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Offlinethe spiral
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Tryptophan?
    #1423004 - 04/02/03 01:34 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

So there are these two huge bottles of 500 mg tryptophan pills sitting in my kitchen. They're in what look to be prescription bottles. Would these be useful as a substrate additive, to enhance potency? Or is this not the right chemical..?


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Offlinethe spiral
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Re: Tryptophan? [Re: the spiral]
    #1423061 - 04/02/03 02:10 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

hm, after a little reasearch, it seems that tryptamine HCL is what is really wanted here. Is anyone aware of a possible method to convert one to the other?


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Invisiblepsyphon
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Re: Tryptophan? [Re: the spiral]
    #1423062 - 04/02/03 02:10 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

A friend of mine was thinking about the same thing.  In the famous document that seems to be the source for the tryptamine threads, it is mentioned that there was a previous study done with tryptophan.  They conclude that tryptamine is better but imply that tryptophan works also.

This got my friend thinking.  Tryptophan becomes tryptamine by decarboxylation or decarboxylase enzymes within an organism.  This must be responsible for a bit of the CO2 that's released from the fungi, although that's probably irrelevant.

The thing that my friend was really thinking about was whether the organisms present in dung either before or after pasteurization have tryptophan carboxylase enzymes.  He's pretty sure that the before oraganisms do, but wasn't able to find information on decarboxylase in actinomycetes.

His idea was that tryptophan could be added to pre-pasteurized dung and left enough time for the organisms to decarboxylate it or added after pastuerization so that during colonization, the actinomycetes and hopefully the mycelium also, would decarboxylate it.  (If added before pasteurization, one would have to be careful about soaking since the tryptophan could go into solution in the water and be washed out of the dung.)  Either way, you'd most likely end up with a mix of tryptophan and tryptamine but he thinks it would work a lot better than just adding tryptophan to brf cakes or something.

Another thing to think about:  Its been speculated that a phosphorous additive like triple phosphorus could help with converting the additional psilocin that's produced into psilocybin, which would be desired since the latter is much more stable.

Also, don't forget that this might play hell with the pH so some adjustment should be necessary.  It'd be great though if the tryptophan and phosphorous balanced out, but I have absolutely no idea, probably not, oh well.

So my friend says go for it, maybe give his idea a try :wink:  and if anyone has information on tryptophan decarboxylase in organisms present in farm animal dung or in higher fungi, my friend would be very interested and appriciative.   


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- Marcel Proust

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Invisiblepsyphon
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Re: Tryptophan? [Re: the spiral]
    #1423074 - 04/02/03 02:19 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

My first reply was to your first reply, this reply is to your second.  Search around  the hive for decarboxylate, decarboxylation, etc and check this rhodium document.

After much reading, it seems that pure spearmint oil in an organic solvent, refluxed with the tryptophan could catalyze the decarboxylation and might be adaptable to otc "kitchen-type" methods.

:smile: 


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"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."
- Marcel Proust

I wish you all ceaselessly flowing moments of happiness.


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Offlinethe spiral
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Re: Tryptophan? [Re: psyphon]
    #1423085 - 04/02/03 02:25 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

thanks, i just stumbled across that rhodium doc myself and was about to post it here :smile: 

this deserves some attention

if i understand it correctly, tryptophan can simply be heated to convert it to tryptamine.  can this then simply be added to the substrate, being careful about pH?


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"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." - Carl Sagan


Edited by the spiral (04/02/03 02:30 PM)


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Re: Tryptophan? [Re: the spiral]
    #1423150 - 04/02/03 02:49 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

if you take l-tryptophan with cubes, it makes the trip more like weilli.


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-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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Invisiblepsyphon
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Re: Tryptophan? [Re: the spiral]
    #1423156 - 04/02/03 02:51 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

My friend was thinking about simply heating it but it doesn't break down until 450F and doesn't melt until 545F ( scroll down to the question about heat) Also it might not predictably break down into tryptamine, it might just be essentially destroyed.

The reason for the reflux setup, is that these conditions catalyze the reaction and allow it to occur at lower temperatures. CO2 is evolved and the reaction is run until no more CO2 comes out. Very likely then, you have a good quantity of tryptamine in your solution, which you could salt out with HCL and separate. Then you have tryptamine HCL.

Its a little intimidating, that's why my friend had the ideas about letting the organisms do the work. But it might be possible to use an otc organic solvent, spearmint oil, and tryptophan in a crock pot with an inverted lid filled with ice, to attempt a kitchen reflux setup. Might being the key word.


--------------------
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."
- Marcel Proust

I wish you all ceaselessly flowing moments of happiness.


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Offlinecomario2
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Re: Tryptophan? [Re: Raadt]
    #1423195 - 04/02/03 03:02 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

sorry raadt, i never had weiliis - could you say more of the experience?


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Tryptophan? [Re: comario2]
    #1423254 - 04/02/03 03:26 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

more vibrant, different all together. I cannot explain. I had some dried specimen sent to me at one point while i was "in amsterdam". They offered a much different vibe, different visually as well as mentally.. it's very hard to explain - perhaps someone else would be better suited to explain.


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Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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OfflineRemy
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Re: Tryptophan? [Re: Raadt]
    #1423366 - 04/02/03 04:07 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

having tried both weiliis and cubes, I will say this. Weilii's put the GRR in Groovy. Weilii's offer probably one of the smoothest, comfortable trips of any mushroom i have tried. Cubes make me feel like my insides have been rearranged like a jigsaw puzzle that isn't quite right. Weiliis provide a comfortin warmth, and the visuals just kind of melt together like choclate syrup on a 3 scoop sunday from Baskin Robins. There is no comparison  :grin: :grin: :grin:


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Offlinefree
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Re: Tryptophan? [Re: the spiral]
    #12866890 - 07/08/10 01:41 PM (6 years, 4 months ago)

Hi mate. This is my first time on the shroomery,so hello to all.

The whole decarbox of tryptophan as described by "the student" is very sound and remarkably easy so I have heard;)  A friend of mine has been studying the potential use of tryptamine as an insecticide and needed a cheap source.  Tryptophan costs about £20 for 100g,nice one.  The students version deserves a read and slight changes like using MEK(few mills) in your turps works just as well so I have heard.The key thing obviously is the required temp needed to kick off the co2.  When it comes to reaction time,9hrs with MEK was needed till all co2 had pissed off.  When it comes to the clean up,it is so deliciously easy(so I have heard yet again,sigh).  My friend found that the best  solvent for crystallisation was infact water.  How easy.  As for chloroform,not entirely neccesary.Zippo lighterfluid will do the job :wink:    Distilled vinegar is added to the product after the turps has been poured off.Then it is filtered.In my friends experience, the tryptamine precipitates before it has even left the filter.  A bit of acid/base clean up is achieved perfectly well in water.  Tryptamine phospate crystallises slightly easier than HCL,but neither are problematic.Tryptamine as  a salt, in my mates experience,just requires a few hours in the freezer to get the message, and is filtered whilst cold.The filtrate can be kept of course and put in the freezer again for a second smaller crop of crystals.    All of his has been from the work of someone else,but I hope that the lack of chloroform etc in the method can make it more accessable to experimenteurs who dont like the idea of pissing about with bleach and acetone to make chloroform.I didnt think recrystallisation with acid water would work but how convenient :wink:. The yield is ok,and the price is right.    I am hoping other people will be tempted to experiment with Tryptamine as a natural bio defence for non edible but prize plants. 
One love
free


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