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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: dna? [Re: Swami]
    #1262509 -

Quote:
To confuse our perspective with ultimate reality, seems naive at best and at worst, major conclusion-jumping.




Please reread the "Be nice" policy as it applies to all.

Ditto


Edited by Mr_Mushrooms (01/30/03 03:06 PM)

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Re: dna? [Re: ]
    #1262533 -

Quote:
Ditto


Rush Limbaugh?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: dna? [Re: Evolving]
    #1262569 -

:wink:  :laugh:  No, Patrick Swayze (sp?) from the movie, Ghost.

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Re: dna? [Re: Swami]
    #1262651 -

I believe that this speaks more to our frame of reference, rather than any deep truth. and A fishes frame of reference is water as that is all it knows. Yet we know there is much more to the world than that. ALL frames of reference are highly limited to our form, environment and experience.

What are you trying to say? You are intimating that a particular person's view point is superior and can extricate us, all of us, from the general consensus that is known as reality? If so, I'd like to met them.

The fact is, whether you like it or not, or whether you are comfortable with it or not, that the DNA code is a code and as such is information. We know of no other source for information other than intelligence. If you do I suggest you let us and several peer-reviewed science journals know. You'd be famous.

I am really not sure what you are driving at here. Could you explain in detail. Use small words. My dictionary broke.

You said:

As we are finite creatures with a beginning and an end, we really cannot conceive of something being non-created.

The plain meaning of your statement was that we, as humans, cannot conceive of something that is neither self-created or other-created.

Conceive:

1. To become pregnant with (offspring).
2. To form or develop in the mind; devise: conceive a plan to increase profits.
3. To apprehend mentally; understand: couldn't conceive the meaning of that sentence.
4. To be of the opinion that; think: didn't conceive such a tragedy could occur.

Definitions 2-4 all relate to being able to think of something.

Philosophers, Theologians, and Religionists have all been able to think about, or conceive if you will, the existence of something that is neither self-created nor other-created. Your idea that people cannot do that is false. It has been done and will be done time out of mind.

Nice equivocating though.

It is shocking for those enamoured of the prowess of science to end up back at the theologian's table. I suggest you peruse the menu before you leave the restaurant. Some of the food here is "divine".

And don't tip too heavily. The waiters will think you are from out of town.

Cheers


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Re: dna? [Re: ]
    #1262891 -

Both of you fuggers really should adopt Heteroabsolutism.  It makes contradiction almost a necessity  :wink:.  Especially you Mr_Mushrooms (besides, Swami pretty much has already)... I saw a whopper of a contradiction that I was going to point out... aw hell... I hope you enjoy this...

{Initial Post}MM:DNA code is a code and whether we like it or not the process of induction leads us inexorably to the conclusion that we are created and that there was a Creator.
Sclorch: However, the BZ reaction is a perfect example of chemicals creating order on a macro scale. Maybe it all started like that. Ten thousand years went by and BAM!! a lipid membrane was formed. Another ten thousand years go by and BAM!! amino acids are formed.... and BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM.... Maybe it took a few hundred million years before something even close to RNA was formed. I don't think this is an improbable explanation.
{A}MM: Ah "maybe" "maybe" "maybe" horseshit.
Swami {replying to MM's initial post}: I believe that this speaks more to our frame of reference, rather than any deep truth.
{B}MM: All we have is our frame of reference to discern anything. What else would one use? Philosophical Idealism kant help you here

Okay, in {A} you have a problem with my use of the rather non-absolute word "maybe".  Then in {B}, you have a problem with absolutes.  First you hate relativism... then you like it... What the fuck? :laugh:  I think you invented a new branch of philosophy- bipolarism.  :grin:

Edit: smilies....


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

Edited by Sclorch (01/30/03 05:27 PM)

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Re: dna? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1262942 -

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

As soon as I've seen your dissertation and thoroughly examined it I'll probably become a lifetime member.

You don't charge much for dues, do you?

