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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9076311 -

And this douche who took his seat (heh) was not running on some kind of moral high ground platform?


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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9076520 -

Wow, it takes true apologetics to argue in favor of a 40 year old man telling an underage boy that he wants his virgin starfish.

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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: xFrockx]
    #9076871 -

Question!

Was Foley a real "family values/homosexuality is immoral" kind of guy?


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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: Minstrel]
    #9076894 -

Minstrel said:
Question!

Was Foley a real "family values/homosexuality is immoral" kind of guy?



Mark Foley did not engage in any criminal activity and no physical contact.







Was Tim Mahoney a "family values" kind of guy?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9078198 -

>Mark Foley did not engage in any criminal activity and no physical contact.

Isn't it illegal to solicit a minor?


>Was Tim Mahoney a "family values" kind of guy?

Aren't they all?


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:

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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: Minstrel]
    #9078228 -

Minstrel said:
Question!

Was Foley a real "family values/homosexuality is immoral" kind of guy?


was he a Bob Allen?

http://quinnell.us/sspb/?p=499


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9078268 -

pinkfloydms said:
>Mark Foley did not engage in any criminal activity and no physical contact.

Isn't it illegal to solicit a minor?


Whatever Foley did was clearly not illegal.  Otherwise he would have been prosecuted.  How fucking hard is this for you to understand?
Quote:
>Was Tim Mahoney a "family values" kind of guy?
Aren't they all?


I think he ran on the "I'm Not a Homo" ticket.  I read somewhere that she broke it off when she found out he was cheating on her.  Which really doesn't speak well to the level of her intellect, does it?


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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9078289 -

>Whatever Foley did was clearly not illegal.  Otherwise he would have been prosecuted.  How fucking hard is this for you to understand?

Did you not see the question mark???? That implies a question being asked. :flowstone:


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Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:

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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9078345 -

Why is there even a question?


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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9078380 -

Because I didn't keep up with what happened with the case, and that's the last thing I heard about the case.

I really don't give a fuck which government official is fucking who. As long as they don't go on fucking tv and lie about it to the whole world and then admit to it a few days later. That's when it becomes public matter. Just don't talk about it.


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:

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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9079475 -

zappaisgod said:
pinkfloydms said:
>Mark Foley did not engage in any criminal activity and no physical contact.

Isn't it illegal to solicit a minor?


Whatever Foley did was clearly not illegal.  Otherwise he would have been prosecuted.  How fucking hard is this for you to understand?


Give me a break.


Whether or not he did anything illegal has nothing to do with whether a prosecution was initiated.  There are any number of reasons why a prosecution wouldn't be brought even when the conduct is known.

Please explain how he didn't violate florida statutes 847.0138 ?
Clearly he transmited material that appeals to purient shameful and morbid interests or that is offensive to prevailing standards of what is suitable for minors?

He talked about masterbation and such with the pages.

And it should be noted there is a different between criminality and legality, though Folely trangressed both bounds.


Quote:
2)  Notwithstanding ss. 847.012 and 847.0133, any person in this state who knew or believed that he or she was transmitting an image, information, or data that is harmful to minors, as defined in s. 847.001, to a specific individual known by the defendant to be a minor in this state commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3)  Notwithstanding ss. 847.012 and 847.0133, any person in any jurisdiction other than this state who knew or believed that he or she was transmitting an image, information, or data that is harmful to minors, as defined in s. 847.001, to a specific individual known by the defendant to be a minor in this state commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.


Quote:
(6)  "Harmful to minors" means any reproduction, imitation, characterization, description, exhibition, presentation, or representation, of whatever kind or form, depicting nudity, sexual conduct, or sexual excitement when it:

(a)  Predominantly appeals to a prurient, shameful, or morbid interest;

(b)  Is patently offensive to prevailing standards in the adult community as a whole with respect to what is suitable material or conduct for minors; and

(c)  Taken as a whole, is without serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for minors.



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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: johnm214]
    #9079802 -

how is 'minor' defined in Florida state law in the regard to sex


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9079859 -

Quote:
847.001(8)  "Minor" means any person under the age of 18 years.




What do you think pris?


