Home | Community | Message Board

MushroomMan Mycology
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Mix   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore Boomr Bag   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer?
    #11137114 - 09/27/09 12:39 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I am about to argue that yes, absolutely; condensation in your fruiting chamber is an excellent indicator of high relative humidity. I will also argue that the reverse in not true; the lack of condensation is not an indicator of rh in any way.

Before you lock this thread, accuse me of blasphemy, burn me at the stake, etcetera, please hear me out.

Let's begin with a thought experiment: Imagine a glass orb floating in the vacuum of space. There is quite a bit of water in the orb and it has been floating for quite some time at a constant temperature.

The vapor pressure of the water is completely dependent on the temperature, so it also has been constant all this time. So we can expect that the relative humidity inside this orb is 100%. It has reached it's full potential for this constant temperature.

Our orb now floats through the shadow of some other object. It cools. The vapor pressure decreases, the volume of liquid water inside the orb increases. The vapor pressure is still at it's maximum potential. The rh is still 100%.

Our orb now floats out of the shadow. It warms. The vapor pressure begins to increase. The temperature is rising much faster than the water is evaporating back into a gas. The potential vapor pressure is now higher than the current vapor pressure. The rh of our orb is falling quickly, 90, 80, 70... The orb again reaches a constant temperature. The water is still evaporating; vapor pressure is now catching up with it's full potential at that constant temperature. The relative humidity is now rising, 70, 80, 90. It reaches it's full potential, 100% rh.

I argue that this is precisely what is happening inside our fruiting chambers. The warm moist air radiating from the mycelium is cooling against the walls of the chamber. The potential water vapor pressure is decreasing, forcing the vapor back into a liquid. It condenses against the wall of the chamber forming small droplets. Relative humidity begins to approach 100%, the small droplets now turn into small streams flowing downward into the perlite.

The cultivator looks at his or her terrarium and thinks, "Good, plenty of humidity in there. My babies should be happy."

Time passes. The cultivator dutifully fans his or her babies. Water vapor escapes and is replaced by the liquid water in the perlite. The water begins to get depleted. There's not enough water to sustain the h20 vapor pressure to it's maximum potential. The sides of the chamber are drying up. The cultivator looks at his or her fruiting chamber and thinks, "Oh no, I better water my babies. And gives the chamber a good misting." Water vapor pressure slowly reaches it's maximum potential. Water once again condenses on the sides of the chamber.

-----
end thought experiment

Let's look at what the trusted cultivator's on this forum have to say on this issue. Names have been removed to protect the innocent.

Condensation is an indication of a temperature differential, and has absolutely ZERO to do with relative humidity inside the terrarium. What you're saying is that in the winter when condensation forms on your windows, your house must be at nearly 100%, when in fact it's closer to 10% or even less. When you pull a beer out of the refrigerator or pour a glass of iced tea in the summer and the glass gets wet, does this mean it's 100% humidity, even if you're in the Arizona desert? As said hundreds of times, condensation is caused by a TEMPERATURE differential between two surfaces.

This argument has been made a thousand times over on the cultivation forum. The same examples are made, the same argument is made, over and over.

Lets begin with the basis of the argument, "Condensation is an indication of a temperature differential."

It's TRUE.

In fact the ONLY independent variables that matter for the calculation of rh are the current vapor pressure of water in the space you are measuring and the temperature. That's it. The other factors are scientific constants.

Lets look at the examples given: the warm air in your house bumps against the cold glass of your windows and forms condensation, yet the rh of your house is nowhere near 100%.

True. However, the rh of the air bumping against the glass is approaching 100% as it slowly forced into a liquid state forming condensation on the glass. Same thing applies to a beer you take out of the fridge on a warm day. The rh of the air bumping into the cold glass is approaching 100%.

Fortunately for our cultivator. The volume of his fruiting chamber is much smaller than that of a house. It is also fortunate that the heat generated by the mycelium is small. The temperature differential we're talking about is 5 degrees F at most.

So while the principle they are discussing is correct, their conclusion is wrong and their examples don't apply. Our cultivator is perfectly rational in assuming the condensation on the walls of his fruiting chamber is an indicator of high relative humidity.

