THC Titan said:

Poid said:

Yes, one that can be learned anywhere.

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By yourself?

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Socialization For Dummies

By I.M. Asperger

Quote:

Because Althusser held that our desires, choices, intentions, preferences, judgements and so forth are the consequences of social practices, he believed it necessary to conceive of how society makes the individual in its own image. Within capitalist societies, the human individual is generally regarded as a subject endowed with the property of being a self-conscious 'responsible' agent. For Althusser, however, a person’s capacity for perceiving himself in this way is not innately given. Rather, it is acquired within the structure of established social practices, which impose on individuals the role (forme) of a subject.[49] Social practices both determine the characteristics of the individual and give him an idea of the range of properties he can have, and of the limits of each individual. Althusser argues that many of our roles and activities are given to us by social practice: for example, the production of steelworkers is a part of economic practice, while the production of lawyers is part of politico-legal practice. However, other characteristics of individuals, such as their beliefs about the good life or their metaphysical reflections on the nature of the self, do not easily fit into these categories. In Althusser’s view, our values, desires and preferences are inculcated in us by ideological practice, the sphere which has the defining property of constituting individuals as subjects.[50] Ideological practice consists of an assortment of institutions called Ideological State Apparatuses (ISAs), which include the family, the media, religious organisations and, most importantly, the education system, as well as the received ideas they propagate.[51] There is, however, no single ISA that produces in us the belief that we are self-conscious agents. Instead, we derive this belief in the course of learning what it is to be a daughter, a schoolchild, black, a steelworker, a councillor, and so forth.

Despite its many institutional forms, the function and structure of ideology is unchanging and present throughout history;[52] as Althusser states, "ideology has no history".[53] All ideologies constitute a subject, even though he or she may differ according to each particular ideology. Memorably, Althusser illustrates this with the concept of "hailing" or "interpellation".[54] He uses the example of an individual walking in a street: upon hearing a policeman shout "Hey you there!", the individual responds by turning around and in this simple movement of his body he is transformed into a subject.[55] The person being hailed recognizes himself as the subject of the hail, and knows to respond. Even though there was nothing suspicious about his walking in the street, he recognizes it is indeed he himself that is being hailed.[56] This recognition is a mis-recognition (méconnaissance)[57] in that it is working retroactively: a material individual is always-already an ideological subject, even before he is born.[58] The "transformation" of an individual into a subject has always-already happened; Althusser acknowledges here a debt toward Spinoza's theory of immanence.[59] To highlight this, Althusser offers the example of Christian religious ideology, embodied in the Voice of God, instructing a person on what his place in the world is and what he must do to be reconciled with Christ.[60] From this, Althusser draws the point that in order for that person to identify himself as a Christian, he must first already be a subject; that is to say, by responding to God's call, by following His rules, he is affirming himself as a free agent, the author of the acts for which he assumes responsibility.[61] For Althusser, we acquire our identities by seeing ourselves mirrored in ideologies,[62] and it is by being subjected ourselves that we become subjects.[63]

Further to the above, Althusser advances two theses on ideology: I, "Ideology represents the imaginary relationship of individuals to their real conditions of existence"[64]; II, "Ideology has a material existence"[65]. The first thesis tenders the familiar Marxist contention that ideologies have the function of masking the exploitative arrangements on which class societies are based.

The second thesis posits that ideology does not exist in the form of "ideas" or conscious "representations" in the "minds" of individuals. Rather, ideology consists of the actions and behaviours of bodies governed by their disposition within material apparatuses. Central to the view of individuals as responsible subjects is the notion of an explanatory link between belief and action, that
“ every 'subject' endowed with a 'conciousness' and believing in the 'ideas' that his 'consciousnes' inspires in him and freely accepts, must ' act according to his ideas', must therefore inscribe his own practice as a free subject in the actions of his material practice.[66] ”

For Althusser, this is yet another effect of social practice:
“ I shall therefore say that, where only a single subject (such and such individual) is concerned, the existence of the ideas of his belief is material in that his ideas are his material actions inserted into his material practices governed by material rituals which are themselves defined by the material ideological apparatus from which we derive the ideas of that subject...Ideas have disappeared as such (insofar as they are endowed with an ideal or spiritual existence), to the precise extent that it has emerged that their existence is inscribed in the actions of practices governed by rituals defined in the last instance by an ideological apparatus. It therefore appears that the subject acts insofar as he is acted by the following system (set out in the order of its real determination): ideology existing in a material ideological apparatus, describing material practices governed by a material ritual, which practices exist in the material actions of a subject acting in all consciousness according to his belief. [67] ”

These material rituals may be compared with Bourdieu's concept of habitus. ISAs may also anticipate Foucault's disciplinary institutions which provide a critical rethinking of Althusser.

Althusser also recognized the role played by what he termed "Repressive State Apparatuses".[68] At times when individuals and groups pose a threat to the dominant order the state invokes Repressive State Apparatuses. The most benign of the RSAs are the systems of law and courts where putatively public contractual language is invoked in order to govern individual and collective behavior. As threats to the dominant order mount, the state turns to increasingly physical and severe measures: incarceration, police force and ultimately military intervention are used in response.

