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The vegan way of life is not sustainable.
    #13090535 -

I have been visiting organic/permaculture farms recently and have come to the realization that it is definitely impossible to farm organizally without the aid of animals. Animals provide manure which is the only way to fertilize the extensive veggetable and grain fields nessecary to feed a vegan and secondly farm animals proide physical force that otherwise could not possibly be exterted by an ordinary human attempting to feed themselves a vegan lifestyle. That is without starving due to not having the amount of caloric intake nessecary for the work that would be nessecary without the animal.

The only reason a vegan exists is because of the privelidged existence in this society and its use of fossil fuels, which like a vegan is not sustainable.

This argument is why in india there hardly exists vegans on farms that do not use fertilizer made from natural gas or potash.

Just something I concluded after visiting the last farm, of which has eggs and dairy as a part of their diet but also fish and seafood.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


Edited by AlphaFalfa (08/23/10 05:17 PM)

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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13090550 -

AlphaFalfa said:
I have been visiting organic farms recently and have come to the realization that it is definitely impossible to farm organizally without the aid of animals. Animals provide manure which is the only way to fertilize the extensive veggetable and grain fields nessecary to feed a vegan and secondly farm animals proide physical force that otherwise could not possibly be exterted by an ordinary human attempting to feed themselves a vegan lifestyle. That is without starving due to not having the amount of caloric intake nessecary for the work that would be nessecary without the animal.

The only reason a vegan exists is because of the privelidged existence in this society and its use of fossil fuels, which like a vegan is not sustainable.

This argument is why in india there hardly exists vegans on farms that do not use fertilizer made from natural gas or potash.

Just something I concluded after visiting the last farm, of which has eggs and dairy as a part of their diet but also fish and seafood.



Take off you clothes and go to the jungle and eat bananas all day.:thumbup: You'll be fine.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. [Re: Icelander]
    #13090632 -

I was thinking along the lines of - EAT SHIT AND DIE, then Re-incarnate Bhudda style and EAT my decomposing flesh starting with YOUR CACK.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13090816 -

What's a CACK. ?:crazy2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13090901 -

what about inorganic vegans?

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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. [Re: Freedom]
    #13090942 -

Who's to say that having animals isnt sustainable?

Also diesel engine tractors and other farm equipment using biodiesel grown from your own fields is also sustainable...

seems you are not very well versed in the subject of sustainability, nor am i for that matter.


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I wish to become enlightened, to know bliss, to be a pure expression of joy, to slake my insatiable thirst.

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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. *DELETED* [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13091035 -

Post deleted by cesarmd7

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. [Re: cesarmd7]
    #13091067 -

All the farms I visited practiced permaculture, I already know all it encompasses. I have even practiced some of its principles (Weeding with your hands, making chickens feed off of the pests in a garden, particularly catepillars, etc)

This is what I base my claim on, actually should of replaced organic to permacutlure.

Cheers


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. [Re: cesarmd7]
    #13091071 -

If you like permacutlure, you'll love to research a guy named Sepp Holzer.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. *DELETED* [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13091103 -

Post deleted by cesarmd7

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. [Re: cesarmd7]
    #13091136 -

No sorry, but what you talk about is not possible. This type of permaculture you talk about( coined food forest by some aussi who lives in the topics) is not feasable for people in temperate climates and those mini-ecosystems in temperate climates you talk about still need fertilizer from animal dung. I have spoken and visited many farms, many of which utilize their own feces and pee to fertilize their gardens, and the whoole mini ecosystem idea does not work and has not worked for them. It MAY work for CERTAIN types of crops, but the majority of the chosen staple crops for these people is not feasbly grown, especially in temperate climates from that method alone. Permaculture, is more wide spread than food forests, it encompasses making the inputs on a farm, come from the farm itself or its immidiate ecosystems, not nessecarily setting up min-ecosystems that eventually need no inputs.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. *DELETED* [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13091265 -

Post deleted by cesarmd7

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. [Re: cesarmd7] * 1
    #13091301 -

Show me someone who has done it successfully in a temperate region.

Your definition of permaculture is correct - however, your definition of ecosystem is incomplete. An ecosystem can encompass any land mass, including those used to propogate species of animals that are beneficial to that land mass, as a whole, such as chicken coups, pastures, etc.

I have talked with people who do self-sustainable living and you are incorrect to assume that you can create such a system and meet all the daily caloric needs you require. Maybe once you get out therem you will see what I am talking about.


Google

WWOOF

An organization that connects you to people living and/or attempting to be living in a self sustainable way. From my experience, they say that permaculture makes sense, but the whole food forest mini ecosystem that prioduces food and takes care of itself, is a fantasy when it comes to growing the staples that they need to survive through the winter.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13091893 -

I love it when hippie farmers fight.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. [Re: Icelander]
    #13091934 -

:popcorn: (organic - of course!)


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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. *DELETED* [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #13092027 -

Post deleted by cesarmd7

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. [Re: cesarmd7]
    #13092085 -

I went to an alternative college back in the mid 70s and majored in Small scale organic farming. Seriously. I spent some time on farms and realized what a fuck job it could be and became a life long gardener instead.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. [Re: Icelander]
    #13094334 -

starving is the way. some punjabi gurus apparently can live with it :eek: crazy


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:mushroom2: Agar contams poll ! Cast your vote! :mspoil:

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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. [Re: cc2]
    #13094376 -

Clearly the best way to live life is as an ascetic.:rolleyes:


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I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund

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Re: The vegan way of life is not sustainable. [Re: Icelander]
    #13097026 -

Icelander said:
I love it when hippie farmers fight.:satansmoking:


LOL - if you call extensive research and education on the food system and various forms of alternative food systems, something a hippie does, then we are all doomed because most of us are not hippies. Shockingly this is true and because of that....well, lets just say that those who understand the way the food system works and prepare for its shortcomings, hippie or not, will be better off than those who stay ignorant.

i suggest you sit here and learn instead of moaning about your self importance indirectly through insulting people.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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