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Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death.
    #10900667 -

Thats it, thats that, its simple and straight forward.

At current rates of resource depletion and at current rates of social ignorance, we are bound to have massive deaths of people and massive disease suffering in the coming 20-50 years.

So buckle up or change the minds of those sumamambiches!

Facts:

Our system of food production is 100% reliant on OIL.

Hypothetical possibility

When Oil finally hits scarce levels and economies are is depression globally, they will exit the market and take our ability to grow food on our extremely degraded soils.

Welcome to my depression. Its Mine, so HANDS OFF!

:rockon:


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #10900691 -

People have been crying doomsday for thousands of years.  Be it the wrath of god, nuclear holocaust or your modern version.  Every one has been wrong.  Your fear mongering is useless.

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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #10900960 -

I'd rather go out a horrible death than something uneventful. I'm going to die no matter what, at least make it fun!
Sure, change what we can but have fun with what comes. It's only a depression if you're depressed.


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"Every moment of one's existence one is growing into more or retreating into less. One is always living a little more or dying a little bit." -Norman Mailer

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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: DieCommie]
    #10901360 -

Qubit said:
People have been crying doomsday for thousands of years.  Be it the wrath of god, nuclear holocaust or your modern version.  Every one has been wrong.  Your fear mongering is useless.


like 2012.


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Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode

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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: ferrel_human]
    #10901433 -

I call for solar powered hydroponic greenhouses on the roofs of urban buildings


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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: DieCommie]
    #10901445 -

Qubit said:
People have been crying doomsday for thousands of years.  Be it the wrath of god, nuclear holocaust or your modern version.  Every one has been wrong.  Your fear mongering is useless.


There have actually been quite a few actual "doomsdays."  Most civilizations that have ever existed have perished.  What makes you think ours is so different?  Pride goeth before the fall.


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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: Silversoul]
    #10901507 -

Quote:
There have actually been quite a few actual "doomsdays."


Like what?  Link to said prediction and actual doomsday would be nice.  I dont think the fall of rome and such count as doomsday - civilization marched right along as it has for thousands of years.

The OP is fear mongering plane and simple.  Hes making baseless claims of doom and gloom.

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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: DieCommie]
    #10901527 -

Most scientists agree we are having sustainability issues.

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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: DieCommie]
    #10901549 -

Yes you both make good points. All civilisations have fallen somehow. But did their falls correlate with the beliefs of their citizens? Eg we are worried about our society collapsing due to fears that we have right now. Even though our society is likely to collapse eventually (likely, not certain), should we think it will have anything to do with factors that we are aware of and can analyse?

Probably not

Also, people are forgetting that when it comes to the crunch, it is likely that certain people will be sacrificed. There is enough information across teh world in the hands of powerful people for them to withstand any 'economical' collapse. Sudden natural disaster, no, but social upheaval? Twill be the end of our 'egalitarian' joke, but not the end of the empire we are currently a part of


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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: Epigallo]
    #10901560 -

bradley said:
Most scientists agree we are having sustainability issues.


Sure.  I dont see that as inline with the OP at all though.  I dont deny that uncomfortable changes may be ahead - I deny we all die a horrible death.

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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: Noteworthy]
    #10901582 -

It isn't that unlikely that some of our concerns are valid, and can, and will happen. Take New Orleans - they suspected the flood walls weren't high enough to prevent flooding, and that's exactly what happened.

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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: DieCommie]
    #10901622 -

Still - I think some of his sentiment is valid - no, it's extremely unlikely we will all die in the next 20-50 years. But "uncomfortable" doesn't describe the hardships that many will face. I think its okay to brood a little over that - but obviously also not blow it out of proportion.

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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: DieCommie]
    #10901634 -

Qubit said:
Like what?  Link to said prediction and actual doomsday would be nice.  I dont think the fall of rome and such count as doomsday - civilization marched right along as it has for thousands of years.


WTF are you smoking?  Ever heard of the Dark Ages?  The fall of the Roman Empire set Western civilization back hundreds of years.  It wasn't until about the 17th century that civilization finally caught back up with the Romans.