Let me state clearly though that the reverse is not true and thus can not be used to falsify my argument. The absence of condensation is not an indicator of relative humidity. It could be 100 or it could be zero. There just isn't any condensation action occurring.

Now you might be thinking: that's an absurd argument. My fruiting chamber does not exist in a vacuum. There's all kinds of other gases there doing god knows what. Well, believe it or not the vapor pressure of water is independent of the vapor pressure of other environmental gasses. While it's possible there's some polar solvent affecting the vapor pressure, that is just as likely to throw off a hygrometer, or kill the mycelium, or kill the cultivator for that matter. For our purpose, we can assume that the vapor pressure of water is independent of atmospheric pressure.

Sorry to challenge an established paradigm, but I'm quite certain I am correct.

Perhaps I should post a link to this thread on the chemistry forum to get some backup.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Edited by anonjon (09/27/09 02:44 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThyrax
No way
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 1,068
Loc: Montreal, Quebec
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: anonjon]
    #11137121 - 09/27/09 12:40 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I remember RR Saying in this exact same word : Your face is not a valid Hygrometer, LOL


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNewfound_wonder
Social Outcast
Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 447
Last seen: 12 years, 24 days
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: Thyrax]
    #11137137 - 09/27/09 12:43 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe you could test how accurate of a hygrometer your face is by measuring the humidity of a chamber with your face and then check it with a hygrometer.


--------------------
If it's good for fungus, it's good for us...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: Newfound_wonder]
    #11137150 - 09/27/09 12:48 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I expect someone to do this. They will wait till the walls are dripping, open the chamber, stick a hygrometer in there and take a picture.

I hope people can see the problem with that and how it would not disprove my hypothesis.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrandNewbie
Captain
Male


Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 2,932
Loc: U.S.A.
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: anonjon]
    #11137180 - 09/27/09 12:56 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Look, being politically correct is just NOT saying what everybody KNOWS is true. Having pointed that out, I'm gonna throw it out there,

IT'S MAGIC PEOPLE!  WHY DO YOU THINK THEY CALL THEM MAGIC MUSHROOMS!!!! Damn


(LOL I couldn't resist.) :calledajoke:


--------------------
Question: Why do women wear make-up and perfume? 
Answer: Because they're ugly and they stink.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecne9999
Stranger Danger
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 463
Loc: The Sol system
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: anonjon]
    #11195641 - 10/06/09 06:06 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

booyah!

Great post.


--------------------
  Say hello to my little friend.    and...      From Sonny
     
AFOAF's Coffee Experiment  //  Rye Berry Cakes  //  My FOAF  //  I killed my baby Cubes!
Get a freaking camera!  //  Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle  //  I love P.c.Burma!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineveda_sticks
Cultivator
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: cne9999]
    #11195973 - 10/06/09 07:00 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

You obviously havnt seen the monotub that had a shit load of condensation yet only 86%rh.

Condensation happens because of a differential in tempearute between the inside and outside. The surfaces of the walls will be slightly cooler and that allows moisture to condense out of the air, which happens regardles of RH. If theres moisture in the air, it can condesse out of the air.

All condensation says is that theres a temp diff and moisture in the air. It doesnt say how much, or even that its high enough for fruiting.

Take a cold beer out of the fridge, oh look condensation!! i better get the dehumidifier going!!!!

Also, we have seen many people post shouting "theres no condensation in my fruiting chamber! is my humidity low/how to raise humidity"

Even people questioning there hygrometer. There tubs fruited fine.

Quote:

Condensation is the change of the physical state of aggregation (or simply state) of matter from gaseous phase into liquid phase and the reverse of evaporation..[1] When the transition happens from the gaseous phase into the solid phase directly, bypassing the liquid phase, the change is called deposition. While condensation can occur in many different substances, the condensation of water vapor in air is by far the most common experienced (such as the formation of dew on a cold drink).

Condensation commonly occurs when a vapor is cooled to its dew point, but the dew point can also be reached through compression. The condensed vapor is called a condensate, the laboratory or the industrial equipment used for condensation is called a condenser.

