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Offlinemichealjackstyle
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Registered: 12/23/04
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tryptamine inriched substrate
    #3546304 - 12/27/04 01:50 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/index/the/default/par/7953

(The discovery by Dr. Gartz that adding 3-(2-Aminoethyl)indole (tryptamine) could cause dramatic increases in psilocin content)

http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/7936 a similar idea this one using Desmanthus Illinoesis (bundleflower)

I've always wondered about going further with this idea of using precursors in the substrate, what i'd like to see is using like a gram of DMT, AMT, 4-ACO-DET, DIPT, DPT etc etc i know these are not precursors, but it seems atleast the DMT would work being the DMT containing bundleflower worked i dunno any thoughts? anyone tried anything similar?


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: michealjackstyle]
    #3547599 - 12/27/04 11:59 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Dr Shulgin is your friend! So before we start enriching the substrate with different tryptamines lets research it a bit!

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal16.shtml

The interesting part from this argument is this

"Some fascinating studies have been done in Germany where the metabolically active mycelium of some Psilocybe species have been administered diethyltryptamine as a potential diet component. Normally, this mushroom species dutifully converts N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) to psilocin, by introducing a 4-hydroxyl group into the molecule by something that is probably called an indole 4-hydroxylase by the biochemists. You put DMT in, and you get 4-hydroxy-DMT out, and this is psilocin. Maybe if you put Mickey Mouse in, you would get 4-hydroxy-Mickey Mouse out. It is as if the mushroom psyche didn't really care what it was working with, it was simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any tryptamine it came across. It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, not a material found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET) a potent drug also not known in nature. This is the title drug of this commentary. What a beautiful burr to thrust into the natural versus synthetic controversy. If a plant (a mushroom mycelium in this case) is given a man-made chemical, and this plant converts it, using its natural capabilities, into a product that had never before been known in nature, is that product natural? What is natural? This is the stuff of many long and pointless essays."

Hmmmm...It would be of no use adding 4-ACO-DET....Also keep in mind that those chemicals (called research chemicals) have lately been under watch of the DEA


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Offlineskullfarmer1979
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Registered: 05/02/04
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Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: michealjackstyle]
    #3547642 - 12/27/04 12:11 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

scroll down to the bottom of the page to the search fourm blank and type in "dpt".


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I TASTE THE WREAKAGE OF CRUMBLING FACES,I KNOW THE PALE THING IN THE DARKEST OF PLACES. -DAX RIGGS-

get the most out of life,listen to ACID BATH!!!!


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: Psiloman]
    #3548126 - 12/27/04 02:57 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I've thought about adding mimosa hostilis root bark to a substrate and seeing if their is a notable increase in potency.  Here are some thoughts on it...

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/extraction_guide1/dmt_extraction_guide1.shtml

This is a DMT extraction guide that I've used before with some sucess.  I have modified it slightly in practise to eliminate some of the lye residue, but it will work for my purpose.  It states that the % of NN-DMT found in MHRB is .57%.  This has been near to what I have found doing extractions and other playing around with MHRB so we'll use it as a working number for this theory. Any contradicting information will of course be considered if it's posted here and change to my theory will be made accordingly. 

Lets say that we are working with a sample of 400 grams, almost a pound.
400 grams x .0057 = 2.28grams of NN-DMT.

Now, lets assume that we'll be using a full 400 grams for our experiment.  This will mean that adding 400 grams to our substrate will be adding approximately 2.28 grams of NN-DMT as well as an unknown amount of other tryptamines that could possibly be converted into psychoactive tryptamines via the 4-ho' action of the mycelia.  If all 2.28 grams were converted into psilocin, and a tray was used that produced 4 ounces total (cased compost/straw +MHRB), that would be an addition of more than a half a gram of psilocin per ounce of mushrooms.  This would seem to be a MASSIVE increase in the psilocin content.  I'm sure that some saturation point would be reached in this stage, but if any increase is noticed I think it would be worthwhile.  Maybe using p. viridis or canary reed grass would be a more cost effective method of doing this.

