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Becker on death anxiety.
    #9316004 -

Stimulated by a question by RGVs I have to broach this subject one more time.

The Denial of Death (ISBN 0-684-83240-2) is a psychology/philosophy work written by Ernest Becker and published in 1973. It was awarded the Pulitzer prize for general non-fiction in 1974, two months after the author's death. The book builds largely on the works of Søren Kierkegaard, Sigmund Freud, and one of Freud's colleagues, Otto Rank.

The basic premise of The Denial of Death is that human civilization is ultimately an elaborate, symbolic defense mechanism against the knowledge of our mortality, which in turn acts as the emotional and intellectual response to our basic survival mechanism. Becker argues that a basic duality in human life exists between the physical world of objects and a symbolic world of human meaning. Thus, since man has a dualistic nature consisting of a physical self and a symbolic self, man is able to transcend the dilemma of mortality through heroism, a concept involving his symbolic half. By embarking on what Becker refers to as an "immortality project" (or causa sui), in which he creates or becomes part of something which he feels will outlast him, man feels he has "become" heroic and, henceforth, part of something eternal; something that will never die, compared to his physical body that will die one day. This, in turn, gives man the feeling that his life has meaning; a purpose; significance in the grand scheme of things.

From this premise, mental illness is most insightfully extrapolated as a bogging down in one's hero system(s). When someone is experiencing depression, their causa sui (or heroism project) is failing, and they are being consistently reminded of their mortality and insignificance as a result. Schizophrenia is a step further than depression in which one's causa sui is falling apart, making it impossible to engender sufficient defense mechanisms against their mortality; henceforth, the schizophrenic has to create their own reality or "world" in which they are better heroes. Becker argues that the conflict between immortality projects which contradict each other (particularly in religion) is the wellspring for the destruction and misery in our world caused by wars, bigotry, genocide, racism, nationalism, and so forth, since an immortality project which contradicts others indirectly suggests that the others are wrong.

Another theme running throughout the book is that humanity's traditional "hero-systems" i.e. religion, are no longer convincing in the age of reason; science is attempting to solve the problem of man, something that Becker feels it can never do. The book states that we need new convincing "illusions" that enable us to feel heroic in the grand scheme of things, i.e. immortal. Becker, however, does not provide any definitive answer, mainly because he believes that there is no perfect solution. Instead, he hopes that gradual realization of man's innate motivations, namely death, can help to bring about a better world.

[edit]


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: Icelander]
    #9316012 -

I wanted to add my end of a PM conversation to this.

Oh yes I agree.  I agree with you also that there really is no separate subconscious, but rather repressed awareness. Most death anxiety is repressed and that only makes sense if you accept that premise. I have looked deeply into what motivates myself and it's most certainly death anxiety. I also suspect this with the rest of humanity of course. In fact it was a real eye opener to realize what my cultural programming was really all in service of. This even put the idea of free will into question for me. Another question that really bugs me is that as I acknowledge that I have a lot of death anxiety why then am I one of the few willing to openly acknowledge it? Could it only be another way to deal with the problem and not necessarily be a more honest and superior position? I think yes.

I do feel however that since I'm on this path called me I might just as well see where it goes. But really I can no longer believe in myself as I once could, the reason being that I know that my "subconscious" belief in my immortality is a lie I have to tell myself. This can be crazy making at times; which then of course brings into the mix the idea of the death wish as a way out.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: Icelander]
    #9316023 -

I will repost this rebuttal of Becker:

Quote:
The fact that most people report themselves as having a low to moderate level of death anxiety does not offer support for either Freud's psychoanalytic or Becker's existential theory. Respondents do not seem to be in the grips of intense anxiety, but neither do they deny having any death-related fears. Kastenbaum's Edge theory offers a different way of looking at this finding. According to the theory, most people do not have a need to go through life either denying the reality of death or in a high state of alarm. Either of these extremes would actually interfere with one's ability both to enjoy life and cope with the possibility of danger. The everyday baseline of low to moderate anxiety keeps people alert enough to scan for potential threats to their own lives or the lives of other people. At the perceived moment of danger, people feel themselves to be on the edge between life and death, an instant away from catastrophe. The anxiety surge is part of a person's emergency response and takes priority over whatever else the person may have been doing. People are therefore not "in denial" when, in safe circumstances, they report themselves to have a low level of death anxiety. The anxiety switches on when their vigilance tells them that a life is on the edge of annihilation.