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Dystopia said:

This is a strong push in the direction of the government to help in raising complacent citizens who will never question authority and will always - without fail obediently follow directions. (see video below at end of post).

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I was wondering if this was the intentional aim of the movement; I bet it might be.

Dystopia said:

You're already disciplined to REQUEST to relieve a bodily function during class. You're given a piece of paper that dictates how long you're allowed to do so, and if you don't relieve that bodily function in a specified amount of time, you will be spending the rest of your after-school time "paying for it".

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Dystopia said:

Also, during "pep rallies", students will be indoctrinated for war. We're told to "hate" the neighboring school and that "we" are better than "they" are. For no reason - simply because we are who we are, and they! are who... they! are.

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Yeah, pep-rallies and school pride is a whole bunch of bullshit; not once did I attend one.

Dystopia said:

Students are also taught to listen to their daily announcements. Although boring, and students may not "pay attention", they are not allowed to speak or leave the room. Students are only removed to be disciplined after announcements are over.

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Dystopia said:

Students are also taught how to stand in lines, how to request certain foods that are given to them because "I just can't wait for turkey and gravy day" and the menu fits the "food pyramid" -- we all know this is the only healthy way to raise the little butterballs who get out of breath before the reach the other end of the basketball court.

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, true that!

Dystopia said:

My argument stands that students should be taught more mathematics and sciences - however, they should also be given the opportunity to indulge in creative and critical thought, which are typically included in such classes as what used to be called "Literature" and "Art".

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Dystopia said:

Let them have the summers off. Give them more during the hours that they're there. If they want to take summer courses and get ahead, that is their perogative or their parents'...


That is, if the parents even have any say in what their children do with their education anymore.

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I think the entire education system needs to be completely revamped. The idea of "summer vacation" rings oddly in my ears...



I'll have to read that article and watch that video later on, though, but thanks for posting them!

I'd like to refer everyone to this website that deals with modern compulsory education from the perspective of a former New York teacher of the year:
John Taylor Gatto - Challenging the Myths of Modern Schooling

tiny_rabid_birds said:

are we forgetting that we're talking about children?  yes, a child has to ask to go to the bathroom, because a child cannot necessarily be reasonably trusted to make informed decisions with foresight into the effects on future education.  if kids didn't have to ask to go to the bathroom from a young age but rather were permitted to go about as they please, don't you think they'd realize there wasn't much keeping them in the "boring" classroom?  which is more appealing to a little kid's immediate interest: learning rudimentary arithmetic, or playing with army men in the sand box?  uhhh.. hello?  but which is more important to his/her future?

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, what the fuck?

You think a child cannot reasonably bear the responsibility of going to the restroom and coming back in a timely manner?

Your second argument here is partly why I believe the school system needs to be completely revamped; children needn't be forced to learn, and doing so only serves to their detriment.

tiny_rabid_birds said:

and listening to daily announcements?  are you really fitting that into your conspiracy theory?  it's simply local news.  localized to the very school itself.  what exactly is wrong with having a public notice informing kids what's happening in the school?  you say they're "forced to sit there and be quiet".  but that's simply teaching them common courtesy so that those interested can actually hear the announcements.  when you go to a movie, do you encourage everyone to speak freely and carry on as they please?  and there's often information the kids actually need to know, regarding club meetings, field trips, school photos, schedule changes, etc.  it's a cheap, effective way to get them information they want or need to know.

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Yeah, this is the computer age...

tiny_rabid_birds said:

pep rallies, of course they're indoctrinating social functions intended to promote xenophobia!!  it all makes sense!  there's no way it could simply be that athletic competition is rather deeply ingrained in our society.  nooooo.  there's only like three dozen sports news television channels, so it couldn't be that.  it definitely has to be some evil socialist plot, apparently dating back to the 40s or 50s or whenever pep rallies first emerged.

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What are you even saying here?

tiny_rabid_birds said:

i'm certain none of these rebuttals will have any effect on your opinion though.  you clearly don't quite comprehend the fact that children are often not capable of the foresight necessary to make informed decisions, without the guidance, assistance, and even stern hand of an authority figure/parent/teacher/mentor.  they're simply kids.  you can't expect a child to structure his own education.

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tiny_rabid_birds said:

i'm sorry, but that's simply bullshit.  children, and by children i mean kids 13 and under, by and large are not capable of structuring their own education in an effective manner.

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Sure, if they don't know what they're doing or why they're doing it.

tiny_rabid_birds said:

sure, you may get the random super-motivated, super-capable kid who is able to do so somewhat effectively, but on the whole it just isn't a viable means of education.

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tiny_rabid_birds said:

there's a reason teachers learn how to teach - why there are bachelors, masters, and PhDs in education.

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Because these people are necessary in order to sustain the current educational paradigm?

tiny_rabid_birds said:

it's obvious you're biased on the matter, given your past.  but seriously, do you think a kid with an algebra textbook and left to his own devices is going to outperform a kid with a tutor and a strict study schedule (assuming they were at the same math skill level and apprx IQ prior)?  no fucking way.  it simply isn't effective.

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, WTF do you know about my past, and what about it do you think causes me to be biased?

