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Inherent problem with "self-improvement" * 1
    #10299478 -

I'm one of those kinds of people who likes to read inspirational shit, or stuff that gets you to think positively. I use affirmations, and I'm always trying to get negative thoughts out of my head.

But I think there is a inherent problem with seeking help through books, psychologists, internet websites, etc. And that is: Doesn't the fact that you are seeking help reaffirm the fact that you aren't the way you want to be?

What I mean by this is....if you go through the whole day telling yourself stuff like, "I am a good person, people like me." or "I am outgoing and confident."

The simple fact that you are telling yourself these things means that you think you aren't those things. Otherwise why else would you be saying them in the first place? Should there be some point when you no longer need to tell yourself these things to feel good and confident about yourself? What if you already are confident in yourself, but you don't feel it because you still go through all of these routines. You still feel like you have to "fix yourself", but in reality you don't need it!

Some people read self-help book after self-help book, maybe they really are improving, maybe they aren't. But at some point it just becomes a habit. "I have to read this to feel better about myself." Or you keep going to a psychologist and you get used to hearing what he has to say and taking his help, that you can no longer figure it out on your own. Should there be a point when you cut yourself off? When you just accept yourself how you are?

How are you supposed to know when you are fixed?


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Word to your mom.

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Re: Inherent problem with "self-improvement" [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #10299774 -

Not really. Would it wrong to say "I am good at piano," if you are? Saying it doesn't mean it isn't true. Saying things like "I am happy and confident," is only really used to cement that attitude in your mind. Because a happy and confident person can say "I am happy and confident," presumably saying it will bolster happiness and confidence so that you're just reaffirming a fact (being "the happy and confident person).

Eventually you will just start living it, though. I think it's important to realize that you won't achieve perfection, either. Many people, it seems, expect to be happy 100% of the time after saying "I am happy" 40 times a day for two weeks. Which adds another problem....change doesn't come quickly...especially if you are completely turning around your life. Unfortunately it seems like the "worst cases" flip-flop the most and expect instant productivity....going from book to book, as you pointed out. How many times have any of these people read through one particular book that sparked their interest, gave it good thought, acted on it for a month or more. Hopefully they will have scrutinized this technique to its fullest before they find out that nothing has changed. Then how do they react? Violently? Arrrgg nothing works! (back in these same loop) It's possible they didn't do it right by not following the directions (but they think they did) Or maybe they didn't take enough time, or whatever.

The best thing you can do if you are interested in self-improvement, is accept who you are, but realize that you can change. Accepting who you are is not accepting how things will be for the rest of your life and cementing your current state into your future life.

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Re: Inherent problem with "self-improvement" [Re: fazdazzle]
    #10299972 -

I've thought about this. I regularly ponder how to improve myself, but try and take a "onestep at a time" approach.

If you are always learning, and maybe improving. Then why complain.

To address your post though.

I am never satisfied - i always want to improve a little bit more, and admittedly i am far from perfect. I do not know if i would stop wanting to better myself if i achieved perfection... Its irrelevent really.

Trying to be a better person, is good i think - if you are doing it for the right reasons.

Fazdazzle's post was brilliant.


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GO OUTSIDE.

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Re: Inherent problem with [Re: fazdazzle]
    #10299975 -

I COMPLETELY agree. [edit: w/ OP, not fazdazzle]
I've thought the same thing about self-help shit for years, and that's why I stay the fuck away from it.
Setting a goal for who you want to be creates a distinct mental separation between that goal and your present self -- it concretely defines you as NOT the person you want to be.

So I say fuck all that -- don't have goals.
I don't have a person I want to be.
What I do is just keep tabs on my behavior on a daily basis, and observe which things I know I can improve.
It may not sound like a huge distinction, but it's all about perspective -- if you seek to maximize your rate of self improvement NOW as opposed to becoming a better person LATER, it makes all the difference.

Let's face it -- if you set a goal for who you want to be, you're gonna be off target.
You're gonna be working towards a fabrication which, though it may be mostly accurate if you're lucky, will never perfectly align with who you really are.
Personal growth, like any growth, is an organic process.
You'll never be able to predict the final shape of a tree from looking at the sapling, and if you try to force the sapling to grow how you want, you'll only end up stunting it -- and we're the same way.

So don't try to figure out who you want to be -- it's unhealthy AND you're going to be wrong anyway.
Instead, pay attention to the now -- IN THE MOMENT, do what seems best. Make a better decision than you might have some time ago when you weren't paying attention to yourself.
Doing this will maximize your instantaneous rate of self improvement, which will without fail maximize your self improvement over time.