Hypothesizing that every human is consumed by an unconscious death anxiety seems just like Freud postulating that every male is consumed by the Oedipal complex: both are unprovable assertions and seem more like an attempt to twist the facts to prove the author's pet theory rather than examine true human motivations.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: deCypher]
    #9316035 -

Actually I think they're talking about two different things. One being practical instinctual survival fears and the other being repressed emotional fears based in the personality structure.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: Icelander]
    #9316043 -

But what about those humans who do not exhibit such practical survival fears?  This provides convincing evidence that Becker's universal death anxiety is not really so universal.

If you claim that these humans are simply repressing it, this is a wholly unverifiable claim and not good psychology.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: Icelander]
    #9316048 -

He brings up an exciting mechanism! There's a lot of truth in his interpretation right from the outset.

My main criticism is that his argument is a slightly arbitrary mechanism.
It seems flawed in an analysis such as :

Quote:
From this premise, mental illness is most insightfully extrapolated as a bogging down in one's hero system(s). When someone is experiencing depression, their causa sui (or heroism project) is failing, and they are being consistently reminded of their mortality and insignificance as a result.


Specifically, what is meant by the causa sui "failing"?

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Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: deCypher]
    #9316057 -

who do not exhibit such practical survival fears? 

Like what?  Doesn't everyone have a startle reflex which is in the service of survival? Or am I misunderstanding the question?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: vampirism]
    #9316081 -

vampirism said:
Specifically, what is meant by the causa sui "failing"?


To elaborate, how can a causa sui - a project of the symbolic and not physical self - ever fail? It would seem to point to something else functioning - self judgement. And how does that relate to death anxiety?

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Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: vampirism]
    #9316087 -

Specifically, what is meant by the causa sui "failing"?

As far as I understand this it would be that depression is a sign that the ego is not the master it tells itself it is. IMO this is the main reason for "egoism" in humans. The ego must prove itself to be "perfect" or always correct and superior or it would not be able to defeat death. Now anyone would tell you they know they will die. But not now, not today, and not in the foreseeable future. It's always off in some vague future that will never become the present. For instance, I have heard the statement of youthful folly around the idea of killing oneself to make a point. "I can't wait to see the look on her face when I'm dead":lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: Icelander]
    #9316102 -

A startle reflex is an instinct, but is the constant, overwhelming recognizance of one's own mortality likewise instinctual?

I think not; I think it's possible to realize one's mortality and use the powers of our neocortex to accept this rather than uselessly fight it.

Does one see Zen monks constantly fighting their own mortality?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: deCypher]
    #9316121 -

, but is the constant, overwhelming recognizance of one's own mortality likewise instinctual?

No it's emotional and IMO something unavoidable.

And yes I do believe the Zen Monk practices Zen to help him deal with his death anxiety. Likewise Buddhism, Christianity, and all the rest of it.:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: deCypher]
    #9316163 -

deCypher said:
Hypothesizing that every human is consumed by an unconscious death anxiety seems just like Freud postulating that every male is consumed by the Oedipal complex: both are unprovable assertions and seem more like an attempt to twist the facts to prove the author's pet theory rather than examine true human motivations.


I highly recommend reading Life Against Death by Norman O. Brown before you write off Freud entirely.  I consider it one of the most important texts on psychoanalysis that I have encountered.  The Oedipus complex is indeed a reality, though its nature is often misunderstood.  Many falsely assume that it simply means that every child wants to kill his father and fuck his mother.  It's not quite that simple.  Brown explains that the Oedipus complex is essentially a desire to become one's own father, or "self-existent," free from the trappings of the ego and the external world.  In infancy, the child exists in a sort of solipsistic state of polymorphously perverse sexuality in which all of his needs are met by his mother and he is not burdened with inhibitions or social demands.  One could say that for the first 2 years of the child's life, he exists as "pure id," to use Freud's terminology.  However, once he begins to develop self-awareness, the child is confronted with the reality principle, an event which is naturally traumatic.  In flight from the reality principle, the child envisions a return to his mother's womb, a state in which he was unburdened by the harsh reality of autonomy and social expectations.  The father is viewed merely as an obstacle.

"The essence of society is repression of the individual, and the essence of the individual is repression of himself."