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Re: dna? [Re: ]
    #1262962 -

No dues... I doubt I'll write any sort of dissertation for at least a decade (I'm guessing it will take that long to finish reading all the books I'd like to read before I do all that trailblazing... maybe it's more like doing a little edging, but whatever).

All you have to do to be a member is sell me your soul. :wink:
You still in? 


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: dna? [Re: ]
    #1262987 -

You are intimating that a particular person's view point is superior and can extricate us, all of us, from the general consensus that is known as reality?
There is an example of major conclusion-jumping. Never said nor implied that.

The fact is, whether you like it or not, or whether you are comfortable with it or not, that the DNA code is a code and as such is information.
Sure it is information. Any given rock contains "information". What I like or don't like is not at issue here. Why you feel the continued need to personalize this I do not understand.

We know of no other source for information other than intelligence.
Because of a limited reference point, I would not expect otherwise. That does not make it valid.

I am really not sure what you are driving at here. Could you explain in detail. Use small words. My dictionary broke.
I am really not sure what you are driving at here except to continue the counter-productive sarcasm.




--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: dna? [Re: mr crisper]
    #1263109 -

Does anybody know if human DNA is more "complex" code than other creatures? And do you have a source?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: dna? [Re: Swami]
    #1263114 -

There is an example of major conclusion-jumping. Never said nor implied that.

That is a personal remark and the kind I find insulting. Of course I was jumping at conclusions. Your remark was so vague I had to guess at an answer. That has nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion. You are deliberately trying to paint me as if I am jumping at conclusions. Stop it. I do not like it.

Address the point. What are you driving at?

Sure it is information. Any given rock contains "information". What I like or don't like is not at issue here. Why you feel the continued need to personalize this I do not understand.

Stop personalizing by saying I am personalizing. Deal? And quit trying to hide behind hyper-literalism. No rock is written in code. There is a big difference between aperiodic and periodic. DNA code is so similiar to language no one can speak about it using terms other than those used to describe language. You're not Spock, Swami.

Because of a limited reference point, I would not expect otherwise. That does not make it valid.

What exactly are you saying here? I steadfastly refuse to jump.

I am really not sure what you are driving at here except to continue the counter-productive sarcasm.

What you are seeing as sarcasm is humor. Lighten up.

Now, please, were you or were you not wrong about people being able to conceive a non-created thing? Address the point.

As music calms the savage beast I suggest you listen to this. It is bovine DNA code turned into music. Not only a delight for the ears who can hear it but an exquisite example of how the code is a language.

Cheers





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Re: dna? [Re: ]
    #1263152 -

Here's a better link for those who are interested. The last one was broken.

Click here.

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Re: dna? [Re: ]
    #1263182 -

"And we all know how painful that broken-cell-music can be!"


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

Edited by Strumpling (01/30/03 07:06 PM)

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Re: dna? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1263225 -

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

Did you listen to it?  If you did what did you think?

Rather interesting isn't it?

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Re: dna? [Re: ]
    #1263311 -

Its quite an extrapolation, but yeah man its definitely startlingly well-organized, although it lacks rhythm at times :smile:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: dna? [Re: ]
    #1264261 -

That music reminds me of this time I was at the mall a few years back. I went into the piano & organ store and there was this Trisomy kid fumbling around on a casio synthesizer. Goddamn was it annoying. I could tell it was annoying the salespeople too. The only reason they didn't kick the kid off it was because his mother was right there smiling along side him saying crap like "I think he has a gift" and "sounds good, doesn't it?"

BTW, that's not just a simple note-for-each-base-pair piece of moosick... it's obviously been tweaked (via added whole notes that overlap- which the DNA code DOES NOT do).


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: dna? [Re: mr crisper]
    #1264462 -

An understanding of chemical bonding, organic chemistry, and thermodynamics is absolutely critical in understanding the origin of life and evolution of DNA. DNA is really not that complex of a molecule once you understand the groups of atoms involved and the bonding that takes place. There are also several other nucleic acids that are even less complex than DNA (evidence for evolution).

DNA From the Beginning is a good website to start learning about DNA but it is far from complete (doesnt even go into atomic structure).


--------------------
:egyptian:

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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