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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Phred]
    #9068996 -

I blame ALL of this on petrodollars, 911 and hollywood.


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Seuss]
    #9069043 -

If you are really interested in reading more about the CRA and its effects, this CATO article is excellent. Here are some highlights, but you should really take the time to read the entire piece.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv23n3/gunther.pdf

"Growth in lending to low-income neighborhoods by institutions outside cra"s jurisdiction suggests deregulation and technological advances have increased competition, lowered information costs, and increased access to financial services. As a result, a good part of the lending in low-income neighborhoods by financial institutions subject to cra also might reflect those factors, rather than cra lending mandates.The available data support that proposition. Most of the recent growth in lending by cra-covered institutions in low-income neighborhoods has occurred in areas where the institutions do not operate banking offices and have no cra obligations.
The inescapable conclusion is that progress predicated on technology, financial innovation, and competition"not cra"has broadened the U.S. financial services marketplace."

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: DeepDish]
    #9069156 -

I agree, nobody, and I;m glad you faced up to the fact that this isn't some partisan thing, wants to suck it up and have us take our medicine.

Kinda like somebody starts to OD at a party you're throwing. You don't want to go through what it's going to take to get them medical help, not to mention the law may get involved and shoot, who wants the party to stop, so you just start stuffing more drugs down their throat o see if they can "work their way out of it".

At least that's how I see it.

Good, solid ideas. But lemme ask you this, since they're NOT going to do any of that sensible stuff, what are we going to be looking at a year or two from now when the house of cards does fall??


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: GabbaDj]
    #9069167 -

GabbaDj said:
I blame ALL of this on petrodollars, 911 and hollywood.


I think that the goofy kid from the "Hidden Valley Ranch" commercials also needs to step up and take his share of the blame.


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: johnm214]
    #9070119 -

johnm214 said:
Yossarian22 said:
But keep on scapegoating the poor and minorities.



GTFO with that


Phred and the other CRA opponents have never, to my knowledge, stated that blacks as a group are responsible for this- nor any other race.


By raising stupid claims of racism you denigrate real demonstrable injustice in society and reinforce the views of some that their whinning about race is justified because of these "everything is racist" folks.


The issue is people that didn't pay what they owed, and banks that lended to them (and the people that lended to them, in turn).  This has nothing to do with race and everything to do with public policy.


Blaming a civil rights legislation which in reality had at most a tangential influence on the situation for an international economic meltdown is scapegoating. Just because it's not explicit doesn't mean it's quite clear in the subtext: All of these problems are caused by racial minorities who were too irresponsible with their money. Instead of placing the blame where it belongs, the far right is trying to make it a racial issue, a referendum on affirmative action, by relying upon stereotypes of racial minorities and black people in particular. That is racism, even if the speaker isn't shouting "nigger" at the top of his lungs like someone at a McCain/Palin rally.

Of course, that's total bullshit- the failure of credit rating agencies, the total lack of oversight or regulation of the securities market(which allowed lenders to deceptively sell crap debt as high-rated secure investments), the total absence of restrictions/prudence placed on the part of major banks(who were given permission under Bush to take on obscene levels of debt), these were all mistakes which lead inevitably to this credit crisis. The CRA, which, as has been mentioned, was not designed to encourage subprime loans(It was only under Bush II that subprime loans were allowed to go towards banks' CRA requirements) clearly is not responsible for irresponsible lending as evidenced by the irrefutable fact that lending institutions not covered by the CRA were just as eagerly making irresponsible loans and to the same demographic(although loans to high-income individuals have been defaulting at a similar rate). At most, the CRA could be blamed for helping the housing bubble grow, but a housing bubble is inevitable in boom times and the current crisis is a lot more than a crash in the housing market- it's a meltdown of the entire financial sector. To blame that on the CRA is absurd on its face; at worst, it should be considered a minor contributing factor. The fact that the right is so eager to harp on the CRA complete with bullshit language like "social engineering" and "affirmative action" while ignoring the real cause of the problem, the laws that allowed companies to sell bad debt as safe investments and to gorge themselves on these securities, should tell you what they're interested in: not in the truth, not in finding solutions, but in scapegoating and further racially polarizing this election.