Again, this is the computer age. These days, there are already online schools with online tutors; need I say more?

tiny_rabid_birds said:

there's no point in arguing this with you any further though.  this is a basic truth that you will undoubtedly continue to deny.

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It completely boggles my mind when people choose to drop in a few lines, but refuse to back up their assertions when they anticipate a rebuttal...

tiny_rabid_birds said:

for those kids with individualistic needs that you're talking about, there's alternative forms of education.

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For poor people, there is no alternative.

Furthermore, every child has individualistic needs, which is why modern compulsive education is fatally flawed.

tiny_rabid_birds said:

we're talking about the public education system though.  so those individual tailored-to-suit-each-child-specifically styles simply won't work.  it's too large of a scale.

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This further proves how modern schooling just doesn't cut it.

tiny_rabid_birds said:

and yes, i ended it abruptly.  i'm tired of repeating myself.  and i'm tired of hearing the same rebuttals.  it's generally at this point that i get bored and move on.  what do you want, studies showing education for kids is best with a teacher than solo?  that's the sort of thing that's so obvious, i don't even think any self-respecting researcher has questioned it.

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, WTF?

You think home-schooled kids receive less than adequate education in comparison to their public-school attending peers?

Dystopia said:

Every child needs individual attention these days because of their parents and the education they are receiving.

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I don't know if that's the only reason why, but I definitely agree that every child needs an individual comprehensive educational plan.

Dystopia said:

No longer is critical thinking or analysis considered. Everything is How does this make you feel? or What would you do if you were _______?. There's no room for any thought at all. Blow through it, give the kids a false sense of intelligence, and make sure you fit the mandated curriculum.

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Dystopia said:

"No child left behind" is your kid losing valuable time furthering his or her education while someone who has individual needs drags everyone down.

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Dystopia said:

Don't forget to spend 2/3 of the year getting them prepared for state mandated tests. Unless these kids are going to get jobs that involve filling in the proper bubble, this is a waste of time and an improper use of tax dollars. I'm sure the teachers don't like it, either. They're not getting paid enough to care, anyway. Even if they did - what could they do to change it? Have the teacher's union go on strike so a kid with a bachelor's can step in at 19k a year?

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, excellent points, Dystopia!

Dystopia said:

Furthermore, Umbrella Parenting is also removing any sort of control children have over his or her own education. If the teacher fails because the system is failing, the parents are more than willing to step in. This is stunting the growth of discipline and responsibility within children.

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Yup.

Dystopia said:

The public education system in the US is failing. Put the smart kids with the smart kids. Put the children that aren't so gifted in classes with people who are learning at the same pace.

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The public education system was always a failure.

I'm not sure I agree with this type of mentality, though, putting kids with kids only of their type...

Dystopia said:

It's like people are afraid to applaud smart children in fear of offending those of lesser intelligence. Everyone's too goddamn sensitive to make logical decisions about the structure of the public education system. If you inject emotions into something like this, nothing will ever get accomplished.

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It's called "political correctness".

Dystopia said:

To give people a false sense of security that everything's going to be OK is just absurd. FIX IT.

It's not the time for the children to stand up and "Do your best, junior!", it's time for adults to take action so that these children have the opportunities to advance intellectually and socially.

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Yup.

Dystopia said:

Stop cutting after-school programs. Encourage free thought. Mold the system to create individuals who want to attend school because they find things to be interesting and challenging. Stop giving everyone the same fucking thing with a pat on the back and their crisp new uniform... so they completely lose any identity.

Allow options and let children - in conjunction with their parents - help make decisions and choices about their educations. That way, umbrella parents won't have to freak out on a teacher for making a decision that they should have been making in the first place; but couldn't, because it's a failing social institution.

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Beautiful!

Quote:

I'm not sure I agree with this type of mentality, though, putting kids with kids only of their type...

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Quote:

It's called "political correctness".

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Dystopia said:

Quote:

I'm not sure I agree with this type of mentality, though, putting kids with kids only of their type...

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I can see the danger of making everyone exactly the same. Say you're lined up to pay $2,000 for a college mathematics course. You made a mistake on a multiple-choice ScanTron sheet and accidentally failed a placement exam.

You're stuck in a room with people taking 8th grade Algebra, while it was a formality to take the placement exam so you could get into Calculus. How fair is it that you're paying 2 grand for that course to learn nothing?

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Yeah, that isn't much different, in a fundamental sense, then what we're doing now; it's still forcing kids to do things.

This is why I think kids should learn on their own time, on their own volition; again, online schools have proven to be at least just as effective as traditional schooling.

Dystopia said:

Don't forget - you have to go every day whether you like it or not. How motivated are you to show up? Even though it's really ezcake-mode for you to do it, how motivated are you to finish the assignments and double check your work?

How motivated are you to take that Calc class the following semester?

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Yup, that's why online classes are a way better alternative, IMO.

Dystopia said:

Quote:

It's called "political correctness".

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I was going to put that in the text of my post, but I didn't want to be too PC about being PC. Jewunit might have gotten offended.

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, someone here would have been offended by that?

Quote:

For poor people, there is no alternative.

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