Since one of the IM sessions has folely admitting he's in Florida while he's typing the message, I think its clear he violated the statute.

He transmitted data to a minor that appealed to a prurient interest when he was talking about him and the kid masterbation and how the page masterbated, and was mentioning the kids great legs et cet.


Pretty clear he's guilty if the IM messages appearing here are real. 

I don't know if the kid agreed to cooperate or not, but either way it could be easily ascertained if the IM's are accurate or not by putting the kid on the stand or Mr. Folely.  After that, conviction would be a done deal presuming the kid w/ lacrose practice was a minor at this time, which seems to be the case- press reports have the lacrosse kid as being 16 at the time.


What do you guys think?
Zappa, how is this not against the law?


Quote:
Maf54 (7:33:39 PM): i am in pensecola...had to catch a plane
Xxxxxxxxx (7:33:47 PM): oh well thats fun
Maf54 (7:34:04 PM): indeed
Xxxxxxxxx (7:34:14 PM): what are you doing in pensecola
Maf54 (7:34:21 PM): now in my hotel room
Xxxxxxxxx (7:34:39 PM): well ..like why did you go there
Maf54 (7:35:02 PM): for the campaign...

Xxxxxxxxx (7:41:57 PM): ugh tomorrow i have the first day of
lacrosse practice
Maf54 (7:42:27 PM): love to watch that
Maf54 (7:42:33 PM): those great legs running
Xxxxxxxxx (7:42:38 PM): haha...they arent great
Xxxxxxxxx (7:42:45 PM): thats why we have conditioning
Xxxxxxxxx (7:42:56 PM): 2 days running....3 days lifting
Xxxxxxxxx (7:43:11 PM): every week
Xxxxxxxxx (7:43:14 PM): until the end of march
Maf54 (7:43:27 PM): well dont ruin my mental picture
Xxxxxxxxx (7:43:32 PM): oh lol...sorry
Maf54 (7:43:54 PM): nice
Maf54 (7:43:54 PM): youll be way hot then
Xxxxxxxxx (7:44:01 PM): haha...hopefully

...

Maf54 (7:48:00 PM): did you spank it this weekend yourself
Xxxxxxxxx (7:48:04 PM): no
Xxxxxxxxx (7:48:16 PM): been too tired and too busy
Maf54 (7:48:33 PM): wow...
Maf54 (7:48:34 PM): i am never to busy haha

...
Maf54 (7:53:54 PM): do you really do it face down
Xxxxxxxxx (7:54:03 PM): ya
Maf54 (7:54:13 PM): kneeling
Xxxxxxxxx (7:54:31 PM): well i dont use my hand...i use the bed itself
Maf54 (7:54:31 PM): where do you unload it
Xxxxxxxxx (7:54:36 PM): towel
Maf54 (7:54:43 PM): really
Maf54 (7:55:02 PM): completely naked?
Xxxxxxxxx (7:55:12 PM): well ya
Maf54 (7:55:21 PM): very nice
Xxxxxxxxx (7:55:24 PM): lol
Maf54 (7:55:51 PM): cute butt bouncing in the air
Xxxxxxxxx (7:56:00 PM): haha
Xxxxxxxxx (7:56:05 PM): well ive never watched myslef
Xxxxxxxxx (7:56:08 PM): but ya i guess
Maf54 (7:56:18 PM): i am sure not
Maf54 (7:56:22 PM): hmmm
Maf54 (7:56:30 PM): great visual
Maf54 (7:56:39 PM): i may try that
Xxxxxxxxx (7:56:43 PM): it works
Maf54 (7:56:51 PM): hmm
Maf54 (7:56:57 PM): sound inetersting
Maf54 (7:57:05 PM): i always use lotion and the hand
Maf54 (7:57:10 PM): but who knows


http://www.democrats.com/node/10187

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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: johnm214]
    #9079868 -

Oh, and the law cited covers:

Quote:
847.0138  Transmission of material harmful to minors to a minor by electronic device or equipment prohibited; penalties.--

(1)  For purposes of this section:
...
(b)  "Transmit" means to send to a specific individual known by the defendant to be a minor via electronic mail.


Which includes what folely did.

