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Gay Marriage thoughts
    #10181517 -

I don't really care what people are doing on a private level, I mean, I used to play guitar with a gay dude, the gay thing doesn't bother me.... but in all reality, come on, what's with the 'we have to have the right to get married' all of the sudden?

And I say 'all of the sudden' because there has been rather frequent evidence of homosexuality within many different cultures for thousands of years without them trying to intermingle with Christian and other religious concepts of union.  Why now?  Isn't this really just nit-picking?


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Friend- "Dude, A lot of people thought you were a snob in High School"

ME- "What? I didn't even talk to those people"

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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: mozartvicious]
    #10181670 -

It's really just about basic civil rights. It should have nothing to do with religious beliefs.

The real problem is that every heterosexual always says the same thing "I have a gay friend, I'm not a homophobic, it doesn't bother me"
But, when you see a gay couple making out in public you'll see how "accepting" people really are. I understand it's hard for a straight male to watch something like that take place. Myself included, but it's not my conscious decision to feel uncomfortable, it's the society I grew up in that taught me that something was wrong with that. Even though I know there isn't.

It would be the same thing if homosexuals ruled the world. Seeing a man and woman kiss would seem unnatural.

Perhaps Thomas Jefferson had already for seen this occurrence when he wrote the Declaration of Independence. But if you truly believe every human being has certain inalienable rights, then how can you dispute the fact that gays have the right to wed.

I do however believe that this will tip the scales on divorce statistics, cause there's no way all those men won't cheat on each other. LoL


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I would turn on the tv, but its so embarrassing
to see all the other people, i dont know what they mean
it was magic at first, when they spoke without sound
but now this world is gonna hurt, you better turn that thing down
turn it around

you cant blame me, sure the killer was my son
but i didnt teach him to pull the trigger of the gun
its the killing on his tv screen
you cant blame me, its those images he seen

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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: twboss]
    #10181750 -

Well, I've seen men making out before and it didn't bother me anymore than seeing straight people kissing in public.... really what bothers me is seeing ugly people kissing.

I mean, yeah yeah, Civil rights, I don't think we should be  setting these people on fire at witch hunting trials, I just think it's unnecessary to push the marriage thing... Christ, even Chris, 'The gay dude I know' says it's pretty ridiculous for homos to demand marriage because it's "Their" thing (meaning straight people's thing) and he's quite comfortable blending in and having their own homosexual subculture which for the most part is undisturbed and unthreatened by mainstream society in such our urban setting.


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Friend- "Dude, A lot of people thought you were a snob in High School"

ME- "What? I didn't even talk to those people"

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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: mozartvicious]
    #10181896 -

There is no validation for the restriction of marriage to straight people that does'nt stem from ignorance, discrimination, and the imposition of selfish belief over the will of others(the latter exemplified by the friend of mozartvicious).  I am a gay dude who has absolutely no desire to get married even if it were completely legal for me to do so.  However, I wholeheartedly support the rights of another gay couple to marry granted that this is their consensus desire.  While I feel that us of the "alternative lifestyle" will still face rampant discrimination after given the universal right to marry, it would certainly be a step in the right direction.


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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: lavod]
    #10181962 -

I don't see why anyone would want to get married in the first place really, but anyway... I respect your beliefs, but I just think society has enough problems and that a dramatic shift in how our "culture's" family structure is composed would only add to the confusion and chaos.
I personally prefer a Mother Father family structure, but if it were to broaden to a wider spectrum, as it's evidently happening, I think these steps would best be taken when our society evolves a little more and the  current strife we're in subsides considerably.

Oh, and Universal gay marriage?  You're dreaming if you think cultures like those in the middle east will be coming around anytime soon. :wink:


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Friend- "Dude, A lot of people thought you were a snob in High School"

ME- "What? I didn't even talk to those people"

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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: mozartvicious]
    #10182069 -

I was most certainly speaking hypothetically when I said "universal rights to gay marriage".  Waiting for our society to evolve a little more?  That seems like an easily contrived excuse for those who, as stated before, value selfish belief over the rights of others.  While expectations of chaos and confusion could be valid for say, anarchy which would effect all on a personal level, when the marriage laws are based on discrimination, all chaos and confusion would come about from the disruption of restrictive morals.  A similar parallel could be derived from drug prohibition, but this is still extreme in comparison to the gay marriage issue.  And I state "issue" with rolled eyes as it is only such due to, repeating myself here, selfish belief over the right of others.  It is a war against individuality.


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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: mozartvicious]
    #10182078 -

mozartvicious said:
there has been rather frequent evidence of homosexuality within many different cultures for thousands of years without them trying to intermingle with Christian and other religious concepts of union.  Why now?


