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Martha style greenhouse humidity question
    #9619637 -

Thank you in advance to anyone who may help me answer this question I have...My Martha setup achieves adequate humidity levels (when casings are present) with the sole use of a constantly running Vicks 400 cool mist humidifier. The question I have after reading some conflicting information is....are there any potential advantages to introducing an ultrasonic humidifier into my set-up (perhaps on an interval timer).  Could it potentially reduce stratification? My concern is that the relative humidity within the greenhouse will reach a level so high that the casings will become saturated.  Another humidity question I have regards the relative humidity levels of the greenhouse during pinning stage and then during fruiting stage.  Are there advantages to providing different humidity levels during these two different stages of growth?  Thanks again for any help that anyone cares to offer!!


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"Where there is a stink of shit there is a smell of being” -Antonin Artaud

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: 3nD]
    #9619814 -

I myself used to always run only a cool mist in my greenhouse and never bothered with an ultrasonic,if it ain't broke don't fix it as they say :yesnod: as far as changing between pinning and fruiting I never did change it on purpose but I know that the humidity would drop some I'm sure due to me running the cool mist INSIDE the greenhouse.Running it inside means it was not  really pumping in "New" fresh air so I'm sure there was plenty of humidity loss from me opening it often to let in plenty of fresh air all the time,as long as you can find the sweet spot between fresh air and maintain humidity your fine,as you said just make sure you don't have water pooling in your casings..Hope this helps and good luck :thumbup:

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: Blutjager]
    #9622178 -

A follow up question I have regarding the greenhouse set up pertains to the location of the cool mist in relation to the greenhouse itself.(I should note that I run tubing into the greenhouse from the cool mist rather than placing the cool mist in the greenhouse).  I've seen multiple successful operations in which the cool mist is located on the ground, I've seen people put the cool mist toward the top of the greenhouse and furthermore I've seen people locate the cool mist either beside or behind the greenhouse itself.  I'm wondering what, if any, advantages are to be had relating to the placement of the cool mist humidifier.  My concerns are as follows; if the cool mist is on the ground I worry that humidity levels will be higher on the bottom shelves where the mist doesn't have as far to travel, and obviously I have the same concern in reverse for the prospect of placing the cool mist higher relative to the greenhouse.  So, in short, my question is what is the ideal location of the cool mist to achieve the desired result of consistent FAE and RH throughout the greenhouse.


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"Where there is a stink of shit there is a smell of being” -Antonin Artaud

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: 3nD]
    #9623146 -

I really can't help you with your humidifier placement dilemma since I'm a monotub man, but I do know that you'll be replacing your cool-mist apparatus sooner than later.

I've wore out a couple of V400's when I tried to improve on perfection and cut out the need to dunk my monotubs by running coolmists into them.

Since you're piping in air from the humidifier into your greenhouse, you're creating back pressure on the motor. This is hell on the motor bushings, and will wear a unit out quick (as in a couple of months). A better option in regards to equipment longevity is to place the humidifier inside the greenhouse.


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Build a man a fire, he is warm for the night. Set a man on fire, he is warm for the rest of his life.

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: Premedman1]
    #9624475 -

I've seen dozens of successful growers utilize RR's method of putting the cool mist in the greenhouse. I don't understand how leaving the door open a bit or cutting slits in the plastic of the greenhouse (to facilitate FAE) doesn't invite contamination problems?  I seem to have enough contam problems as it is...Is there any validity to the notion that pumping the cool  mist into the greenhouse constantly provides a sort of positive pressure within the greenhouse that makes it more difficult for contams to enter?  I have a feeling that my concepts about how contams are introduced to my grows are probably a bit off.  Thanks to everyone for the help


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"Where there is a stink of shit there is a smell of being” -Antonin Artaud

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: 3nD]
    #9624733 -

You're joking, right? Do you think of the greenhouse without slits as some sort of "islolated", even sterile, contaminant free environment? How come? It's all the same air, outside and inside.


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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: Premedman1]
    #9624791 -

Premedman1 said:
I really can't help you with your humidifier placement dilemma since I'm a monotub man, but I do know that you'll be replacing your cool-mist apparatus sooner than later.

I've wore out a couple of V400's when I tried to improve on perfection and cut out the need to dunk my monotubs by running coolmists into them.

Since you're piping in air from the humidifier into your greenhouse, you're creating back pressure on the motor. This is hell on the motor bushings, and will wear a unit out quick (as in a couple of months). A better option in regards to equipment longevity is to place the humidifier inside the greenhouse.


This is a bit off topic, but, with the vicks v400 model coolmist, if one were to place it inside their fc with a large pipe, something like a 4" clothes dryer style pipe running from the intake of the v400 to the outside of the fc, do you still get any problems with back pressure?

I'm thinking that putting the coolmist in the FC and piping fresh air into the coolmist would be better than putting the coolmist outside of the fc and piping humidity into the fc.

Any thoughts?


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I am the first person to admit that I'm wrong about something, If I post anything misinforming or misleading, do not hesitate to call me out on it. IF I'm actually wrong, that is. I usually wont post something unless i know it to be 100% true, but mistakes happen.
If you try to tell me i'm wrong about something im positive of, i will argue with you until you stop breathing.

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: fr33d0mfry]
    #9625332 -

lots of 'information' here...

dont soak your casings.  but mushies love water, the more you can get in the air around them and in the substrate, the better.  if you put the ultrasonic on a timer, it will be an nice touch to the greenhouse, it will cut down on misting and drying out.  not more than an hour at a time. 

if you wrap/build your martha with black plastic, so only top-light gets through, the ultrasonic mist will make your airflow visible.  this is a great trick for people experiencing irregularities among shelves in a martha.  i put the CM and the US so the outputs are converging and the CM mixes up the mist from the US.


it is nice to open and see where the air is flowing, plus it billows out all cool like and shit.


