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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Registered: 04/02/01
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difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptamine?
    #1046985 - 11/12/02 06:04 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

What is the difference? Is tryptose a sugar and tryptamine just the tryp base unit with an amine atached to it? Why do they both begin with Tryp?


Edited by cheesenoonions (11/12/02 08:45 PM)


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Re: difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptam [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #1048134 - 11/13/02 01:21 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Anybody? :frown: 


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Invisibledaussaulit
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Re: difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptam [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #1048195 - 11/13/02 01:49 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

this isn't a mushroom cultivation question.


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Invisiblematts
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[Re: daussaulit]
    #1048202 - 11/13/02 01:52 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)



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Invisibledaussaulit
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Re: difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptam [Re: matts]
    #1048301 - 11/13/02 02:28 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Tryptophan: C11H12N2O2
Tryptamine: C10H12N2
As for tryptose, can't find any information. from what I can tell, a trypt- has H12N2.


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Re: difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptam [Re: daussaulit]
    #1048749 - 11/13/02 08:48 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well heres the deal........ a friend has some tryptose phoshate broth he was thinking he could use for cultivation.  Broth is an agar additive, agar alone won't grow anything (maybe mold or fungus).  Anyway, tryptose is a sugar I am sure of it, tryptophan is an amino acid, and tryptamine ... well we all know about that.  As for tryptamine HCL, it is just the water soluble form of tryptamine.  If I remember correctly from organic chem, amines are not soluble in water, but their HCL form is.  I was just wondering how they relate because if tryptamine an tryptose are somehow related, and our favorite fungus can use tryptose for some kind of greater good, then great.  I've also read that in the presence of tryptamine HCL cubes will make a whole lot of psilocin but stop making psylocibin (spelling?) because of the lack of phosphate in the media.  Someone slap me if all this is crap.  So if all that were true tryptose phosphate broth could be a possible non-watched additive. :grin: Ofcourse the logical thing is to tell my friend to try it, but he will not know if they are truely more active or not.  Bioassay woud be the only way and since that isn't even a possibility....... Any thoughts.  This is all highly speculative.  I'm sure the broth wouldn't hurt, but will it help?  So you see, the relationship between the three is very important to this cultivation-related question.     


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptam [Re: daussaulit]
    #1048751 - 11/13/02 08:50 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

it has an OH group attached somwhere making it an alcohol/sugar,not sure of postioning of the OH. could be an intresting substrate additive.good luck.WR


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Re: difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptam [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #1049207 - 11/13/02 02:05 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Anybody else?


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Invisibledaussaulit
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Re: difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptam [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #1049763 - 11/13/02 05:59 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

now it is, but your original question had no reference to application. It looks like that has never been done, so try it and get back to us.


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Re: difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptam [Re: daussaulit]
    #1050004 - 11/13/02 07:38 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

You're right. So where in Tx are you from? A general location would be fine. I can understand if you don't want to give an exact location. Going back to the original question, has anyone used broth to make cakes and/or spawn?


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Anonymous

Re: difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptamine? [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #1050034 - 11/13/02 07:50 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

i've had to do alot of reading lately on many different subjects and my head is spinning from it all... but one of the things i remember reading recently in one of stamets original cultivating books was experiments done using simple carbohydrates/simple sugars in media and it's negative effect on "active" production... i don't know anything about tryptose other then it is used in bacteria culture media.

i stumbled on this at another website... i'm very curious about ur post and wondered if this method would be helpful or of interest to u at all in what ur looking into... here it is...

First off, the PF tryptamine cubensis variation works very well,except that the main head-wriggling compound produced is psilocin as opposed to the more shelf stable psilocybin.

As many may have already figured out, there just isn't enough phosphorus in the substrate to support psilocybin production...quite simply, it is used up. My answer to this was to add a small amount of phosphoric acid (H3PO4)to the water at the same time you add the tryptamine HCl, and adjust to neutral to wide-base Ph paper using NaOH.

