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Revenge - ethics
    #9513781 -

First of all i ask:
Are you the vengeful type? do you payback 3-fold, ten-fold? do you try to get even? or do you let most things slide?

If so, can you justify your actions reasonably? ethically?

secondly, is there any point in revenge? or does it take a stronger person to let it go?


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All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher. - Ambrose Bierce

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: flangenips]
    #9513789 -

Vengeance is a dish best served cold.

I recommend seeing the movie Oldboy for the most concise demonstration of this.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: flangenips]
    #9513829 -

I think revenge only invites further repercussions.

It's usually a result of pride, too. Useless, IMO.

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: Cameron]
    #9513838 -

Cameron said:
I think revenge only invites further repercussions.

It's usually a result of pride, too. Useless, IMO.


agreed.


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EVERYTHING IS EVERYTHING

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: deCypher]
    #9513843 -

just looked it up on imdb, looks quite good.

One film that comes to mind, in a comic kinda of way, is commando. I love how arnie refuses to negotiate with the dude at the start. great movie for quotes, but i can't remember the one in that scene!


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All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher. - Ambrose Bierce

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: Cameron]
    #9513845 -

Cameron said:
It's usually a result of pride, too. Useless, IMO.


Yeah, but it's somehow so satisfying nonetheless.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: deCypher]
    #9513869 -

On some levels, maybe.

In time, when I become irrevocably jaded, I may enjoy it so much that I'll no longer tear myself apart internally for succumbing to it. :smile:

Do you think the temporary satisfaction is worth it?

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: Cameron]
    #9513943 -

Cameron said:
On some levels, maybe.

In time, when I become irrevocably jaded, I may enjoy it so much that I'll no longer tear myself apart internally for succumbing to it. :smile:

Do you think the temporary satisfaction is worth it?


Maybe on some level, but it cannot change what happened to you, and it could bite you back on the arse.

i love how well it works out in hollywood movies though. Kill some henchmen, then the boss, and its all good, walk out of the enemy HQ covered in dirt and blood. honkey dorey - until the sequel...


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All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher. - Ambrose Bierce

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: Cameron]
    #9513956 -

Cameron said:
On some levels, maybe.

In time, when I become irrevocably jaded, I may enjoy it so much that I'll no longer tear myself apart internally for succumbing to it. :smile:

Do you think the temporary satisfaction is worth it?


Worth it in what sense?  Forgiving the person who harmed you is arguably the more noble thing to do, and this definitely increases mental flexibility and promotes a serene mind, but an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth also leaves a satisfying (if ignoble) feeling of recompense.

If anything, carrying out a spectacularly overproportioned revenge would boost your notoriety and deter others from inflicting harm onto you.  People who turn the other cheek tend to get mistreated and taken advantage of their entire life.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: deCypher]
    #9514014 -

A lot of revenge schemes I see, especially those being played out on these boards, begin with something harmless.

An off-hand remark might set things in motion, which evolves into an argument, then a cheating, one-night stand, then someone's car is keyed, the other person's tires are slashed and their windows are broken, then people become violent toward each other, and the next thing you know someone is dead.

Obviously, it rarely escalates to that point, but it does happen. One things leads to the next. The more spectacular your revenge, the higher you raise the bar, and the worse you should expect flying back at you.

I don't think revenge solves anything. Nasty situations can be alleviated without it, and "turning the other cheek" need not be the solution.

Rationalization is key, I think. People respond to reason.

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: deCypher]
    #9514020 -

deCypher said:
Cameron said:
On some levels, maybe.

In time, when I become irrevocably jaded, I may enjoy it so much that I'll no longer tear myself apart internally for succumbing to it. :smile:

Do you think the temporary satisfaction is worth it?


Worth it in what sense?  Forgiving the person who harmed you is arguably the more noble thing to do, and this definitely increases mental flexibility and promotes a serene mind, but an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth also leaves a satisfying (if ignoble) feeling of recompense.

If anything, carrying out a spectacularly overproportioned revenge would boost your notoriety and deter others from inflicting harm onto you.  People who turn the other cheek tend to get mistreated and taken advantage of their entire life.


This is somewhat true.
It reminds me of how school bulllies operated when i was young. They're be pricks just to get a weak reaction that makes them laugh, they even enjoy it if your try to ignore them as they'll get more annoying and more violent untill they get a reaction be it sadness, pain, or anger. They generally, IME, don't stop until you break their nose.

Though in saying that, notoriety can certainly attract the attention of others who, because of the notoriety, want a piece.


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All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher. - Ambrose Bierce

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: Cameron]
    #9514031 -

Cameron said:
An off-hand remark might set things in motion, which evolves into an argument, then a cheating, one-night stand, then someone's car is keyed, the other person's tires are slashed and their windows are broken, then people become violent toward each other, and the next thing you know someone is dead.