So he did transmit.  kid was a minor.  Folely knew he was a minor.  The data transmitted apealed to prurient interests (masturbation of Folely and the kid, kid's butt, kid's great legs, et cet).

That's all the elements of that offense.

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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: johnm214]
    #9079960 -

johnm214 said:
kid was a minor.  Folely knew he was a minor.  The data transmitted apealed to prurient interests (masturbation of Folely and the kid, kid's butt, kid's great legs, et cet). 


apparently you define minor the same way florida does, why
again were no criminal charges filed, what state did the
kid live in?

Quote:
The age of consent in Florida is 18, but close in age exemptions exist. By law, the exception permits an adult under the age of 24 to engage in legal sexual activity with a minor no younger than the age of 16.

794.05 Unlawful sexual activity with certain minors.-- (1) A person 24 years of age or older who engages in sexual activity with a person 16 or 17 years of age commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. As used in this section, "sexual activity" means oral, anal, or vaginal penetration by, or union with, the sexual organ of another; however, sexual activity does not include an act done for a bona fide medical purpose Florida code, Title XLVI, Chapter 794



Quote:
847.0135
(3)  CERTAIN USES OF COMPUTER SERVICES PROHIBITED.--Any person who knowingly utilizes a computer on-line service, Internet service, or local bulletin board service to seduce, solicit, lure, or entice, or attempt to seduce, solicit, lure, or entice, a child or another person believed by the person to be a child, to commit any illegal act described in chapter 794, relating to sexual battery; chapter 800, relating to lewdness and indecent exposure; or chapter 827, relating to child abuse, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.



--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9080223 -

Age of consent doesn't matter.

The laws are different.  One penalizes sex, one penalizes transmitting dirty words or pictures to minors. 

With the bizzare child porn moral panick you can have sex with a 16 year old but you can't send them a picture of yourself naked- in flordia anyways.


In any case, it doesn't matter where the kid lived.


Foley was in florida when he transmited those instant messages so the law applies to him.  Where the minor is is immaterial- it only matters that he was a minor and Foley knew he was a minor.  The law I cited clearly criminalizes the acts Foley commited, unless Foley wasn't really in florida when he said he was and the child was also not in florida (or unless you decide that discussing your and the childs masterbation and ass and blowjobs and "great legs" isn't, in the context of the clearly sexually drived conversation, prurient or morbid content).  In either case, I find it pretty clear Foley was in florida, per his own admission, and thus he violated the law with respect to those instant messages.  And this ignores the other messages which I didn't even look at.

As to why no charges where filed I'd guess the kid didn't wish to cooperate so they didn't pursue it, but I really don't know.  Could also be a political decision.

Eitehr way, that's my point:  that someone wasn't prosecuted doesn't demonstrate they didn't commit a crime.




PS  I think its much more questionable whether Foley violated the section you cited about luring a kid to do indecent acts.  I think its definatly clear he was transmiting prurient material.

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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: johnm214]
    #9080357 -

johnm214 said:
Age of consent doesn't matter.


actually it does in this case as it's a violation under
several statutes, it shows predatory behavior towards a minor,
given that foley was over the age of 24 and the page was under
18, it certainly brings in more charges that should have been
filed

Quote:
The laws are different.  One penalizes sex, one penalizes transmitting dirty words or pictures to minors. 


but the one penalizing sex also defines a minor under the states laws

Quote:
With the bizzare child porn moral panick you can have sex with a 16 year old but you can't send them a picture of yourself naked- in flordia anyways.


no, in fact he cannot have sex with the kid because of the age
gap cutoff being 24 years old, after that the kid would have
to have been 18 or older


Quote:
Foley was in florida when he transmited those instant messages so the law applies to him.


both states laws apply as well as federal laws


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9080749 -

Oh ok, I was just saying that age of consent is irrelevant for the statute I posted.

In any case, I think its relativly clear that their is no good obvious reason why he wasn't charged.  Anyone know why he wasn't?

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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: johnm214]
    #9080794 -

Maybe because he was not guilty....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Democrats created Foley scandal [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9080807 -

Quote:
but the one penalizing sex also defines a minor under the states laws


It doesn't define what a minor is, it defines the legal age for consensual sex. The two are not the same.

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