I admit to a small amount of salt formation, but I haven't seen adverse results from the tiny bit of NaCl produced. A reminder is that many of the best hunting places in Fla. and Texas are saltmarsh and near-coastal lowlands.

I figure the organism is already accustomed to a small amount of salts in it's diet. This will give the mushie substrate enough Phosphorus to complete the conversion of psilocin to psilocybin in vivo. Hence, when you dry and store your mushrooms properly, the more stable psilocybin molecule is retained as opposed to psilocin, which oxidizes rather quickly.

does this information help u? please let me know.. peace


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Re: difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptam [Re: Anonymous]
    #1051084 - 11/14/02 01:16 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

that is the website I was referring to when I said I remembered reading that it needed phosphate. I was wrong, it said phosphorous, but I guess the phosphate ion would be a good source of phosphorous. Thank you... I only managed to find the web-site once so having it here is awesome. I was trying to get the same affect with tryptose that you get with tryptamine, and phosphorous with phosphate. The problem I see is that I do not know what the mycelia does with the tryptamine. If I knew chemically what it did, like say it cleaves the amine from the carbon skeleton and only uses part of it then maybe tryptose provides what it needs, or perhaps the amine is crucial for a reaction with some enzyme. ARRRRGHHH! I guess my friend will have to try it, but I still say there will be no way of knowing for sure if it worked other than "whoa my trip totally rocked" In which case it could be a placebo affect or a product of the imagination. Any thoughts?


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Offlineesin
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Re: difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptam [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #1051733 - 11/14/02 08:16 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well, if your tryptose broth does increase alkaloid production like tryptamine HCL supposedly does, I think it would be fairly easy to notice this dramatic increase in bioessay: A 1g trip is very different from a 3g trip.

I have read that tryptamine substrate produces fruits three times more potent than regular substrate fruits (i think i read also that it would make P. Cub. have 3% alkaloids which is more than 3 times).

Give it a try, post your results!


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OfflineTheta
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Re: difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptamine? [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #1051742 - 11/14/02 08:30 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

In reply to:

What is the difference? Is tryptose a sugar and tryptamine just the tryp base unit with an amine atached to it? Why do they both begin with Tryp?



In organisms, tryptamine is formed by the decarboxylation (removal of carboxyl group) of l-tryptophan. It can be said that tryptophan is the precursor of tryptamine, tryptamine is then the precursor of psilocybin.

Here is another post to look at - Question for any biochemists out there...


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Anonymous

Re: difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptam [Re: esin]
    #1051772 - 11/14/02 08:59 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

isn't tryptamine HCL a compound that would draw undesired attention?


i also had this set aside....

http://www.fanaticus.com/gartz.htm


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Re: difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptam [Re: Theta]
    #1051890 - 11/14/02 10:18 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

That's a crazy link. Tryptamine at health food stores!? given this post, I should learn more about tryptose. Since it doesn't sound like a simple sugar, (glucose, dextrose) it may not be able to enter the cell. The question now is what enzyme is responsible for digestion of macromolecules and what will it do to the tryptose? I will tell my friend to try it...... anybody work with broth to cultivate? Should my friend just replace BRF with T-phosphate powder? Or do you think he shouldjust add alittle to the spawn, compost/manure, or casing? Oh yeah I am just wondering, I always hear that shrooms go from .1% to 3.3% alkaloid content.... that seems like it is 30 times more potent (not three) to me. Am i doing the math wrong or what!


Edited by cheesenoonions (11/14/02 02:25 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptam [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #1057785 - 11/16/02 10:10 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)



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Offlinelvleph
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Re: difference b/w tryptose tryptophan and tryptam [Re: Anonymous]
    #1057906 - 11/16/02 12:18 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

If tryptose has the extra OH making a alcohol, which I don't doubt that it does. Sounds like you know more about O-chem then I. Anyway, I was reading about someone that used yeast in there liquid medium of malt, dextrose, and water. They said that it grew more mycelium than the standard malt and dextrose mix. Since yeast produces and alcohol when given sugar, I would assume that alcohol must have some sort of beficial properties for the shroom. So I say go for it.


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