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Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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The Buddha and Becker on the problem.
    #11918218 -

I'm thinking that Becker and the Buddha were both working the same problem. That Buddha looked out from his ivory tower and said why is their aging decay sickness and death at the core of everything. He then went on his quest to find out how to defeat the problem. He tried everything and of course he never really did. It's not surprising that he rejected all the gurus along the way. He developed his core teaching for dealing with the problem of death. Just like Becker did. And maybe, just maybe in the end he succumbed to the same thing that Becker did. But maybe not. :wink:

Still I think the Buddha did a fairly good job.:thumbup:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #11918248 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11918299 -

His work was never popular because he used that D word so often.

At the end when he realized the problem could not be solved except with a shield he had already seen through most of them. Faith was all he could come up with. Joke on him.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Icelander]
    #11920898 -

death is not a problem that buddha dealt with at all
(except metaphorically)
in the context of the suffering that he did deal with, death is small potatoes.
buddha was involved with consciousness,
the succession of mind moments and the wake of their passing (mini deaths metaphorically)
this pageant and it's side effects is the domain where suffering was addressed by buddha.
it is and was about the stream we are all involved with, and not about the end of any particular stream.
one of the afflictions is fixation, or clinging to a point unrelated to the current flow.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #11920941 -

I'm not talking about death. After all this time is that your understanding of my posts? I'm talking about death anxiety and how it makes us cling to everything. This is what the Buddha found and why it was death and decay that set him on his quest imo.

You misunderstand what I am saying.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #11922062 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11922465 -

I don't think it was about defeating the problem of death, more just understanding that all things are subject to it. Its seems nicer to be dressed up in words like 'impermanence' though, when really its basically saying 'everything dies'.

In my experience of understanding death, the only 'problem' is making it personal, death happens to the person but death itself is not personal, it happens to everyone & everything, so when contemplating death, making it personal is the only bit that can make it seem daunting as the person is always clinging to life in some way shape or form.

Some self image is there & the inevitable vanishing of that image creates a fear, so IMO the only way to truly face death is to see through the self image, see if your essential self consists of an 'image'


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Edited by Chronic7 (01/29/10 05:31 AM)

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Chronic7]
    #11925221 -

yes
i may have misunderstand
but I still suppose you are calling all anxiety death anxiety
and I don't see the need to prepend the word death in front of things where it is not actually suitable.

that might be construed as obsessive.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #11925450 -

Well lets go into this (in simple terms please). What would cause you anxiety if you were immortal? No death decay disfigurement, all the time in the world to put any problem off. No survival issues. Now how much would make you anxious?


Give a couple examples if you have them.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Icelander]
    #11925810 -

I can hardly imagine an immortal existence, let alone postulate losing it.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #11926000 -

This was on my mind yesterday, the idea of what an immortal life would leave me to do. Looking at our actions and motivations I can't find anything that doesn't trace down the branch to the trunk that is an comprehension and consequent fear of one's death.

Life and death are so closely knit that I cannot imagine if I were indeed immortal that I would find myself doing anything I am now, I can't even say that human expression (the one thing I find passion for) would maintain it's meaning without the pressurs of the human existence. Inside the engine I call life death is the flame moving it all.

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #11926026 -

redgreenvines said:
I can hardly imagine an immortal existence, let alone postulate losing it.



Nice cop out and btw I knew you would. But take it from the honest post below yours.

Looking at our actions and motivations I can't find anything that doesn't trace down the branch to the trunk that is an comprehension and consequent fear of one's death. :thumbup:

If you seek with and open heart and mind you will find the frightening truth.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Icelander]
    #11926367 -

which naturally you can put in words
or can you only try to put it in words
and then try harder
and then escalate it
until it gets threatening...
and a few feet away it is just the beating of another drum.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #11926690 -

We are the primate with the most developed brain. The major effect of this development for us imo is the knowledge that we can and will cease to be one day, to decay and die away.