Sounds like a fun course of events to me.  :thumbup:

Quote:
I don't think revenge solves anything. Nasty situations can be alleviated without it, and "turning the other cheek" need not be the solution.

Rationalization is key, I think. People respond to reason.


I'd argue people tend to respond more to instinctive emotion than to reason.  I agree with you that revenge usually leads into general chaos, but what would your tactic be if not turning the other cheek?  Reasoning sometimes doesn't work with a neighbor who turns on loud, thumping polka music at 6 AM in the morning, and resorting to the authorities only becomes construed as an act of aggression against the neighbor (when instead you're only trying to defend your own rights).


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: deCypher]
    #9514061 -

The dreaded polka bash. :mad:

In that case, I think I'd either call the cops and tell them to report an anonymous complaint, or grab my flugelhorn and play along.



But, in all honesty, I think even polka-man could be softened with honest, reasonable conversation. I've met very few people who are immune to it.

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: deCypher]
    #9514075 -

I wouldn't call myself the "vengeful type." But I have physically harmed another in the name of it...And I don't regret it...Cause that prick deserved to to get KO'd, and crushing an enemies cheek bone with yer knuckles is SO satisfying.

  So yes, I advocate revenge if you thoroughly thought about the consequences a good day or two before you take action.

  Who says revenge can't be rational? :evil:


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Last night I was honored with the Nobel Prize in theoretical physics. This worldwide recognition has given me the opportunity to bring hope to a war-ravaged world. I vowed to myself I would work like a dog at this. But now, it's 10:30 in the morning and I'm just getting out of bed. I did get up earlier around 8:00am, but I just lied in bed for a while, and then...jerked off. I've got to stop masturbating, it makes me too lazy. Stop it Albert...stop it.

  ~Albert Einstein.

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: Cameron]
    #9514083 -

:rofl2: Thank you for bringing the existence of the flugelhorn to my attention.

But as for people being swayed by rationality, I'm not so sure.  I think this is true for trivial matters, but as soon as the topic veers near morality, religion, politics, or sexuality people generally start basing their judgments on emotion as opposed to logic.

Personally I'm still waiting for honest and reasonable conversation to settle the disputes in the Middle East.  :minigun:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: deCypher]
    #9514123 -

I don't think we'll see the end of irrationality in our lifetimes, but the mother of all mindlessness, religion, is on its way out. People will come around in time.

The question then is what will replace it?

People in the future will probably look back fondly at religion, just as many today romanticize the "moral past" through a clouded lens and a foggy memory.

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: Cameron]
    #9514154 -

Yet Scientology is on the rise...  :levitate:

I don't think religion will ever be wholly displaced.  Christianity will surely creep along if it's a fleeting remnant of its past power, but people will always be easily duped by the next charismatic guru or chance to form a loving bond with family and community.

The main shift I think we're seeing now is religion accepting the doctrine of science, forcing the concept of God to devolve back into a Blind Watchmaker sort of deal.  No divine interaction, no miracles, no faith-based irrationality.  (There is still much interesting research to be done with the power of the placebo effect and faith-healing, however.)  But people will still be seeking moral answers for a very long time.  I see religion, if it's smart, successfully incorporating science and instead veering its goal more towards moral guidance than the tradition-based irrationality that turns so many away from it.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: deCypher]
    #9514511 -

I may be wrong, but isn't islam on the rise too?

On another note, whats the harm in teaching someone consequence. If they did not care about what they did to you or someone close to you, and did not really care what happened to them, why forgive them. Could forgiving and forgetting be ignoble, is there some sort of underlying ethical justice.

Then again, for heinous acts, can retributive justice ever be attained. Sometimes the death penalty and life imprisonment, even eye for an eye punishment does not always seem enough since what has happened cannot be changed. Though there is always the temporary satisfaction that the person has suffered for the injustice or is dead so they cannot harm anyone else.

Is that as close to a true feeling of retribution we can get?


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All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher. - Ambrose Bierce

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: flangenips]
    #9515806 -

Although I struggle with practicing my philosophical viewpoint,
I think punishment's only purpose should be rehabilitation or protection of others. There's enough ego v. ego entertainment to be had without intentionally developing some revenge plot.


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I'm a sheep with flathead screwdriver RNA in a toolbox.

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Re: Revenge - ethics [Re: flangenips]
    #9516045 -

Revenge mainly is used to prevent someone from doing some harm again. I think it's useful against ignorant dickheads, who refuse to accept the old rule of not doing something on another, what oneself would like do be done unto oneself.
Therefor I try to apply the same way and amount of evil, they formerly used on me. Then I enjoy watching them trying to cope with this.
Usually they won't harm me this way again.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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