Edited by laserpig (05/07/09 12:45 AM)

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Re: Inherent problem with [Re: laserpig]
    #10300099 -

that sounds like a good book - 'the book of self-improvement and why this search will never end because of the way we think of self-improvement haha.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: Inherent problem with "self-improvement" [Re: BrainChemistry] * 2
    #10302191 -

BrainChemistry said:
Some people read self-help book after self-help book, maybe they really are improving, maybe they aren't. But at some point it just becomes a habit. "I have to read this to feel better about myself." Or you keep going to a psychologist and you get used to hearing what he has to say and taking his help, that you can no longer figure it out on your own. Should there be a point when you cut yourself off? When you just accept yourself how you are?

How are you supposed to know when you are fixed?


I would avoid thinking of goals as an indicator of some part of you that has to be 'fixed.'

There is no reason you can't accept where you are now while you improve your life.

The thing is, no matter who you think you are, you're wrong.  A thought about who you are is just your ego.  And trying to 'fix' one's ego is like trying to build a house of cards in the wind.  Utterly impossible.  IMO, the ego is a survival mechanism that keeps us alive by dissatisfying us -- making us think some crucial part of us is missing and must be obtained -- so that we always have the life-sustaining drive to eat more, accumulate more, control more and fuck more.

I don't want to get all esoteric or spiritual-sounding, but who you are is just not something that can be pinned down through any kind of analysis or thinking.  'You' is a series of transient states that have no concrete basis.  If you're in a good mood, you could call yourself a happy person, but when you're in a bad mood, you could call yourself a sad person, and both would sound true in the moment but be ultimately incorrect.  You are not your passing circumstances or thoughts.

People often define themselves by the collection of thoughts they have about themselves (I am a shy person, I'm middle class, I'm a liberal, I'm an accountant) while all those are just conditional qualities of their current situation.

Identify that collection of qualities as your situation, not as yourself.  If there is something you don't like about your situation (health, income, habits), then why not change it?  But don't confuse your situation with who you are. 

For example, if you weigh 390 pounds and you smoke menthols, you'll have trouble accepting your situation because you know you're letting yourself down.  You know you could create a better experience.  But that doesn't need to translate to disliking or rejecting yourself.

I've been spending a lot more time working on goals recently, and I find it makes me accept where I am even more.  And I guess it's because the things that are truly important (my health, my relationships, my habits, my method of livelihood) are no longer being neglected.  The nagging feeling of "I don't like my life" is gone because I know I'm not being irresponsible to myself, as long as I'm improving my situation towards a balance with my values.

I think there is a lot of self-help junkyism out there.  A lot of people are constantly consuming self-help literature because they get an emotional high from reading it, even though they don't act any different as a result.  They will feel a greater and greater sense of disillusionment and urgency until they take responsibility for creating a life situation that enriches them.

You can't really accept who you are because you can never define who you are.  But you can decide to accept where you are, even if you think you should change something about that.  I think it's much easier to make progress towards where you want to be if you accept where you are first, but you don't need to.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: Inherent problem with "self-improvement" [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #10303639 -

I wholeheartedly agree. WhiskeyClone, that was great advice. I feel like I just finished reading a self-help book. :smile2:


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funky ass music: Planet of Dinosaurs // Rich Whiskey

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Re: Inherent problem with "self-improvement" [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #10305331 -

BrainChemistry said:
I'm one of those kinds of people who likes to read inspirational shit, or stuff that gets you to think positively. I use affirmations, and I'm always trying to get negative thoughts out of my head.

But I think there is a inherent problem with seeking help through books, psychologists, internet websites, etc. And that is: Doesn't the fact that you are seeking help reaffirm the fact that you aren't the way you want to be?

What I mean by this is....if you go through the whole day telling yourself stuff like, "I am a good person, people like me." or "I am outgoing and confident."

The simple fact that you are telling yourself these things means that you think you aren't those things. Otherwise why else would you be saying them in the first place? Should there be some point when you no longer need to tell yourself these things to feel good and confident about yourself? What if you already are confident in yourself, but you don't feel it because you still go through all of these routines. You still feel like you have to "fix yourself", but in reality you don't need it!

Some people read self-help book after self-help book, maybe they really are improving, maybe they aren't. But at some point it just becomes a habit. "I have to read this to feel better about myself." Or you keep going to a psychologist and you get used to hearing what he has to say and taking his help, that you can no longer figure it out on your own. Should there be a point when you cut yourself off? When you just accept yourself how you are?

How are you supposed to know when you are fixed?


For a person in the situation you described I'd hope the first self-help thing they did was to realise that they weren't broken and that seeking help is not a sign of weakness but rather an intelligent strategy looking outside of yourself for information which will in some way make a difference, even if that difference is trying to keep things the same, in other words making a change away from seeking further change.

Now on the other hand, imagine if someone continually seeks ways of improving physically, does this mean that they aren't physically the way they want to be? Maybe, but I think it's just as likely that there are other motivations other than the presupposition that there was something still wrong or that anything was wrong to begin with.


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Re: Inherent problem with "self-improvement" [Re: Mufungo]
    #10307192 -

allot of good points in this thread.


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LAGM v.2.024 Grow log

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