The good news is that outside of FreeRepublic and FoxNews, no one is actually buying the bullshit. Most people are thankfully smart enough to lay the blame on Republican economic policy, not them darkies.

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: johnm214]
    #9070390 -

johnm214 said:
Yossarian22 said:
But keep on scapegoating the poor and minorities.



GTFO with that


Phred and the other CRA opponents have never, to my knowledge, stated that blacks as a group are responsible for this- nor any other race.


Thank you.  Clearly the racist here is Yossarian who assumes that any reference to bums and deadbeats means minorities.  Nice going, Yossarian, what you have done is fall prey to the nefarious tyranny of diminished expectations.  In your fucked up world view anything substandard is de facto minority.  Which is the well- spring of your paternalistic fascism.  Daniel Patrick Moynihan, a towering example of a vanishing breed, the Democrat thinker, understood this back in the 60s when he rightly predicted the destruction of the black family as a result of welfare.


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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9070656 -

zappaisgod said:
johnm214 said:
Yossarian22 said:
But keep on scapegoating the poor and minorities.



GTFO with that


Phred and the other CRA opponents have never, to my knowledge, stated that blacks as a group are responsible for this- nor any other race.


Thank you.  Clearly the racist here is Yossarian who assumes that any reference to bums and deadbeats means minorities.  Nice going, Yossarian, what you have done is fall prey to the nefarious tyranny of diminished expectations.  In your fucked up world view anything substandard is de facto minority.  Which is the well- spring of your paternalistic fascism.  Daniel Patrick Moynihan, a towering example of a vanishing breed, the Democrat thinker, understood this back in the 60s when he rightly predicted the destruction of the black family as a result of welfare.


You're specifically attacking the CRA which was a civil-rights legislation designed to end racial discrimination amongst banks. Phred likened it to "affirmative action". It's clear you're not talking about "bums and deadbeats" but that you're clearly referring to racial minorities. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out, especially since the Southern strategy has been such a hallmark of Republic campaigning.

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Yossarian22]
    #9070719 -

Quote:
Yossarian22 said:
It doesn't take a genius to figure it out, especially since the Southern strategy has been such a hallmark of Republic campaigning.


I'm from the southwest, whats the "Southern strategy"?


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Yossarian22]
    #9070799 -

Yossarian22 said:
Blaming a civil rights legislation which in reality had at most a tangential influence on the situation for an international economic meltdown is scapegoating.



so the CRA is not in fact economic but instead a racist piece
of civil rights legislation demanding that blacks get low
income loans? care to post a little proof?



Quote:
Just because it's not explicit doesn't mean it's quite clear in the subtext: All of these problems are caused by racial minorities who were too irresponsible with their money. Instead of placing the blame where it belongs, the far right is trying to make it a racial issue, a referendum on affirmative action, by relying upon stereotypes of racial minorities and black people in particular. That is racism, even if the speaker isn't shouting "nigger" at the top of his lungs like someone at a McCain/Palin rally.



can you show us where anyone said anything racial in regards
to the CRA and this financial crisis, seems the bigot may be
you as you're projecting this on the rest of us, stereotyping
of sorts, just because we dont see it like you do we must be
racists

Quote:
The CRA, which, as has been mentioned, was not designed to encourage subprime loans(It was only under Bush II that subprime loans were allowed to go towards banks' CRA requirements)


so the little bush was in office in 1998?


Quote:
Most people are thankfully smart enough to lay the blame on Republican economic policy, not them darkies.


except it's a democrat issue, they've blocked the legislation
that would have amended the problem before it got to this
point, they're the ones that claimed there was no problem,
they're the ones that enacted the supplemental legislation
that provided the catylist back in the '90s, thanks Bill
Clinton... the problem was brought to the forefront in 98,
again by the bush administration in 2001, again in 2003 and
every time the democrats said there was never a problem


the evidence is out there if you'll just look and quit trying
to make everything a racial issue



--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Yossarian22]
    #9074361 -

Quote:
Yossarian22 said:
Let me get this straight. Investment banks and insurance companies run by centimillionaires blow up, and it's the fault of Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and poor minorities?