Constitution, 1st Amendment.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: mozartvicious]
    #10182127 -

mozartvicious said:
I don't really care what people are doing on a private level, I mean, I used to play guitar with a gay dude, the gay thing doesn't bother me.... but in all reality, come on, what's with the 'we have to have the right to get married' all of the sudden?

And I say 'all of the sudden' because there has been rather frequent evidence of homosexuality within many different cultures for thousands of years without them trying to intermingle with Christian and other religious concepts of union.  Why now?  Isn't this really just nit-picking?



Does it really matter?


I suspect its because their is far more tolerance and acceptance now as opposed to in the past and they think they can get away with it, or have got a shot at it.




Either way, whether you feel marriage is desirable isn't really relevant- not that you were saying it is.


And what is this intermingling with christian concepts of unions about?  Your going to have to explain that one to me.  In the US anyways, gays have no right to religious recognition whatsoever, however; people of a particular sex do have a right to not be discriminated upon on that basis- among other things.



Granting a marriage license has nothing to do with religion, and if religious folks were under some allusion that the state is god's actor or something they need to check their bible,, or whatever.

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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #10182158 -

^Yes, do you also think that the African Americans were pushing for a black president in the 1840's?  Changing times.  Not too long ago, homosexuals were more concerned with not getting the shit beat out of them(still a concern today mind you, but far less so than yesteryear) than rights to marriage.


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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: lavod]
    #10182332 -

Please don't compare homosexuality to being black. It's hardly the same fight... who do you think had one of the highest percentage of opposition to gay marriage? Blacks and latinos. Why? Because saying "Boo-hoo i can't get the term married slapped on me and my partner" is hardly the same as "I can't even go in the same building"

Honestly, I'm fine with having gays get all the same legal rights as a marriage in a civil union or whatever, but don't call it marriage.


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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: johnm214]
    #10182338 -

Quote:
Granting a marriage license has nothing to do with religion


If only the rest of the country agreed with you.


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: zouden]
    #10182344 -

zouden said:
Quote:
Granting a marriage license has nothing to do with religion


If only the rest of the country agreed with you.


It doesn't. Marriage is a legal institution. You don't need the church at all.


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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: learningtofly]
    #10182351 -

learningtofly said:
Marriage is a legal institution. You don't need the church at all.


learningtofly said:
Honestly, I'm fine with having gays get all the same legal rights as a marriage in a civil union or whatever, but don't call it marriage.


Can you explain this contradiction?


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: lavod]
    #10182485 -

I think that Government should get out of the marriage business.  The State should not recognize any marriage.  Why do they need to? 

I got married before my wife and my God.  I didn't bow before the State.  I didn't think I was married because I filled out some form and paid a tax.  Get the government out of people's bedrooms and let everyone do what they damn well please.

Once the government gets out of the marriage business then everyone can shut the fuck up already.  I have had it with the whole debate anyway.

Do your own thing.  I would be fine with gays, poligamy, marry your dog, whatever.  Do your own thing, just stay the hell off of my property when you are doing it.

The only people I am bigoted against are transgendered people.  I don't think that a man wearing a dress should be allowed to go into a women's bathroom.  I think those people have mental problems and I don't want them in the bathroom when my mother, sister or wife has to go to the potty.


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Tastes just like chicken

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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: learningtofly]
    #10182603 -

learningtofly said:
Please don't compare homosexuality to being black. It's hardly the same fight... who do you think had one of the highest percentage of opposition to gay marriage? Blacks and latinos. Why? Because saying "Boo-hoo i can't get the term married slapped on me and my partner" is hardly the same as "I can't even go in the same building"

Honestly, I'm fine with having gays get all the same legal rights as a marriage in a civil union or whatever, but don't call it marriage.




Yeah, its not the same thing, its called a reduction.  If you equal protection for races, why?  You reduce that to the level of the fundamental justification and then, obviously, gays have the same arguments.


But if this is some "only building entrance matters" then I take it you are against hospital visitation rights for marriage mandated in the law?  So we don't give gays the same fight?  Same with prison law and policy?  Same with military spousal rights?  Same with everything so as not to create a "building entrance right" violation?

What is the "don't call it marriage" arguing?  Are you saying this should be the policy or what?  How is this legal? 14th says it isn't.  Equal means equal.


I also wonder if you've really been paying to the debate if you think the only difference between married and not is a label.  Or was that just a dishonest argument?


Quote:
The only people I am bigoted against are transgendered people.  I don't think that a man wearing a dress should be allowed to go into a women's bathroom.  I think those people have mental problems and I don't want them in the bathroom when my mother, sister or wife has to go to the potty.



Ok.  Its not like that's a controversial position.  I would think the argument would be people that claim to be a woman in all but actual genotype should be allowed in.  To my knowledge, the law has never really defined gender and actually consistantly used that designation.  I mean what are you defining a woman to be?  It seems somewhat difficult to come to a practical answer that is at all biologically relevant.