The science of studying the thermodynamic properties of moist air and the interrelationships between these in order to analyze, and predict properties by changing in the conditions of moist air is called psychrometry. The interrelationship can be graphically represented, and prediction carried out graphically by the psychrometric chart. Most people think the water is condensation, but condensation is only the process of change.

Water vapor that naturally condenses on cold surfaces into liquid water is called dew. Water vapor will normally only condense onto another surface when the temperature of that surface is cooler than the temperature of the water vapor.




--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisible13shroomsM
Lightning Shaman
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: veda_sticks]
    #11196154 - 10/06/09 07:30 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The message is simple and insightful: one piece of scientific data can describe two entirely differant perceptions. And when we truly believe in a perception, we see it as the one and only reality and ignore all other posible realities.




Spontaneous Evolution



13:mushroom2:


--------------------
:takingnotes:A M U:helpdesk:
Click here ^ for the AMU forum
VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV
"Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~  Marshall McLuhan

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: veda_sticks]
    #11196415 - 10/06/09 08:12 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

veda_sticks said:
You obviously havnt seen the monotub that had a shit load of condensation yet only 86%rh.




no I haven't, because it doesn't commonly occur. In order for that to occur there would have had to have been a sudden / drastic change in the temp outside the chamber. Most likely caused because the grow room was sealed.

Quote:


Condensation happens because of a differential in tempearute between the inside and outside. The surfaces of the walls will be slightly cooler and that allows moisture to condense out of the air, which happens regardles of RH. If theres moisture in the air, it can condesse out of the air.




Yes, we've established this fact. The warm air radiating from the mycelium condenses against the cooler chamber wall. But this moisture will not persist as a liquid, i.e. be visible, unless rh inside the chamber is high.

Quote:


All condensation says is that theres a temp diff and moisture in the air. It doesnt say how much, or even that its high enough for fruiting.





Sorry, you're wrong. Unless you've drastically changed the temp of your house or grow room, you can safely assume condensation is an indicator of high humidity.

Quote:


Take a cold beer out of the fridge, oh look condensation!! i better get the dehumidifier going!!!!





I covered this example in my post. I doubt you even bothered to read it before you regurgitated the crap you've absorbed from reading too many RR posts.

"Lets look at the examples given: the warm air in your house bumps against the cold glass of your windows and forms condensation, yet the rh of your house is nowhere near 100%.

True. However, the rh of the air bumping against the glass is approaching 100% as it slowly forced into a liquid state forming condensation on the glass. Same thing applies to a beer you take out of the fridge on a warm day. The rh of the air bumping into the cold glass is approaching 100%.

Fortunately for our cultivator. The volume of his fruiting chamber is much smaller than that of a house. It is also fortunate that the heat generated by the mycelium is small. The temperature differential we're talking about is 5 degrees F at most. "

Quote:


Also, we have seen many people post shouting "theres no condensation in my fruiting chamber! is my humidity low/how to raise humidity"





I covered this also...

"Let me state clearly though that the reverse is not true and thus can not be used to falsify my argument. The absence of condensation is not an indicator of relative humidity. It could be 100 or it could be zero. There just isn't any condensation action occurring."


For years and years before shotgun terrariums became popular, people used condensation as the best indication of high RH. Shotgun terrariums allow the moisture to dissipate without accumulating on the walls. So often you'll have high rh without condensation. This doesn't negate my argument in the least.

For our purposes, if you stick your face inside the terrarium and see water dripping down the sides, you may safely assume the RH is very high.

You can regurgitate that bs till you are blue in the face, but the facts are on my side.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Edited by anonjon (10/06/09 08:20 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecne9999
Stranger Danger
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 463
Loc: The Sol system
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: anonjon]
    #11197842 - 10/06/09 11:34 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Booyah again! 

I may be repeating things but humor me! 

The question seems to be: Can you see and / or feel RH?  Or better stated, is your face a hygrometer?  My answer is absolutely yes!  and no...  Yes, that is a fact.  That is as long as you don’t have some sort of nerve disorder.  Sorry RR. 