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Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9316174 -

Great post.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: Icelander]
    #9316237 -

Came across this while browsing Scientific American Mind. It covers different aspects of the topic, but includes very similar suggestions.

    * Almost everyone has a tendency to imagine the mind continuing to exist after the death of the body.
    * Even people who believe the mind ceases to exist at death show this type of psychological-continuity reasoning in studies.
    * Rather than being a by-product of religion or an emotional security blanket, such beliefs stem from the very nature of our consciousness. [Emphasis mine]

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=never-say-die

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Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: Arden]
    #9316282 -

It is impossible for the ego to ever truly come to terms with the reality of death.  I imagine this is why LSD has been shown to reduce anxiety in terminally ill cancer patients, as it tends to temporarily reduce self-consciousness to a degree.

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Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: Arden]
    #9316288 -

My personal quest into my own psyche and motivations confirm this. Unfortunately.:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9316387 -

Very true. And the ego-dissolving potential of psychedelic drugs also include many other benefits outside of reducing death anxiety. It would be interesting to read longitudinal studies that measured the correlation between psychological fears and anxieties and a previous history of safe usage of psychedelic drugs.

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Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9316885 -

"However, once he begins to develop self-awareness, the child is confronted with the reality principle, an event which is naturally traumatic.  In flight from the reality principle, the child envisions a return to his mother's womb, a state in which he was unburdened by the harsh reality of autonomy and social expectations.  The father is viewed merely as an obstacle."

I want to know how they know what the child is thinking.

This isn't intended for offense, I'm curious.

Edit: I also really liked this quote from the article you shared. Thanks Arden “everyone carries the proof of his own immortality within himself.”


Edited by Kupo (11/26/08 01:31 PM)

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Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: Arden]
    #9317151 -

Arden I cannot thank you enough for the article you posted.  It connects with a thesis I am writing in a rather splendid way.  Thank you!  :thumbup::mushroom2::thumbup:

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Re: Becker on death anxiety. [Re: Kupo]
    #9317162 -

mrspirit2 said:
"However, once he begins to develop self-awareness, the child is confronted with the reality principle, an event which is naturally traumatic.  In flight from the reality principle, the child envisions a return to his mother's womb, a state in which he was unburdened by the harsh reality of autonomy and social expectations.  The father is viewed merely as an obstacle."

I want to know how they know what the child is thinking.


What the child is thinking isn't really the issue as most of what I described is occurring on an unconscious level.  Much of the child's psychic activity occurs in the realm of fantasy.  The reason that humans are the only animals which seem to exhibit neurotic symptoms is that we remain in a state of infancy and complete dependence on others (i.e. feeding at the mothers breasts) for much longer than any other species.  As I said, the transition from the polymorphously perverse narcissism of infancy to the rigid confines of ego, genital organization (sexuality is limited to the genital region as opposed to polymorphously perverse sexuality in which sexuality involves the entire body, including the inner organs) and the demands of parents (toilet training, etc.) which ultimately reflect the demands of society is naturally a traumatic experience for the child.  This is his first encounter with what Freud called the reality principle.  As a result, the child understandably longs for his previous mode of existence.

Considering the profound differences between the psychic activity of the child and that of an adult, it is impossible to know the exact cognitive processes which are occurring, but the underlying theme is almost always the same.  Even the Ancient Greeks were at least partially aware of this, though Oedipus Rex is more of a metaphor than an actual example of the Oedipus complex.  Though Freud initially developed his theory through introspection, Oedipal behavior has been and continues to be observed in children.  I myself have witnessed blatant manifestations of the Oedipus complex in small children.  It also frequently manifests itself in the neurotic symptoms of adults.  Though Freud believed that the complex is eventually resolved by identification with one's father, I would have to disagree; it is merely repressed, like so many other things, and it will continue to influence one's psychic activity until death.

If you are truly interested in learning more about infantile sexuality and the way in which the sublimation of repressed desire is responsible not only for human activity but for culture as well, I recommend reading the book I mentioned above.  Norman O. Brown presents the most radical and far-reaching interpretation of Freudian theory that I know of; a perfect antidote to the so-called neo-Freudians, who either discard or simply ignore any aspect of Freud that they find unpleasant.

http://www.amazon.com/Life-Against-Death-Psychoanalytical-Meaning/dp/0819561444/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227735014&sr=1-1

Edited by it stars saddam (11/26/08 04:42 PM)

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