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xxx..Learn Something..xxx

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: fr33d0mfry]
    #9625539 -

fr33d0mfry said:
This is a bit off topic, but, with the vicks v400 model coolmist, if one were to place it inside their fc with a large pipe, something like a 4" clothes dryer style pipe running from the intake of the v400 to the outside of the fc, do you still get any problems with back pressure?



The unit wasn't designed to be used as an air pump. By running a hose to the intake, you are still restricting air flow and causing added stress on the motor though it would be a better option than adding a hose to the output vent.

Your best option is to cut a hole in the greenhouse that your coolmist fits through. Leave the intake section outside the greenhouse, and the output vent on the inside. This would provide humidity and FAE, and create no back pressure on the machine. You also wouldn't lose valuable humidity which is inevitable when piping moist air in.


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Build a man a fire, he is warm for the night. Set a man on fire, he is warm for the rest of his life.

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: Premedman1]
    #9626642 -

Omni, great idea thanks for the help! No i'm not joking Kahuna that's why I asked if my perception of how contams are introduced to the greenhouse is a bit naive.  I realize it's obviously not a sterile environment but I was of the assumption that the enclosed greenhouse offered some type of contamination barrier.  I realize the greenhouses primary function is to maintain proper humidity levels.  You see a ton of people on this website going to extraordinary lengths to provide contaminant free, near sterile, fruiting environments....is this obsession misguided?


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"Where there is a stink of shit there is a smell of being” -Antonin Artaud

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: 3nD]
    #9626697 -

Also I've not had much trouble in the way of cool-mist burn out (I've used the same Vick's for 4 separate grows), I'm not sure if it's just my good fortune or the fact that my modified cool mist has two output hoses. (combined, the two hoses have an opening equivalent or greater than that of the original cool mist opening)


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"Where there is a stink of shit there is a smell of being” -Antonin Artaud

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: Premedman1]
    #9629773 -

Premedman1 said:
fr33d0mfry said:
This is a bit off topic, but, with the vicks v400 model coolmist, if one were to place it inside their fc with a large pipe, something like a 4" clothes dryer style pipe running from the intake of the v400 to the outside of the fc, do you still get any problems with back pressure?



Your best option is to cut a hole in the greenhouse that your coolmist fits through. Leave the intake section outside the greenhouse, and the output vent on the inside. This would provide humidity and FAE, and create no back pressure on the machine. You also wouldn't lose valuable humidity which is inevitable when piping moist air in.


Thats an absolutely wonderful idea, thanks bro, i'll try that out

Although... I'm thinking a 4" hose would have more than enough airflow to eliminate any undesirable pressure/vacuum... And if not, what would be the proper size hose or pipe to provide enough intake to eliminate the possibility of a vacuum forming due to restricted intake?

For the v400, that is.


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I am the first person to admit that I'm wrong about something, If I post anything misinforming or misleading, do not hesitate to call me out on it. IF I'm actually wrong, that is. I usually wont post something unless i know it to be 100% true, but mistakes happen.
If you try to tell me i'm wrong about something im positive of, i will argue with you until you stop breathing.

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: fr33d0mfry]
    #9629782 -

If you're set on piping air in/out of your humidifier, your 4" dryer hose would be ideal.


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Build a man a fire, he is warm for the night. Set a man on fire, he is warm for the rest of his life.

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: Premedman1]
    #9629991 -

Premedman1 said:
If you're set on piping air in/out of your humidifier, your 4" dryer hose would be ideal.


So, I was right all along.:crazy2:

I'm gonna try your idea, I like the concept, My only concern would be refilling the water reservoir, how difficult would that be if a v400 was permanently affixed to a greenhouse?


--------------------
I am the first person to admit that I'm wrong about something, If I post anything misinforming or misleading, do not hesitate to call me out on it. IF I'm actually wrong, that is. I usually wont post something unless i know it to be 100% true, but mistakes happen.
If you try to tell me i'm wrong about something im positive of, i will argue with you until you stop breathing.

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: fr33d0mfry]
    #9631282 -

It would be simple. If I remember correctly, you remove the air filter to refill the reservoir. The filter would be on the outside of the greenhouse, very easily accessible.



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Build a man a fire, he is warm for the night. Set a man on fire, he is warm for the rest of his life.

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: Premedman1]
    #9631345 -

The time to worry about contamination is during the inoculation and spawn run stages.  Once your trays get into the greenhouse, the best defense against contaminants is massive amounts of fresh air.  It doesn't matter how you accomplish 95% or greater humidity with lots of fresh air, as long as you do it.  I've posted hundreds of times a great way to do it without ruining your humidifiers, so there's no sense in typing it all over again.  It's all there with the search function.
RR


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Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: fr33d0mfry]
    #9631395 -

fr33d0mfry said:
Premedman1 said:
If you're set on piping air in/out of your humidifier, your 4" dryer hose would be ideal.


So, I was right all along.:crazy2:

I'm gonna try your idea, I like the concept, My only concern would be refilling the water reservoir, how difficult would that be if a v400 was permanently affixed to a greenhouse?


or simply drill a hole big enough to fit a cork in on the outside of the coolmist to refill

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Re: Martha style greenhouse humidity question [Re: mello]
    #9631528 -

NO.

You need to be able to remove and wash the cool mist at least once per week.  All sorts of funk will grow inside them, and you don't want to be piping that crap in.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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