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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
Re: Morality of Veganism within a limited context [Re: Aedan]
    #18656550 - 08/03/13 10:49 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Well I think meat consumption should be cut lower than half, but don't view it as a possibility. We can't even educate people not to go to war

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OfflineAedan
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Registered: 05/06/11
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Re: Morality of Veganism within a limited context [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18656617 - 08/03/13 11:00 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

It's because people don't talk about it. They even avoid the issue. People don't question whether or not they eat too much meat or if its even necessary to eat meat at all. That's why things don't change. People hear of the preachy vegan and immediately shut off any possibility for a logical discussion. But I'm optimistic that things can change.

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OfflineAedan
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Re: Morality of Veganism within a limited context [Re: Aedan]
    #18656910 - 08/04/13 12:32 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

To get back to the question of plants vs animals and how it relates to hinduism..

I would consider myself a follower of Hindu philosophy. I've read the Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads, and the Dhammapada. I've listened to my share of Ram Dass and Alan Watts lectures.

We eat plants because we have to. If we don't we die and that's not an option because we are alive. Our food is basically a sacrifice given to us by God so we can live. Plants can give us everything we need to survive. Add to that dairy. Hindus worship the cow because it magically turned grass into rich creamy substance. Edible mushrooms are also nutritious.

People have eaten meat for thousands of years for one reason. To survive. With the advent of agriculture it became obsolete. Therefore eating meat became a choice. The motive to kill an animal changed.

The point is to not kill something you don't have to. I mentioned plants having no brain or nervous system as a modern example to the difference between plants and animals. The more superficial differences are that animals have personalities and we can relate to them. We can see they experience pain and suffering. No sane person would question whether another person was conscious. In the same way people shouldn't question whether animals are conscious.

But we can question whether plants are conscious. I believe they are to a certain extent. But they are practically asleep. They respond to distress but they don't feel pain or suffer because they don't have a brain. They're not cognisant.

Edited by Aedan (08/04/13 12:34 AM)

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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Morality of Veganism within a limited context [Re: Aedan]
    #18657136 - 08/04/13 01:49 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Nothing to add for the moment

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Morality of Veganism within a limited context [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18657328 - 08/04/13 03:53 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

A skeptical attitude has the potential to accomplish much more in my opinion, it allows you to side step futile endeavors and pick a fight which can be won.

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Morality of Veganism within a limited context [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18657346 - 08/04/13 04:17 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I see it as a continuum of suffering ranging from fruits that fall off a tree to factory farming cattle :puke:  Causing some suffering seems unavoidable, but I prefer to make as little impact as possible as it makes sense to me.  It has less to do with concern over what's proper behavior, and more to do with my sensitivity for suffering as I perceive it.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Registered: 11/15/12
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Re: Morality of Veganism within a limited context [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18657370 - 08/04/13 04:46 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

After making this thread I'm considering making the switch myself, its difficult for me to reason out why I eat meat

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Morality of Veganism within a limited context [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18657441 - 08/04/13 05:44 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
I see it as a continuum of suffering ranging from fruits that fall off a tree to factory farming cattle :puke:  Causing some suffering seems unavoidable, but I prefer to make as little impact as possible as it makes sense to me.  It has less to do with concern over what's proper behavior, and more to do with my sensitivity for suffering as I perceive it.



:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineNetDiver
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Registered: 08/24/09
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Re: Morality of Veganism within a limited context [Re: deCypher]
    #18658370 - 08/04/13 11:33 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
:lol:  I repeat: my choosing not to eat meat will not stop the suffering of any animals.  Until you can show me how this sentence is false, I'd recommend ungluing your palm from your face... vision must be difficult.



Okay, by providing factory farms with money, you give them the resources to expand their facilities, breed more animals, thus leading to animal suffering.

Think about the combined cost of every meat product you've ever purchased in your life. How much money is it? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Certainly enough to pay for new chicken coops, new pigpens, more animal feed... more ways of bringing animals into the world to suffer.

I don't see how you can honestly believe you're not supporting animal suffering by buying meat products.


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Morality of Veganism within a limited context [Re: NetDiver]
    #18658528 - 08/04/13 12:12 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞
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Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
Re: Morality of Veganism within a limited context [Re: NetDiver]
    #18658560 - 08/04/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Not all meat harvesting is ethically wrong in my opinion.

In fact, some methods and reasons for harvesting meat are actually for the sake of the environment.

Such as when ruminant populations explode due to the removal or just non-presence of the predator that came to fill the niche that kept them in check.
Often times when ruminants become over abundant, they, like ourselves cause excess damage to ecosystems and end up spreading disease among themselves.
This is undoubtedly increasing suffering, not just for the themselves but the other life forms whose worlds their messing up.

Departments of fish and wildlife will increase or decrease bag limits on animals due to the population estimates they make.
It is also not uncommon for this to fail which results in having to send out teams to cull the population.

IME, this meat, if not sick, is often prepped and donated to food banks and homeless shelters.

I'm personally in the practice of hunting and eating invasive or over-abundant species.
Right now, is the season of the bullfrog in Oregon.
Highly destructive and non-native. Taste good too.



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To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.

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