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OfflineThe_Hobbit
Bilbo Baggins
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Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,382
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Vegetarians and Vegans
    #5752381 - 06/15/06 07:01 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

My friend is a vegetarian. We were in the city one night and we came across this dude who studied under a yogi who taught that eating meat turns you into an animal, which would close your third eye and stop you from experiencing other planes of existence. This dude said that man, 5,000 years ago, did not ever eat meat.

I had 2 beefs with his argument. First of all, I do not think that men from 5,000 years ago were all vegetarians. That's an assumption, but I feel confident making it. My other argument centered around the nature of food. What you eat is or was alive at one point, whether it's a plant or animal. He said that plants and animals are not the same because one has intellegence and the other not. My friend agreed, except his reasoning was that plants don't have a central nervous system. My argument is that it theoretically doesn't matter if you're intellegent or not. If you beleive that people and plants are spiritual in nature, then that spirit is the lowest common denominator. You are killing another living, spiritual thing in order to sustain yourself.

I'm curious about other people's opinions, including theories along the same lines as what this guy was talking about. I always figured that being a vegetarian was simply done in order to be physically healthy. Obviously, some people, including Krishnamurti, think otherwise.

I appreciate the fact that you're reading this. =)


--------------------
Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.


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Offlinefresh313
journeyman
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Registered: 09/02/03
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Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: The_Hobbit]
    #5752408 - 06/15/06 07:33 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

i think the theory is
when an animal is killed
there are hormones and chemicals released from the brain into the muscle and tissues. and when u eat the meat u also get the chemicals of another animal, and i think therye similar enough to effect a human.


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OfflineYthanA
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
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Registered: 08/08/97
Posts: 18,080
Loc: NY/MA/VT Borderlands Flag
Last seen: 7 hours, 38 minutes
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: The_Hobbit]
    #5752539 - 06/15/06 09:08 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

There are plenty of good reasons to be a vegetarian or vegan but that guy didn't touch on any of them.


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InvisibleMezcal
Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 1,980
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: Ythan]
    #5752554 - 06/15/06 09:14 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ythan said:
There are plenty of good reasons to be a vegetarian or vegan but that guy didn't touch on any of them.



:thumbup:


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 4 months, 24 days
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: Mezcal]
    #5752608 - 06/15/06 09:37 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

> This dude said that man, 5,000 years ago, did not ever eat meat.

This dude was wrong. A quick study of the human digestive system will prove beyond any doubt that we are designed to eat meat. Everything from the shape of our teeth to the form of the digestive track itself is geared to digest meat. Read "designed" as either through nature or through creation, doesn't matter. This being said, we do not have to have meat to survive.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: Ythan]
    #5752618 - 06/15/06 09:40 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ythan said:
There are plenty of good reasons to be a vegetarian or vegan but that guy didn't touch on any of them.



:yesnod:


--------------------


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,229
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: fresh313]
    #5752623 - 06/15/06 09:42 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Thats why i beleave Kobie beef is vastly superior to most anyother meat, They get massages and listen to classical music and fed beer.

I am not swinging right or left with my diet. I just try to keep a balance of good healthy unprocessed foods. Lots of whole foods, grains, and raw veggies and fruits.


This is my point of view on the meat industry here from my jurnal.
"I was thinking about some things about meat as of late. This is what i was thinking.....

Industrial farming raises animals in unatural unhappy ways.
Pigs raised on metal grates unable to wallow in mud or root around for food packed to tight to get exercise. Living in the fumes of their shit rising up from the holding tanks below their metal floors.

Chickens that grow at such high speeds they are mature by the 28th day. So fat that they cant stand up. Beeks burnt so that they arnt sharp enough to inflect wounds on each other. Sitting on a wire floor with the only happyness they get is threw eating food constantly.

Cows on small properties caraled and led threw gates, pened up leading them to get their nuts choped off. Being beat and kicked and proded along the way to ensure a fast moving line.

All along the way these animals are shown no love, no respect no mercy. Raised with hate and greed. The only thing the people that raise them see is money.

Now do you see a corespondence between the way we treat the animals and the products we consume from these animals reflecting in how we are and act as human beings today? I do.

Kobe beef, the best beef you can get... The Japanese respect the animals. The cattle listen to classical music from day one, getting massaged daily and feed beer. This cattle live happy and die happy. The result is the healthies most velvety meat you can get. It has the highest amount of monosaturated fats out of all beef. Why because they were healthy and happy.

http://members.tripod.com/~BayGourmet/carnivore.html "


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #5752644 - 06/15/06 09:51 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Corporal Kielbasa said:
Thats why i beleave Kobie beef is vastly superior to most anyother meat, They get massages and listen to classical music and fed beer.