Furthermore, ever heard of the Black Death?  1/3 of Europe's population decimated.  I'd call that a Doomsday scenario.  Incidentally, society back then was much less integrated and interdependent than it is now.  If we had a similar epidemic now, then God help us.  What would happen if it got bad enough to where the truck drivers were afraid to drive the food trucks to Safeway to deliver the food?  How many people would be self-reliant enough to get all the food they need then?  We are incredibly vulnerable right now, and we should not fool ourselves into such hubris as to believe that we can continue living this way indefinitely.

For the record, I do not accept the notion that doomsday is inevitable.  I believe we still have time to turn this vehicle around before we head off a cliff.  But if we do nothing, we are indeed doomed.


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Edited by Silversoul (08/20/09 11:46 PM)

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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: Silversoul]
    #10901726 -

Sounds ethnocentric to me.  Most of the world did just fine during the 'dark ages'.

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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: DieCommie]
    #10901741 -

Qubit said:
Sounds ethnocentric to me.  Most of the world did just fine during the 'dark ages'.


When I speak of "doomsdays," I'm not talking about an absolute one.  I'm talking about the fall of civilizations.  It happened to the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Egyptians, the Romans, etc.  If peak oil hits, and we're not prepared for it, nomadic herders and hunter-gatherers in the African savanna will carry on just fine as though nothing had happened.  But we will all be royally fucked.  Humans will probably not go extinct as a species, but hundreds of millions will die.


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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: Silversoul]
    #10901836 -

Silversoul said:
If peak oil hits, and we're not prepared for it ... hundreds of millions will die.


Sonuds like more fear mongering to me.  Any evidence to support such a claim? 

The vast majority of the resources we ('first worlders') consume goes to luxuries.  The vast majority of food we consume is luxurious non essential food (we feed most of our food to other food!).  If peak oil hits we will lose alot of our luxuriates, our way of life and global supremacy will go away and people will bitch and whine.  Then they will eat their bowl of corn meal go to bed and wake up to live another day.

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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: DieCommie]
    #10901868 -

Qubit said:
Silversoul said:
If peak oil hits, and we're not prepared for it ... hundreds of millions will die.


Sonuds like more fear mongering to me.  Any evidence to support such a claim?


The majority of the world's population is urban, and gets most of its food from far away.  That food in turn is grown using unsustainable methods which deplete the soil and require fertilizer and pesticides which are also imported from far away.  Our entire economic system is about as non-local as it can get, and if the trade routes break down, millions will die.  You tell me how all that wheat and corn from the Midwest will reach New York city when the trucks stop running(not to mention the farm equipment).

The good thing about peak oil is that it will probably be a slow decline(especially given the current recession), for which we are already making some preparations(but not enough).  This is why I'm hopeful that there is still time.  But the more time we waste, the worse it will be.


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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: Silversoul]
    #10901898 -

Quote:
You tell me how all that wheat and corn from the Midwest will reach New York city when the trucks stop running.



Peak oil does not mean no oil.  Bare necessities will be prioritized in such a time.  It will be more expensive, no more luxuries will get shipped and some migration will take place.  But to assume that all trade will cease when oil consumption surpasses production is naive.  It takes very little to ship corn meal around the world - people were doing such things long before the oil economy.  Very little of our current resource usage is devoted to food.  We could take huge hits to our energy capabilities and still ship corn meal to the cities.  Doesnt sound fun, but it is surviving.

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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: DieCommie]
    #10901942 -

lol its not like people will just change tehir living style.. they will resist... if everyone had to eat cornmeal, they would fight eachother


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Re: Change the World. Otherwise, we all die a horrible death. [Re: Noteworthy]
    #10901990 -

Quote:
if everyone had to eat cornmeal, they would fight eachother


Why?  Thats what real life is without luxuries, thats how most people live and have lived.  You can actually make some pretty good stuff with cornmeal.  Once we get over our spoiled attitude life will go on.

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