If someone wanted to pay pal me the $ that i'd need for a lb of MHRB, I'd do this experiment and gladly share the results :smile:


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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Offlineskullfarmer1979
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Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: SoopaX]
    #3552128 - 12/28/04 12:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

the above post would be a prime example of DRUG ABUSE! please don't feed your shrooms 2.28grams DMT.smoke it!! :yesnod:


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I TASTE THE WREAKAGE OF CRUMBLING FACES,I KNOW THE PALE THING IN THE DARKEST OF PLACES. -DAX RIGGS-

get the most out of life,listen to ACID BATH!!!!


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Offlinemikl
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Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: skullfarmer1979]
    #3553060 - 12/28/04 05:02 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

If you have DMT & shrooms, who do you need them to combine? Enjoy them as they are! EACH IS ABLE TO PROVIDE ENOUGH OOMPH TO PUT YOU INTO ORBIT!


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MAY YOU BE NURTURED BY THE FRUITS OF YOUR LABOR.


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Offlinegsmith
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Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: mikl]
    #3556239 - 12/29/04 08:14 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

edit: misread... my mistake


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Edited by gsmith (12/29/04 08:15 AM)


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Offlinelsd_freak
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Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: gsmith]
    #3563198 - 12/30/04 11:49 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i must agree, why would you want to convert DMT into psilocin, i'd take the DMT over psilocin any day. Why not just add tryptamine hcl into your substrate, i've read many articles of people adding around 100mg of tryptamine hcl into there's and have noticed about a 3x stronger shroom.


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Offlinejeff01
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Registered: 12/17/04
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Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: lsd_freak]
    #3563783 - 12/31/04 01:47 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

nice stuff here


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"impossible to walk in this muck"


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OfflinePsiloman
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A Suggestion Using Yopo! [Re: jeff01]
    #3564400 - 12/31/04 08:26 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

So the talk is on supplementing the substrate with tryptamines...

Why not try to make a grow on yopo seeds? supplement cakes with crushed,pulverised yopo seeds,case them and see what happens.

They are loaded with tryptamines,plus everyone seems to be giving them away after trying to insulfate them for 1-2 times....So many yopo seeds go to waste ,or used once or twice just for novelty....Get a nice amount and get em in the substrate!


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InvisibleSoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: lsd_freak]
    #3571953 - 01/02/05 06:50 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

If you show me where I can purchase 2.28grams of tryptamine HCL without having the DEA knock my door down, I'd consider it. As I can obtain MHRB (or p. viridis) quite cheaply, why not use it?


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Offlinerdnp2035
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Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: SoopaX]
    #3572206 - 01/02/05 07:35 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

MHRB would certainly provide a clean source of nn-DMT. Plus, the fine powered it grinds into would be easy to mix dirrectly into a substrait. I don't think you would need to do an extraction first to get results.
Yopo might not work as well. The primary tryptamine is 5-ho-dmt, it has already attached a group to the dmt.
I'm interested in the idea. If one could grow mushrooms with 3X potency, each mushroom goes that much farther. So you make 1/3rd the grow effort.
Too bad about the research chemical bust. I dreamed of custom mushroom cocktails. Creating a substrait that produces percise, evenly distributed ratios of say 4-ho-dpt and 4-ho-det, along side the psilocin and psilocybin.


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: rdnp2035]
    #3573461 - 01/03/05 12:36 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Hm, well, how do you think you could add MHRB or leaf to the substrate? I don't know how well nn-DMT would stand up to pressure cooking and if you pasteurized it some of it would surely be lost in the liquid.


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: SoopaX]
    #3575679 - 01/03/05 06:42 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Hmmmmm....

If i am correct yopo contains bufotenine (5-HO-DMT) ,N,N DMT as well as 5-MEO-DMT.

Now,we do not know if the enzyme would proceed and hydroxylate 5 substituted tryptamines.If it doesnt,tough luck,the experiment is a failure and yes some resources were lost (as with any experiment).The extra DMT though from the seeds could be hydroxylated at 4 position to become psilocin.

