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Illogical Belief Seemingly Logical
    #10797887 -

Within the past few years, I have been on an impromptu course of studying different religeons and philosophies.

I was raised by a Christian family and attened a Christian church for the first 19 years of my life. I took everything passed down to me as fact/faith. I knew a God existed and had a good spiritual relaitonship with what I thought was God. I relied on Faith to help me get through hard times by knowing things would get better, and relied on righteousness to keep my path in the light instead of faultering to evil.

I was always abreast of my environment, and began to notice suffering in the congregation of families that attended my church. I witnessed the results of alcoholism, drug abuse, domestic abuse, disease, illness and ignorance.

More often than not, these people blamed themselves for these catastrophies and deducted it to God punishing them. I was smart enough to see that God didn't do these things to these people, they were simply making bad decisions and illogical choices that led to self-destruction.

This made me begin to question God's intent. Even when these people faced great opposition and suffering, they basically thought it was God's doing, yet, they repented and asked still for God's grace and professed their love for God. So, if they loved God this strongly, why would he allow all of this suffering, when I knew athiests who lived a much simpler stress-worry-suffering free life.

It didn't make much sense to me and I began to think that maybe God was choosey as to who his favorites were. But, I began to look at my own life, and see the issues I endured through my parents, and looked at how my life was lacking and I began to see the only difference between me and the people that God didn't seem to love, were based merely on life's consequences, Cause and effect, karma, etc.

The more I began to see this, the more I started to 'test' God as I became a teenager. And the result was, that God was still there, he was still within me. I was able to get my hands on alcohol. I'd sit up late after my parents were asleep and drink and look up at the stars while buzzed, but I still felt God;s presence and it didn't feel like I was doing anything wrong.

I once drank and got behind the wheel, and I immediatley realized this was wrong. I felt like God thought it was wrong too.

I later got into sex, and had a one night stand, I felt horrible about it and I felt like God thought the same.

But later I had a girlfriend, and we were having pre-marital sex all the time. I really loved this girl, and I didn't feel the same Guilt. I felt like God thought this was ok as well....

The pattern seemed to repeat itself, and I realized that anything that I felt was appropriate, did not cause conflict with God. And anything that did seem to bring about Guilt and shame, made me feel guilt and shame in the eyes of God.

This didn't make much sense because I was breaking Man's laws left and right and it didnt bother me or God. I realized that the consequences of my actions were what brought about suffering, so, I minimized the consequences by using common sense.

So, as I grew up, I began to question, Who is God really, how does or how can God percieve man? How can he keep track of all of us? Does he really even care what we do or how we do it. So, what was left of my faith began to morph into my own idea of what God is and what it all means.

My Christian belief and upbringing moved into something more like a philosophy than a belief system. I came to the conclusion that I could create my own beliefs, and if I truly believed them, then to me, they would seem very real. I tested this on numerous occasions to the point of feeling very delusional in my day to day life. ( I wont get into those rituals)

This year, I have been studying Hindu philosophies and the way of the Yogis. I find much truth in some of the core precepts. I also feel incessantly attracted to the philosophy to the point of revealing my efforts to my parents. Even when called a heretic and being threatened with the belief that I will be going to hell now for renouncing Christ, I'm not swayed one bit. I have learned much about Christ's path through studying hinduism and practicing yoga and being very active in group meditation.

Lately, I've been studying mantras and the philosophy behind chakras and meridians and energy and even though they are esoteric in nature, I still feel a hint of realness and authenticity to them.

I haven't felt this kind of actual 'belief' in anything since I was very young.

I'm wondering if this is just a state of infatuation with something bigger than myself, or if I'm being drawn closer to the truth through my practice and studies.

I'm trying to determine if I should believe in the power of mantras, and Ganesha, Shiva, Krishna and determining the power of Shavaya. Is it worth while, or is it a waste of time. Am I sacrificing the possiblity of eternal salvation by defying the teachings of the bible and praying (mantras) to false Idols (ganesha).

It's a hell of a brain fuck trying to figure this all out and I thought I had a sliver of hope of abandoning this and returning to Christ exclusively when a friend told me of an urban legend I later found to be just a hoax, about NASA confirming that there was a lost day as indicated by the bible. I quickly realized this was completely false and I quickly resumed focus on my esoteric studies.

Are there others who have swayed form the path of pedagogy as I have to find more faith and belief in something that seems more real than the KJV of the history of spirituality and the world?

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Re: Illogical Belief Seemingly Logical [Re: Fraggin] * 1
    #10798202 -

Thanks for the personal post, Fraggin.

I too was raised Christian, and I too departed from that path in search of answers. I went atheist very early... around 12 years old. Maintained that belief in the face of much resistance from my Mother. By 16, I was back in the fold -- mushrooms had given me spiritual experiences which had blown any sort of atheistic view out of the water. I wasn't a Christian again... I had no connection with Christ at all. I wasn't Jewish either. I just knew that there was something greater than myself. There was no question of faith.

It wasn't until very recently that I've come across any bumps in this road. Some of the 'new age' Buddhist thought has rang true for me, as it sounds these Hindu beliefs ring true for you. It has caused me to question whether or not God truly is external to us, or whether God is internal. I see a polarity, although I'm not really convinced that one exists. Basically, it has finally come time for me to stop looking to the external world for answers, and to turn inward. The idea of As within, so without. That we create our world. It has challenged my belief that humans are anything but God. That we create our own heaven, and our own hell. That we manifest what we desire, whether consciously or unconsciously.

Everything I've experienced in the last... oh, say 6 months, has said that I am God. God is not separate from me. But this is in stark contrast to my prior mushroom experiences wherein God was separate from me. Guiding me, helping me along. So I'm pressing to get more clarity on this division... which is it? Is God me, entirely contained within who I am? Or is God external from me, overseeing me, and more than me. Or, as I think seems the most likely... is God both within and without. Part of me and yet separate.