LOL!

It makes you wonder how anyone above the level of a clinical idiot could believe this garbage. Presumably when you're desperate you grasp at any straws that  support your delusion.

I just hope the free market fundamentalists will sit back and accept reality rather than continuing in their delusional fantasy. But I doubt it.

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: riceandpeas]
    #9074743 -

> It makes you wonder how anyone above the level of a clinical idiot could believe this garbage.

As I have recommended for others, you would do well to take a long look in a mirror.

I don't think anybody is arguing that the CRA is the only issue that has led to the meltdown.  The argument that I have made, and heard from others, is that it is the nexus (core, or center) of the problem.  Had the CRA not existed, then the housing bubble and resulting meltdown would not have happened.  Everything else that happened, and there is a lot of it with many guilty players from both parties and from greed in the private sector, can be traced back to the CRA.  Had the CRA not been changed by Clinton, then none of the following abuses would have occurred.

Also, only Yossarian22 and a few other bigots are equating the CRA to minorities or racial issues.  The CRA was designed to help low income families, not any specific race, get loans.  Contrary to your racist viewpoint, low income does not discriminate.  Anybody from any race can be a victim of poverty.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Seuss]
    #9074767 -

There's lots of evidence to show beyond all doubt that CRA requirements didn't lead to predatory lending which caused the crisis. Around 80% of high-priced subprime loans were offered by financial institutions not even subject to CRA.

It's a myth being peddeled by conservatives in a bid to restore faith in the "free-market".

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: riceandpeas]
    #9074800 -

there's plenty of evidence showing CRA wasnt the only thing
responsible, lifting the strangle hold from banking was
another contributing factor, allowing them into investments
and insurance certainly helped, when banks started insuring
their own mortgages they were setting themselves up for failure
only there was an out, they could sell the bad paper when
people defaulted, why do you think this bank collapse included
the insurance industry? had banks not been issuing mortgage
insurance on their own loans maybe it would only have affected
the insurance industry

the CRA was simply the beginning


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9075741 -

"Insuring their own mortgages?"  You are officially lost in space.


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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9075931 -

am I?

it wasnt difficult for a subsidiary of wachovia to issue a
mortgage loan and through another daughter company provide PMI
in the even of default, this allowed them more tax breaks due to
losses on the interest as well as the insurance and the ability
for the bad mortgage to still be sold


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9076285 -

PMIs were not the issue.  And it's not a tax break if you pay less taxes because you made less money.


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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9076300 -

PMI is a small part of the issue just as the CRA


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9076490 -

PMI is what homeowners buy.  It's not any part of the issue.  The insurance problem was when the banks bought debt insurance for their packages.  They did not buy it from themselves.  PMI = Private Mortgage Insurance.  A different beast entirely

The CRA is the genesis of the problem.  PMI has nothing at all to do with it.


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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9076590 -

PMI is what home owners buy to ensure the bank is repaid in the
event that the buyer defaults, now with these sub prime loans
PMI is a mandatory thing especially when the buyer isnt
dropping a huge down payment and has a variable rate mortgage
as most hadok so the loans go into default, the PMI pays off
the bank,after a few hundred thousand there's no longer any
money from these bank owned insurance companies to pay on the
million more defaulted loans.... seeing the correlation yet?


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9077031 -

You are incorrect about how PMI works.  They make up the difference between what is owed and what the house is sold for.  And even then, the PMI company tries to make a deal that the owner pays some of the diff.  PMI is not even a tiny part of the problem.  Have you heard anybody make an argument that PMI companies are in trouble because of all they have had to pay out?  Because I haven't.  The insurance being whined about is interbank insurance, credit default swaps.  Not PMI.


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