If they are indeed hydroxylated...Well,i dont know but you would have in the mushrooms 4-HO-5-MEO-DMT and also 4,5-OH-DMT. Now...I dont know of the psychoactive properties of those but they sound interesting.However hard i have search i didnt see even one mention of their synthesis and their effect (i also posed this question to Shulgin to no effect).

So...Ho much do those yopo seeds cost? If one is inclined to spend the money on some mimosa,would another be inclined to spend the money on yopo and try a Yopo Flour TeK?


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Offlineshroommachine
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Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: Psiloman]
    #3587399 - 01/06/05 03:59 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It is my understanding thet bufotine is non-psychoactive. I have an article on toad licking, which dispels the myth of bufotine as a psychedelic.


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And I said, I don't care if they lay me off either, because I told, I told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I'm, I'm quitting, I'm going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they've moved my desk ...four times already this year and I used to be over by the window and I could see the squirrels, and they were merry, but then, they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much and I kept the staples for the Swingline stapler and its not okay because if they take my stapler then I'll set the building on fire.


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Offlinepsilocybeen
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Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: shroommachine]
    #3587785 - 01/06/05 07:02 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I've actually been interested in this project for quite some time. I think that a biochemistry experiment is in order to identify the enzyme involved in this process.

My though is this: A standard grind 'em, find 'em approach with gross biochemistry. What I'm missing is a quick and easy assay for the presence of enzymatic activity. Toward this end, I'm thinking that a really easy assay would be a color change.

My Question is this: Does anyone know a tryptamine analog which would change colors under hydroxylation at the 4 position? This could be colorless to colored or the reverse.

With this tool in hand, we could isolate the enzyme and start using it as a tool for more closer study. Any ideas?


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Invisiblesafrole
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Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: psilocybeen]
    #3589201 - 01/06/05 04:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

problem with using roots and barks ground up is that p.c. may not have enough lignacious enzyme used to break down and metabolise woody products. could be wrong, but a more suitable method would be to add a freebase or simple salt to the substrate.


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Offlineradio879
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Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: safrole]
    #3723527 - 02/03/05 06:48 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Wow, in all these years scanning the shroomery, NO ONE has done anything like this YET?? WHY??

I've grown mushrooms years ago, but lately i've been into the DMT extractions.  It is ridiculously EASY! 1kg of MHRB goes for as low as 95 bucks.  I can start with some bark, and end up with nice shiny DMT in just hours..without much effort at all.  Someday when I do grow some mushrooms, the first thing I would do is add some DMT to it.  Also i'm not sure whether just putting ground up bark in the jar is better or worse than, just doing a few water 'extractions' on the bark, and add that water to a jar.  Yeah..heh.. extracting DMT makes growing shrooms look like a very hard thing to do. (comparitively)

Also i'm real suprised no one has posted about actually trying adding some DPT, DIPT, MIPT, etc.  I'm sure some of you also have a 'stash' of old research chems around?  I know a friend, I don't think he ever visits this board but he has plenty of DIPT to play around with and does plan on trying this.  Hmm, alpha-MT, don't see why that one wouldn't hydroxylate on the 4 position/4-HO-AMT, but who knows.

I have heard of one person who has tried 4-HO-DPT, made by a chemist, and the oral dose was 70mg, which is rather high, i'm a little skeptical if it really was just DPT (maybe an maoi mixed) since he said the effects were real close to DPT unlike the big changes you see with DIPT/4-HO-DIPT (or MIPT, DET).  But who knows, I got a little DPT left which I don't care for really myself but i'd add it to a jar :smile:.

Really, all these years, so many experiments, i'm just suprised no one on here has tried these things yet.


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OfflinePrankster239
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Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: radio879]
    #3723553 - 02/03/05 07:21 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Here is an nice try with tryptamine. Link is in german


Zauberpilz


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: tryptamine inriched substrate [Re: SoopaX]
    #3729215 - 02/04/05 08:49 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

fff


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Edited by Zen Peddler (02/02/07 06:43 AM)


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