Why yes and no?
YES - because you certainly can see RH at the levels needed to grow mushrooms if you know a few other things about your environment.  This is a fact and is not up for debate.

NO - because you cannot see RH at much lower levels.  AND you cannot see H (Humidity) at all but more on that later.

The condensation you see on that cold brew is simple to explain and you are seeing RH in action.  You are seeing an RH level of 100% in action.  LOL!  I will explain some more.  The surface of the can must be cooler than the water vapor that is touching; not the air outside the fridge.  Please remember this for later.

If there is enough water in the air to warrant the condensation AND that water vapor is warmer then the surface of the can you will see condensation that is the result of an RH of 100%.  You are seeing RH.  It is NOT the temperature outside the fridge itself that causes condensation.  But there you are seeing an RH level of 100% in that immediate area of the air that surrounds the can because that air is saturated.  That is a fact.  So even in your example you are seeing an RH level of 100%.  Thanks for making our point.  LOL!

The real question is “What is the actual saturation point of the particular environment?” That is RH.  Most of you think RH and H are the same.  They are not!

“Relative humidity” compares the actual amount of water vapor in the air with the amount of water vapor that the air can actually hold.  This factor changes with temperature, pressure, other gas content such as nitrogen, etc…

“Humidity” is not a comparison.  It is simply a flat measurement of water vapor in the air; at any temperature, at any pressure, at any time, at any rate, at any ‘ANY’.

One more fact to understand and this is where the ability to see RH starts to come into play, is that cold air cannot hold as much water vapor as warm air.  So the humidity level may never change but a change in temperature can change the RH.  Confused?  Sit tight…

Now that you know you can SEE RH let’s dig deeper and put it into perspective for our mushrooms.

So RH actually changes as the temperature changes but the humidity does not change at all.  But temperature is not the only thing that can affect RH.  There are many other factors.  Once you understand this you can start to know when you are seeing RH correctly or if some other factor is mimicking an RH effect. 

I don’t care what anyone else says, you can see RH.  Maybe not at all levels but you most certainly can see RH at certain levels.  More importantly those levels happen to be the same levels you need for your fungi to thrive at the temperatures they need to thrive.  So if you know the temperature in your ‘BOX’ then you certainly can see and feel if the RH is high.  Sorry RR.

What I look for is active condensation.  Dripping, smaller droplets, steam, fog, etc.  This is a sign of saturated air.  Meaning high RH, above 90%.  So yes I can see RH!  If my temperature is where I want it and I see active condensation I see RH.  I can tell if it is between 90% and 100% and that is all I need to know.  I have several terrariums I have never put an RH gauge in and they have produced some the best crops I’ve seen.  I watch them every day as often as possible and mist when I feel necessary but have never put an RH gauge in any of them.  The only time I do put a gauge in a tub or terrarium is when I am doing an experiment and then I do so as a control.  Only a good scientist would concede at that point. 

Look at my picture galleries.  They speak for themselves.  Do you see any gauges in the pictures that are not experimental cakes, tubs or trays?  No you don’t but there are still a lot of good harvests.

There is more you should understand before you can toss your RH gauge in the garbage.  When the air becomes saturated (RH at 100%), the extra water vapor will condense.  Period.  No matter what temperature as long as it is above freezing.  An RH of 100% will ‘rain’.

Also, concerning the mono-tub with what you think is condensation on the walls but has an RH of 86%.  This is an evaporation issue.  Not an RH issue.  It is relatively easy to spot.  Those droplets, and I’ve seen them, are ‘inactive condensation’.  That is my own term.  It simply means they condensed there at one time but there is not enough ambient and local energy to evaporate them.  For any liquid to evaporate it requires two things: Energy, usually in the form of heat or high relative temperatures, and motion which helps invoke the phase transition state.  In a mono-tub there is very little if any constant moving air.  The half minute of moving air you give that tub every hour or so is not enough.

This evaporation issue is also affected by the surface tension of the liquid and the molecules it holds.  You use tap water?  That has a high surface tension.  You use distilled water?  That has a lower surface tension.  Why?  The tap has dissolved solids the distilled does not.  Those affect the surface tension of the water.  So not all water is equal; Sorry again RR.  Yet another reason I use distilled water every where I can and can afford it.