I guess this was just another tangent for your thread, but in response to your dilemma, don't feel guilt. Even in the Christian vein, God's love is always present, even when you're not looking for it. If you turn your back on it, it is still present. It doesn't disappear, you're not damned to Hell in that instance. God is always ready and waiting to take you back, should you decide so. That is, unless you're unorthodox and believe that the guilt you feel is creating your own Hell, in which case, it is hardly eternal damnation :wink: Either way, you needn't feel any guilt about your search. Trust in the flow of life, that it is taking you where you need to go. And for God's sake, enjoy the ride! :cheers:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Illogical Belief Seemingly Logical [Re: Kickle]
    #10799138 -

Kickle said:
Everything I've experienced in the last... oh, say 6 months, has said that I am God. God is not separate from me. But this is in stark contrast to my prior mushroom experiences wherein God was separate from me. Guiding me, helping me along. So I'm pressing to get more clarity on this division... which is it? Is God me, entirely contained within who I am? Or is God external from me, overseeing me, and more than me. Or, as I think seems the most likely... is God both within and without. Part of me and yet separate.




You mean like, God resides within people?

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Re: Illogical Belief Seemingly Logical [Re: Fraggin]
    #10799814 -

Yeah... This is kind of my thought process ATM

God = consciousness
I am consciousness
You are consciousness
We are not separate at this point, we are both the same thing.
So God = Me and You
But Me and You are the same thing, so...
God = me


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Illogical Belief Seemingly Logical [Re: Fraggin] * 1
    #10800478 -

Whats your definition of God?

Seems to me your seeking a new religion.  I don't trust any religions as they have the same properties as any cult/brainwashing.  I see them as more a virus of the mind, passed through words.

Religions give us a secure box to sit in.  They claim to answer the biggest questions.  Its comforting to believe we have the answers.

That doesn't mean I don't believe that its possible for their to be higher beings or a collective being that all life or energy is part of.  I just don't accept that any human/book has the correct answer to give me.

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Re: Illogical Belief Seemingly Logical [Re: Fraggin]
    #10804248 -

Fraggin said:
I'm trying to determine if I should believe in the power of mantras, and Ganesha, Shiva, Krishna and determining the power of Shavaya. Is it worth while, or is it a waste of time. Am I sacrificing the possiblity of eternal salvation by defying the teachings of the bible and praying (mantras) to false Idols (ganesha).

It's a hell of a brain fuck trying to figure this all out and I thought I had a sliver of hope of abandoning this and returning to Christ exclusively when a friend told me of an urban legend I later found to be just a hoax, about NASA confirming that there was a lost day as indicated by the bible. I quickly realized this was completely false and I quickly resumed focus on my esoteric studies.

Are there others who have swayed form the path of pedagogy as I have to find more faith and belief in something that seems more real than the KJV of the history of spirituality and the world?



About risking eternal damnation, this helped me, but I also had Orthodox Christian background where the belief is that one is judged continuously and not after death, more of a karma principle, anyway:

(Quoting from memory, hence not exact word by word)

"If you think about adultery, you are actually committing adultery."
and
"God will judge you for who you are"

This in my logic combined to:

"If there is God as described in the bible, then one will be judged for kind of person one truly is and not for how many hours one spends in church, how Christian one clams to be, and going around thinking about sinning such as having sex (which was pretty common at that age) and not doing it because one calls one self Christian is not much of help when judgement comes e.t.c."

So by the logic above I understood that I will be judged for whom I truly am, and trying do deceive God if God exists by trying and put up a front that I am some one else, someone better will surely not fool God, hence there is no point of trying to outsmart God and just start being truly myself and accept judgement for that.

I have been living by that principle for many years, and still do, I still don't know if there is a God, any God, but at least I am free to explore, not afraid to deviate from Christianity.

I have been studying different religions for a long time now, and I can safely say that I don't know, I have no Idea about spiritual world or if it even exists, and that is a start, jumping from one "knowing" that God is this, to another "knowing" that God is that will just keep you jumping from religion to religion...

Things are as they are, and there are many ideas and religions that claim that they have an idea with which they can explain how things are, and if you can believe some idea, sure why not, it might give you pice of mind, but if you are open minded enough do deviate from Christian indoctrination the chances are slim...

But any Idea is just a simplification so that it can be explained and understood by our analytical left brain, because people have problem understanding if, how and what exists beyond this world...

Hence what I am trying to say is an advice from my experience:

Abandon belief, increase study. You showed interest in Hinduism, Buddhism. Add Taoism, Confucianism and Zen to the list and you will be occupied for a while.


--------------------
My blog with thoughts I get.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Drugs are paradoxical, you think you can solve all the worlds problems with philosophy, but if you drop a coin you will never fucking find it.


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Re: Illogical Belief Seemingly Logical [Re: Buben]
    #10804364 -

Thanks. That helps.
And there for a while, I started to accept myself, and felt in doing so, I was getting to know the same person that God knows me as. And the side effects were that just because of accpeting myself for who I was, the things I didn't like about myself previously started to slough off. Almost like, my dislike for these qualities kept them adhered to my personality.

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Re: Illogical Belief Seemingly Logical [Re: Fraggin]
    #10808102 -

"God" is the entity that feeds off of you, you created this entity in your mind, but that doesnt mean it isnt real, its real in your own mind, therefor it can have real affects on you. 

You shouldn't give what you think to be "God" all of your pride, and all of your self. You have to stop confusing the part of your own consciousness that you think has something to do with "God" speaking to you. Not saying that some intuition isnt divine, but you have to be careful you dont imprison your own mind via the subconscious.

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