    #13128615 -

well my point is that they don't even understand what their belief means, or don't really care.

but it would be cool if people believed in reality instead of fantasy :lol:

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Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: quinn]
    #13128632 -

personal ethics, someone elses ethics... :shrug:

reality sucks...


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dripping with fantasy

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Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: Freedom]
    #13128646 -

And what is your definition of reality oh, purveyor of liberty ?


--------------------
The arrogant cat stalks the humble mouse, the self important dog chases away the cat and is in turn unable to stand it's ground against the Proud lion. Then the lion is almost trampled underfoot of the enlightened elephant, who surprisingly and paradoxically yields to the humble mouse.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: Brainstem]
    #13128714 -

that which isn't fantasy :wink:

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Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: Freedom]
    #13128724 -

Same question, but insert fantasy for reality.  :wink::wink:


--------------------
The arrogant cat stalks the humble mouse, the self important dog chases away the cat and is in turn unable to stand it's ground against the Proud lion. Then the lion is almost trampled underfoot of the enlightened elephant, who surprisingly and paradoxically yields to the humble mouse.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: Brainstem]
    #13128732 -

fantasy is imagination, driven by fear and desire

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Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: Freedom]
    #13128766 -

so's 'reality' (whatever that is)...


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dripping with fantasy

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Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: Freedom]
    #13128792 -

Why fear and desire ? Is this Buddha talking ? What are these two driving factors really ?
Could it be that, that which we like, enjoy and value, we desire and that which we do not like, do not enjoy or value, we fear ? If this is true, then do we not need to experience reality in order to fear or desire ?


--------------------
The arrogant cat stalks the humble mouse, the self important dog chases away the cat and is in turn unable to stand it's ground against the Proud lion. Then the lion is almost trampled underfoot of the enlightened elephant, who surprisingly and paradoxically yields to the humble mouse.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: Brainstem]
    #13128808 -

sensaton is driven by receptors, and put together into perception.

I think there is perception that is not influenced by fear and desire.

Higher order analysis (interpretation of perception) becomes more easily prone to influence. Still, some things are quite obviously fantasy, to an absurd extent.


Brainstem said:
Why fear and desire ? Is this Buddha talking ? What are these two driving factors really ?
Could it be that, that which we like, enjoy and value, we desire and that which we do not like, do not enjoy or value, we fear ? If this is true, then do we not need to experience reality in order to fear or desire ?


Fear and desire really are two sides of the same coin. They greatly influence our interpretation of reality.

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Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: Freedom]
    #13128854 -

quinn said:
personal ethics, someone elses ethics... :shrug:

reality sucks...



lol, u can't have personal ethics without somebody elses ethics, since everyone elses beliefs/opinions play a role in the transformation of your own beliefs and opinions.



I don't think it sucks, I think it's interesting.

Freedom said:
fantasy is imagination, driven by fear and desire


fantasy can also bring hope, inspiration and wonder.

It's what drives humans for either bad or good.

With no imagination there would be no innovation.


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Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: Freedom]
    #13128861 -

I think absurdity is a better way to describe extreme terminal fantasy.



sensaton is driven by receptors, and put together into perception.

I think there is perception that is not influenced by fear and desire.

Higher order analysis (interpretation of perception) becomes more easily prone to influence. Still, some things are quite obviously fantasy, to an absurd extent.


What part of our perception is free from desire and fear ? Is it the apathetic side, neither acting on the stimulus of either ?


--------------------
The arrogant cat stalks the humble mouse, the self important dog chases away the cat and is in turn unable to stand it's ground against the Proud lion. Then the lion is almost trampled underfoot of the enlightened elephant, who surprisingly and paradoxically yields to the humble mouse.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: Freedom]
    #13128885 -

i feel ill...
i don't want to argue with you. i don't want to 'be that guy' who says 'there is no reality'... we have much to many 'subjectivity' threads as there is... sigh.

I dunno.

well...

i guess my only point will be this
'reality' as you understand it is something that can be measured objectively.
math is the only thing that is objective.
reality is made out of math.

'reality' is certain beliefs about maths, and inductive reasoning from math.
it is good for achieving goals.

it is less good for fulfilling human life, i think. or maybe, no more good than anything else.

I do not think anyone lives or can live in reality, without imagination/irrational unexamined beliefs...

that sounds somewhat boring...


--------------------
dripping with fantasy

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Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: quinn]
    #13128897 -

While there may be a reality we aren't capable of knowing it for certain.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: quinn]
    #13128911 -

I think the first instant of perception is 'pure'. But the second instant the perception becomes associated with memory. Most memory is colored by good and bad, desire and fear. Pushes the mind stream around...


quinn said:
i feel ill...
i don't want to argue with you. i don't want to 'be that guy' who says 'there is no reality'... we have much to many 'subjectivity' threads as there is... sigh.

I dunno.

well...

i guess my only point will be this
'reality' as you understand it is something that can be measured objectively.
math is the only thing that is objective.
reality is made out of math.

'reality' is certain beliefs about maths, and inductive reasoning from math.
it is good for achieving goals.

it is less good for fulfilling human life, i think. or maybe, no more good than anything else.

I do not think anyone lives or can live in reality, without imagination/irrational unexamined beliefs...

that sounds somewhat boring...



I'm not talking about objective reality, I'm talking about subjective reality :smile:

What I mean is that there is perception, and this is reality. Illogical conclusions from that perception is fantasy. See what I mean? I don't think you have to get into subjective vs. objective, what I'm calling 'fantasy' fails in both subjective world and objective world, unless you actually see god or whatever. But most christians don't claim to see god, or hear god. They just interpret weird shit as signs from god and miracles and they do this illogically.

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Re: Are all religious conclusions inadequate ? [Re: I AM SWIM]
    #13128980 -

i feel somewhat confused now...

my brain is not functioning.

i tried to write a reply.

but my brain is not functioning.

so i'm going to bed.
I hope that it will either be functioning better tomorrow or that someone else replies.

g'nite


--------------------
dripping with fantasy

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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