Is anyone here familiar with ‘Screen Printing’?  It is a form of forced evaporation.  But I am not going deeper into that right now.  That is for another ten mile long thread.  Bottom line still water is easy to spot and what you saw in the mono-tub with an 86% RH is still water whose surface tension has not been broken and not active condensation. 

I think I’ve said enough for now.  But I have thousands more words on the subject if needed.

Bottom line:  For the RH you need to grow mushrooms if you know a some minimal things about your environment you definitely can see and even feel RH so YES, your face can be an adequate hygrometer for the basic aspects of the hobby.  Period.


--------------------
  Say hello to my little friend.    and...      From Sonny
     
AFOAF's Coffee Experiment  //  Rye Berry Cakes  //  My FOAF  //  I killed my baby Cubes!
Get a freaking camera!  //  Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle  //  I love P.c.Burma!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefeelfunny
I am you
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 8,747
Loc: South
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: cne9999]
    #11197903 - 10/06/09 11:42 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

:popcorn: this is the most fun i have had all night


--------------------
IF A CAT AND DOG CAN GET ALONG WHY CANT EVERYONE ELSE?
If the sky is falling, don't look up!  :abduction:

Feel Family Founder. :pm: me if you are tired of hearing, "Use the search function".

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecne9999
Stranger Danger
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 463
Loc: The Sol system
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: feelfunny]
    #11197932 - 10/06/09 11:46 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feelfunny said:
:popcorn: this is the most fun i have had all night




:rofl2:  Shit...  I nearly


--------------------
  Say hello to my little friend.    and...      From Sonny
     
AFOAF's Coffee Experiment  //  Rye Berry Cakes  //  My FOAF  //  I killed my baby Cubes!
Get a freaking camera!  //  Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle  //  I love P.c.Burma!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: cne9999]
    #11198864 - 10/07/09 06:52 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Great post, except one thing...

Quote:

cne9999 said:
�Relative humidity� compares the actual amount of water vapor in the air with the amount of water vapor that the air can actually hold.  This factor changes with temperature, pressure, other gas content such as nitrogen, etc�





This is actually what confuses most people. The above statement is incorrect.

Air is not a sponge that 'holds' water. RH is very simply a factor of 2 things: the current vapor pressure of water in the space in question, and the maximum possible vapor pressure of the water at that temperature.

The maximum possible vapor pressure of water at a given temperature is a scientific constant.

So really the only variables at play are the current vapor pressure of water and the current temperature of that water vapor.

It's counter-intuitive, but true.

This is why their arguments are silly. They keep saying in all caps: CONDENSATION IS CAUSED BY A TEMPERATURE DIFFERENTIAL. But RH is all about temperature differentials. Condensation and dewpoint are directly related to RH. That's the point I've been trying to make and that you make very well in your post above.

I do admit that a hygrometer is a useful tool to have. Because as I've admitted several times, the absence of condensation is not an accurate indication of anything at all. RH could be zero, 100, or any point in between.

I'm glad that someone else finds this as amusing/interesting as I do.

:smile:


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Edited by anonjon (10/07/09 06:57 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: anonjon]
    #11199542 - 10/07/09 10:07 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


I covered this example in my post. I doubt you even bothered to read it before you regurgitated the crap you've absorbed from reading too many RR posts.




I can't believe such a simple 5th grade science lesson can be so hard to understand.  If you think condensation is an indicator of HIGH humidity, it's not worth arguing the point.  My beer will get condensation in the summer in the desert, even though ambient humidity is 10% or less.

Condensation indicates there at least was some humidity in the air, because it obviously formed condensation. However, it gives no indication of how much humidity was in the air. That moisture is no longer in suspension, because the surface of the terrarium has reached the dew point.  This happens most often when the lights are turned on, because the greenhouse effect warms the air in the terrarium(reducing RH by the way) to the point where the dew point is reached on the surface, thus forming condensation.  Using a shotgun terrarium generally eliminates this condensation problem by exchanging air across the temperature differential, thus canceling the temp swing.  It's the entire basis of how the shotgun terrarium works.