Frankly I don't see the need for sex discriminated bathrooms anyways, honestly.  Who's walking around naked?  Kinda weird.That is a really interesting point though with cases like brown v board, are sex-limited bathroom facilities justifiable?  Not that I think the court ever would extend brown to that, I just wonder what the justification would be. 

Personally if my girfriend had a problem with someone who could justifiably claim to be a woman in all but phenotype going to the bathroom in the stall next to her i'd think her a bit weird, but whatever.

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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: johnm214]
    #10182983 -

johnm214 said:
Frankly I don't see the need for sex discriminated bathrooms anyways, honestly.  Who's walking around naked?  Kinda weird.That is a really interesting point though with cases like brown v board, are sex-limited bathroom facilities justifiable?  Not that I think the court ever would extend brown to that, I just wonder what the justification would be. 



i completely agree with this.  all of the dorm bathrooms at my school were co-ed. , showers and all. once you get over the weird-factor as a freshman, which only took about a week, it was actually quite normal.  the strange thing was going out into the rest of the world where everything was segregated again.


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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root

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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: Yrat]
    #10183104 -

Until government gets out of the business of marriage, not allowing homosexual couples to be married is without any doubt unconstitutional.

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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: Yrat]
    #10183167 -

>all of the dorm bathrooms at my school were co-ed

I think I saw that movie...


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: mozartvicious]
    #10183366 -

mozartvicious said:
I just think society has enough problems and that a dramatic shift in how our "culture's" family structure is composed would only add to the confusion and chaos.
I personally prefer a Mother Father family structure


It's fine for you to believe in all of this, (even though it is all baseless conjecture), but it shouldn't inform laws regarding marriage. The government should not be in the business of deciding what constitutes a healthy family or healthy moral decision. That is not their job. I can make my own moral decisions just fine, thank you. That is one of the reasons that the government has no business banning gay marriage.

There are many others, but the most basic one is that as long as the government is recognizing marriages for any reason, particularly when that recognition results in explicit benefits, it is unconstitutional and a mockery of justice and civil rights at the most basic level to exclude homosexual couples from that recognition.

It is also extremely innacurate of you to think that it is just gay people rallying for gay marriage. I'm not gay, but I probably spend more of my free time than 90% of homosexuals actively fighting for the lifting of bans on gay marriage. This is an issue that limits and threatens everyone's freedom, not just those who fudgepack and rugmunch.


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil 
- Thomas Paine

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Re: Gay Marriage thoughts [Re: learningtofly]
    #10184501 -

Thanks for the input of those with views unfettered by discrimination in this thread. 
learningtofly said:
Please don't compare homosexuality to being black. It's hardly the same fight... who do you think had one of the highest percentage of opposition to gay marriage? Blacks and latinos. Why? Because saying "Boo-hoo i can't get the term married slapped on me and my partner" is hardly the same as "I can't even go in the same building"

Honestly, I'm fine with having gays get all the same legal rights as a marriage in a civil union or whatever, but don't call it marriage.


I feel compelled address this bs.  For one thing, while I most certainly acquiesce to the discrimination suffered by those of minority race, I'll gladly compare the two.  Different , yes, but I'll go so far as to say that in modern "western" countries, the discrimination against homosexuals exceeds that against minority races.  Those of different skin color cannot hide their target, but the other side of the coin is that throughout much of history, gays HAD to hide their target lest they face imprisonment, murder, beatings, ya know, all that fun stuff.  In essence, their individuality was/is sacrificed due to their sexual preference.  Sure, it's better today(in "western" countries that is), but look at how even the terms "gay" and "faggot" are used in a derogatory manner in mass social acceptance today.  Sure, they're just words but what does this say about the current state of society?  Frankly, I'd consider anyone who does'nt consider sexual preference as much of an issue as race in terms of discrimination and oppression a complete fucking moron.

And as to why many of blacks and latinos oppose gay marriage?  Who can be sure but the individuals themselves?  You are surely not to be the judge of their decision. Obviously, factors vary.  And if the reason you stated is the main factor, I'd simply call that individual an ignore-ant just as I would yourself.  One thing to keep in mind, of course, is that minority races have the right to marry anywhere in the U.S, whereas us homos are limited to 4 states.  Therefore everyone, regardless of any other factors, who opposes gay marriage is no different than anyone else who opposes ones rights on the basis of a difference from the norm.

And as for this common thought: "Honestly, I'm fine with having gays get all the same legal rights as a marriage in a civil union or whatever, but don't call it marriage" ?  I'll simply repeat: selfish belief over the rights of others.


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General Interest > Political Discussion
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