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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: wildchild68]
    #9063366 -

wildchild68 said:
No man, you don't understand. Every single problem ever can be traced back to the democrats, and only the democrats.

Phred's taught me a lot.



Dominic Lawson: Democrat fingerprints are all over the financial crisis

The least well off are going to face the most stringent terms for mortgages

Friday, 3 October 2008


Of all the characteristics of a successful politician, none is more essential than bare-faced cheek. Never has this been more evident than in the past fortnight, as senior Democrat members of the US legislature have sought to lay all the blame for the country's financial crisis on the executive arm of Government and Wall Street.


Neither of these two institutions is blameless – far from it. Yet when I see such senior Democrats as Barney Frank, Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, and Christopher Dodd, Chairman of the Senate's Banking Committee, play the part of avenging angels – well, I can only stand in silent awe at the sheer tight-bottomed nerve of it. These are men with sphincters of steel.

What is the proximate cause of the collapse of confidence in the world's banks? Millions of improvident loans to American housebuyers. Which organisations were on their own responsible for guaranteeing half of this $12 trillion market? Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, the so-called Government Sponsored Enterprises which last month were formally nationalised to prevent their immediate and catastrophic collapse. Now, who do you think were among the leading figures blocking all the earlier attempts by President Bush – and other Republicans – to bring these lending behemoths under greater regulatory control? Step forward, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.

In September 2003 the Bush administration launched a measure to bring Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac under stricter regulatory control, after a report by outside investigators established that they were not adequately hedging against risks and that Fannie Mae in particular had scandalously mis-stated its accounts. In 2006, it was revealed that Fannie Mae had overstated its earnings – to which its senior executives' bonuses were linked – by a stunning $9.3billion. Between 1998 and 2003, Fannie Mae's executive chairman, Franklin Raines, picked up over $90m in bonuses and stock options.

Yet Barney Frank and his chums blocked all Bush's attempts to put a rein on Raines. During the House Financial Services Committee hearing following Bush's initiative, Frank declared: "The more people exaggerate a threat of safety and soundness [at Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae], the more people conjure up the possibility of serious financial losses to the Treasury which I do not see. I think we see entities that are fundamentally sound financially." His colleague on the committee, the California Democrat Maxine Walters, said: "There were nearly a dozen hearings where we were trying to fix something that wasn't broke. Mr Chairman, we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac and particularly at Fannie Mae under the outstanding leadership of Mr Franklin Raines."

When Mr Raines himself was challenged by the Republican Christopher Shays, to the effect that his ratio of capital to assets (that is, mortgages) of 3 per cent was dangerously low, the Fannie Mae boss retorted that "our assets are so riskless, we could have a capital ratio of under 2 per cent".

Maxine Walters' complaint about previous attempts to bring the great state-sponsored housing finance bodies under stricter control was partly a reference to Bill Clinton's efforts. Last week the former President acknowledged that "responsibility" for the absence of proper regulation rested "with Democrats who were resisting any efforts of Republicans in Congress, and earlier when I was President and tried to impose tighter standards on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac". Then, as now, members of his own party saw all such initiatives as unwonted attacks on the chances for low-earners, and particularly African-Americans, to own their own homes.

From its inception in 1938 Fannie Mae (and later Freddie Mac) was designed to make housing finance available to "ordinary Americans". This was a noble aim. In the 1970s another Democrat President, Jimmy Carter, introduced legislation which demanded that such bodies enhance their lending to minorities. Again, this was based on a noble idea: to stamp out racism in the mortgage market. Thus by 1998 you had the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston producing a document entitled "Closing the Gap: a Guide to Equal Opportunities Lending", which instructed banks that an applicant's "lack of credit history should not be seen as a negative factor" in obtaining a mortgage. As Stephen Malanga of the Manhatta *Institute notes: "Of course the new federal standards couldn't just apply to minorities. If they could pay back loans under these terms, then so could the majority of loan applicants. Quickly, these became the new standards in the industry. As the housing market boomed, banks embraced these new standards with a vengeance. Between 2004 and 2007, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac became the biggest purchasers of subprime mortgages from all kinds of applicants, white and minority, and most of these loans were based on lending standards promoted by the Government."

One of the few journalists to see where this would lead was Jeff Jacoby, of the Boston Globe. Last week he reminded his readers what he had written in 1995: "Our banks are knowingly approving risky loans to get the feds and the activists off their backs... When the coming wave of foreclosures rolls through the inner city, which of today's self-congratulating bankers, politicians and regulators plans to take the credit?". Jacoby adds now: "Barney Frank doesn't. But his fingerprints are all over this fiasco."

It's true that the improvident lending was not initiated by Fannie and Freddie: their role in this was to buy these loans and sell them on – but then the music stopped. Cynical students of the American political system will note that the biggest recipient of campaign contributions from the munificent duo of Fannie and Freddie over the past 20 years was one Christopher Dodd, Democrat Chairman of the Senate's Banking Committee.

Rather surprisingly, given that he has only been in the Senate for four of those years, the second biggest beneficiary was Barack Obama. In August the Washington Post reported that Obama's presidential campaign team had sought the advice of Franklin Raines "on mortgage and housing policy matters". Perhaps Mr Obama's team just wanted to know where all the bodies are buried – there are rather a lot of them.

The saddest outcome of all this within America – apart from the crippling cost to the nation's taxpayers – is that the very people the Democrats had intended to help will be the biggest victims: for many years to come banks will demand the most stringent terms for mortgages to the least well off.