I am not swinging right or left with my diet. I just try to keep a balance of good healthy unprocessed foods. Lots of whole foods, grains, and raw veggies and fruits.


This is my point of view on the meat industry here from my jurnal.
"I was thinking about some things about meat as of late. This is what i was thinking.....

Industrial farming raises animals in unatural unhappy ways.
Pigs raised on metal grates unable to wallow in mud or root around for food packed to tight to get exercise. Living in the fumes of their shit rising up from the holding tanks below their metal floors.

Chickens that grow at such high speeds they are mature by the 28th day. So fat that they cant stand up. Beeks burnt so that they arnt sharp enough to inflect wounds on each other. Sitting on a wire floor with the only happyness they get is threw eating food constantly.

Cows on small properties caraled and led threw gates, pened up leading them to get their nuts choped off. Being beat and kicked and proded along the way to ensure a fast moving line.

All along the way these animals are shown no love, no respect no mercy. Raised with hate and greed. The only thing the people that raise them see is money.

Now do you see a corespondence between the way we treat the animals and the products we consume from these animals reflecting in how we are and act as human beings today? I do.

Kobe beef, the best beef you can get... The Japanese respect the animals. The cattle listen to classical music from day one, getting massaged daily and feed beer. This cattle live happy and die happy. The result is the healthies most velvety meat you can get. It has the highest amount of monosaturated fats out of all beef. Why because they were healthy and happy.

http://members.tripod.com/~BayGourmet/carnivore.html "




exactly.

I can't help but partially agree with this yogi. The suffering these animals undergo is inexcusable. To
1) knowingly support
2) GLUTTONOUSLY FEAST OFF THEIR SUFFERING is bad karma.

Mad cow disease is bullshit..... we live in the internet age and people are still so stupid as to feed cows to other cows? That is just sick.

animals are sentient and plants are not. it is therefore not morally quesiotnable to eat a plant, although plant life should be respected too.

if we harvested animals that died naturally, or if we treated them with the utmost peace, respect, humility, and love, and killed them instantaneously (though still problematic to me) in the most comfortable and relaxing environment.... then meat eating wouldn't be so bad.

if you sit there and gorge yourself on meat (and I did this for years) you are responsible for the suffering of hundreds to thousands of sentent beings. Beings that you would probably cry if you understood their suffering, but you choose not to think about it.

well.

it's your diet ultimately you need to decide. for me it's not health so much entirely as it is just morals.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,229
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: leery11]
    #5752648 - 06/15/06 09:52 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Ted Nugget is one of my Idols. He knows whats up when it comes to eating, hunting, and the way life works.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #5752818 - 06/15/06 10:59 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

In my next life I want to be a Kobe cow who dies naturally. I would have said any cow in India but the beer and massages and classical music sound even nicer than mass worship.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: Ythan]
    #5752902 - 06/15/06 11:40 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ythan said:
There are plenty of good reasons to be a vegetarian or vegan but that guy didn't touch on any of them.




Please share! :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: leery11]
    #5752906 - 06/15/06 11:43 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Right on leary. Torture farmed meat is the shame of humanity IMO (among others). We claim compassion and awareness but it's just a lie for most folks.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineYthanA
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
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Registered: 08/08/97
Posts: 18,080
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Last seen: 7 hours, 38 minutes
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: Icelander]
    #5752917 - 06/15/06 11:47 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Inhumane living conditions, toxic runoff and inefficient use of resources come to mind...


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OfflineSchwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 845
Last seen: 15 years, 28 days
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: Ythan]
    #5752921 - 06/15/06 11:49 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:
Ythan said:
There are plenty of good reasons to be a vegetarian or vegan but that guy didn't touch on any of them.

yes please do share your thought


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,229
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: Icelander]
    #5753208 - 06/15/06 01:18 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

pound for pound one can get more protein growing mushrooms then by raising beef. So when one wants to gain energy by expending less enrgey in creating energy cultivating mushrooms is a way better alternative.


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #5753227 - 06/15/06 01:21 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

what kinda mushrooms, i'm sure the trippy kinds have protein but well...


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,229
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: leery11]
    #5753243 - 06/15/06 01:24 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

probably most firm bodied mushrooms. But gimme a sec i will look into it.


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #5753253 - 06/15/06 01:26 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I know I don't like the taste of portabellos. I've heard shiitakes have kind of a meaty taste to them. If that's the case, then I think I might possibly go veg by switching to them for a while.


--------------------


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,229
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: Silversoul]
    #5753329 - 06/15/06 01:50 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

there are better meat alternative mushrooms out there. Like maitake and chicken of the woods for instance.





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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Vegetarians and Vegans [Re: Ythan]
    #5753393 - 06/15/06 02:14 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ythan said:
Inhumane living conditions, toxic runoff and inefficient use of resources come to mind...




Those are enough for me.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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