Everything we do is informed by this knowledge. The search for the fountain of youth, the fountain of immortality moves the the culture and all it's advancements. Mostly unconsciously.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Icelander]
    #11926721 -

This is the kind of big idea that I have to live with for a couple years and make sure it fits everywhere before I accept it.

The damn thing is psychology is the realm of subjectivity, and subjectivity is susceptible to modification through fears, desires and expectations.

We humans have mastered the science of objectivity, now we need a scientific method for subjectivity if at all possible. Perhaps the Buddhists have done this already?

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Freedom]
    #11926841 -

This is the kind of big idea that I have to live with for a couple years and make sure it fits everywhere before I accept it.

I didn't accept it until I was in my fifties. I had to try every way out first. So yes, it's up to you to decide for yourself.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Icelander]
    #11927976 -

I would say all fears stem from the fear of death as in my experience when i do not fear death, i don't have any other fears at all.

Freedom said:
We humans have mastered the science of objectivity, now we need a scientific method for subjectivity if at all possible. Perhaps the Buddhists have done this already?


Well it seems almost impossible at the moment, talk to any robotics engineer that deals with self awareness & they'll tell you its difficult, almost impossible territory for science to deal with. Science uses consciousness, but it doesnt understand what it is, i don't think it ever will, as its not a measurable tangible 'thing'


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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Chronic7]
    #11928027 -

This is an area where you and I are in full agreement then.

This knowledge may not be of benefit to most and may even make life more stressful. However at the very least one knows why one is having difficulties. It's not in that sense a personal problem but rather a problem of life as homo sapiens in general. It's in our makeup and a side effect so to speak of the evolution of this self aware consciousness.

To think it possible that all the accomplishments of our progress in civilization throughout human history, all the great work and striving along with all the great sufferings and confusion as to why we often act in horrific ways can come down to this one fact. We know we will die and we don't want this to be true. Well it's a somewhat stunning and humbling realization.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: Icelander]
    #11928402 -

Icelander said:
We are the primate with the most developed brain. The major effect of this development for us imo is the knowledge that we can and will cease to be one day, to decay and die away.

Everything we do is informed by this knowledge. The search for the fountain of youth, the fountain of immortality moves the the culture and all it's advancements. Mostly unconsciously.


I deconstruct your origami of thought:

* We are the primate*
This is an intellectual effort to fold all of us into one form: i.e. to make one out of many (separately we can talk about the suitability of that but for now just look at the synthetic mental process of Reduction of Many into One)

* most developed brain*
This is an intellectual effort to draw attention at a dominant size (drop the little details and see this one big thing Reduction of Many into One)


* The major effect*
Again – before getting to anything factual, we have an intellectual gesture that creates a vortex of ideation invoking the Reduction of Many into One.

*Everything we do is informed by this knowledge.*
Actually everything we do is informed by everything we experience but we can see that the intent is to swirl all meaning into one big idea.

I do not blame anyone for being involved with the Reduction of Many into One., as it does seem organically satisfying mental behavior (pleasure of resonance like tuning forks mutually chiming), I am just very leery of Certainty, especially when the process is an arbitrary organic one (associative thought), and above all when the intent is to summarize All into One while the fair trick is to allow Many into One. i.e. it is natural to connect one to many, but it is overreaching to make a mountain out of a mole hill, and call that mountain a planet.

otherwise I do agree that the colonization of the western continents was fueled by dreams of business expansion and not least of which was plunder of gold and exportable foods and medicines including but not over-emphasising, Ponce de Leon and the quest for a fountain of youth.

among archetypes, any of the aces in any tarot deck does this same Reduction of Many to One, but any deck worth it's salt will allow at least 4 suits, and the reduction of all of that is Deck not Death.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The Buddha and Becker on the problem. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #11928664 -

I don't think you have disputed my statement in any viable way.

Just because a Tarot deck (which by the way is used by most for self protection to get the edge on death):wink: only has one death card just proves how it is broken up and dispersed into the minutia of life.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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