The presence of condensation is not an indicator of high humidity within the terrarium.  I still fail to see how this crap you've absorbed from reading too many RR posts is such a hard subject to grasp. This isn't advanced science. :shrug:
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecyb3rtr0n
searching for truth
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 1,832
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11199596 - 10/07/09 10:17 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Some people detest what you have to say, just because.  It's not even an issue of being right or wrong, it's an issue of RR said it.


to some people you are The Man. much like the government,  god, or a boss at work.  the real motive for disagreement is not that you are wrong, its just that you said it, and others use it as reference.


--------------------
LAGM v.2.024 Grow log

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHerbal_Elixer
Strangerest
 User Gallery


Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 1,841
Loc: Reykjavik
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: cyb3rtr0n]
    #11199710 - 10/07/09 10:41 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

bleh.. buy a $5 gauge


--------------------

Edited by Herbal_Elixer (10/07/09 12:59 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePinback
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/02
Posts: 836
Loc: Europe
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: Herbal_Elixer]
    #11199933 - 10/07/09 11:24 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I am wondering if someone could measure the temperature inside their fruiting chamber (in the middle of the air, be careful to not disturb it too much) and outside (just next to it) and post it here. Let the thermometer equilibrate for at least 5 minutes. I would have done it myself if I would have had something fruiting right now, but alas, I don't.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: cyb3rtr0n]
    #11201625 - 10/07/09 04:17 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

the real motive for disagreement is not that you are wrong, its just that you said it, and others use it as reference.




That's not entirely true. I've learned a lot from the guy and I don't know of anyone who's done more for the advancement of the hobby.

But sometimes people get in a rut where they repeat the same argument so many times that they believe it to be divinely inspired.

You're right Roger, it is 5th grade science and I don't understand how you can continue to use the same inapplicable examples even after I thoroughly debunk them.

This is nothing like the condensation on a glass from the fridge.

1. The inside of the fridge is colder than the outside whereas in the terrarium the opposite is true.

2. The temperature differential in the terrarium's case is much smaller than the fridge.

3. You can observe the condensation without opening the terrarium. You aren't causing a sudden drastic temperature differential like you are by removing the beer from the fridge.

It just doesn't apply.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecloudsaregathering
pasturbater
Male


Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 1,283
Loc: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Last seen: 1 month, 7 days
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: anonjon]
    #11201658 - 10/07/09 04:23 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

you know what who gives a fuck I have never used a thing-a-maggiger and my shit does mighty fine so bleh...


--------------------

"the root of the problem has been isolated"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecyb3rtr0n
searching for truth
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 1,832
Re: Is condensation an indicator of high rh? Is my face a hygrometer? [Re: anonjon]
    #11201688 - 10/07/09 04:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

the substrate is also causing a difference.

the water has three places to go.  in the air, on the surface of the container or in the substrate.


--------------------
LAGM v.2.024 Grow log

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Mix   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore Boomr Bag   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* lowering rH without hygrometer tristan1018 784 5 10/03/05 05:40 PM
by tristan1018
* 75% rH...broken hygrometer? (PIC) Aeolus1369 1,058 3 05/16/04 03:31 PM
by cheech101
* Calibrate your Hygrometer,or take accurate readings without one Peterthinks 712 4 12/05/04 03:31 AM
by lesstutrey
* Hygrometers, and the D.I.Y. ethic KingCobWeb 2,386 7 11/23/02 02:57 PM
by joeshitragpicker
* Checking Your Hygrometer Calibration Nighted 2,473 2 02/26/02 06:24 AM
by cookiewhore
* Rh Problems for a casing..... Teknion 1,040 3 02/02/04 04:24 PM
by Teknion
* RH problems kungpow 788 6 10/26/05 12:01 PM
by DAsanchez
* hygrometer nighthunter 677 3 02/03/05 10:06 AM
by LaughingJim

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
9,889 topic views. 31 members, 135 guests and 110 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.03 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 14 queries.