In the meantime, let us praise Congressman Artur Davis of Alabama, who confessed this week: "Like a lot of my Democrat colleagues I was too slow to appreciate the recklessness of Fannie and Freddie when in retrospect I should have heeded the concerns raised. I wish my Democrat colleagues would admit that we were wrong." I fear Congressman Davis will not go far with this attitude – but at least he will be able to look at himself in the mirror.

d.lawson@independent.co.uk

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/dominic-lawson/dominic-lawson-democrat-fingerprints-are-all-over-the-financial-crisis-949653.html


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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Seuss]
    #9063510 -

Seuss said:
Should Obama win, watch for him trying to take away people's guns... it will be the first sign of his true purpose.  :tinfoil:



there's guilt on both sides, liberman and McCain drafted this

http://www.gunlaws.com/evenworse.htm

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Phred]
    #9063567 -

Quote:
Thank you. Got a link for that?



http://www.hud.gov/offices/cpd/affordablehousing/programs/home/addi/



Quote:
This program is not part of the eventual problem, but instead a partial amelioration of the eventual problem. The biggest problem was with mortgages handed out with no down payments at all. Clearly a lender who got a downpayment in addition to the collateral of the property itself is in better shape (not perfect shape, but better shape) than a lender who got no down payment at all. To the lender, it doesn't matter whether the borrower's grandmother coughed up the nut for the down payment or Uncle Sam.



The program still served to increase mortgages to low income citizens.  Just because it aimed at giving people a 10,000 dollar down payment, doesn't mean it didn't increase the number of bad mortgages out there.  Remember the entire idea (in Bush's own words) of this program is that the people would never have gotten the mortgages without the programs assistance.


Quote:
Not in the slightest. The impetus for subprime mortgages was all driven by the Democrats. Calls for the reigning in of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were decried by Democrats as "racist" and resisted strongly. Several threads here have the same YouTube video posted with excerpts from these hearings, showing Maxine Waters and Barney Frank and Chris (?) Meeks and other black Democrats defending FM and FM to the hilt and playing the race card on Repubs calling for stricter oversight of FM and FM.

It was an idea born of the Dems, nurtured by the Dems, and defended by the Dems. The only thing Repubs can be blamed for is knuckling under for fear of being called racist.




So the fact the fed kept interest rates artificially low for the past decade doesn't really have anything to do with this crisis does it.  Or maybe the fact the mortgage institutions were making a killing.  What about the SEC's change in leveraging laws in 2004 that made it possible for all these securities to be traded between banks.  Tell me phred which banks benefited from the change in the leveraging laws, and how well are they doing now.  Its nice to blame the CRA, but how did mortgage institutions such as countrywide fail so badly if they operated outside the scope of the CRA.  Why are default rates across the country high in areas that are not low income.  In fact you should look at the default rates between CRA backed mortgages and those mortgages given out by independent companies not regulated by the CRA.

Like all people who argue that the CRA caused the mortgage crisis you fail to acknowledge any of the other alternative reasons for this crisis, and your sigular hypothesis fails to address the questions posted above.

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Luddite]
    #9063587 -

While you guys argue over who's responsible for what, the "men behind the curtain" are laughing as they further consolidate thier power

can't you see they're both responsible?  they are  2 hands of the same body.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Phred]
    #9063596 -

Phred said:
Daniel Gross is an ignorant buffoon, as the article of his you so helpfully provided proves. I urge the entire audience to read this nonsense so they can see a textbook example of a Libbie living a completely fact-free existence trying to spin a separate reality out of thin air.

Once again, you are late to the party. There are several threads here offering irrefutable proof that banks were bullied into giving out risky loans in order to satisfy CRA requirements, by both government bureaucrats and law firms representing "disenfranchised" borrowers. More articles still showing how Fanny May and Freddie Mac were directed to buy up these crap loans so banks wouldn't be so balky at issuing them.

Did there come a time when some lenders finally abandoned all caution and stopped resisting? Of course. That's not the point. The point is that the banks should never have been maneuvered into that position in the first place. And the only reason they were is because of Affirmative Action.

You can stick your fingers in your ears and squinch your eyes shut all you want, but the fact of the matter is that lenders didn't just all decide one day that all the ironclad rules of sane mortgage lending that had worked well for centuries should be disregarded. The government stepped in and changed the rules of the game. Deny it till you're blue in the face, it makes no nevermind.



Then why were lenders that were not covered by the CRA lending indiscriminately? Maybe because... oh, I dunno, they MADE MONEY DOING SO. I mean, when bank A and bank B both do the same thing and only one is covered by law X, it's absurd to blame law X for that behavior. And why is it that loans under the CRA have performed better than average? But keep on scapegoating the poor and minorities.

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Yossarian22]
    #9063624 -

Because they had a government guaranteed sucker to buy their paper.  And any time you want to prove that loans made under the CRA have outperformed other loans feel free to provide a link.  How can you tell which loans are CRA loans when it wasn't that specific a program?


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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Shins]
    #9063701 -

Shins said:
While you guys argue over who's responsible for what, the "men behind the curtain" are laughing as they further consolidate thier power

can't you see they're both responsible?  they are  2 hands of the same body.



tell that to obama, he says it's all bush

what will we be telling ourselves about the failed bailout in
5 years, will that have been on bush as well since he's still
the president when it passed?

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9063730 -

> will that have been on bush as well since he's still
the president when it passed?

Of course, because Phred has taught me that every single problem ever can be traced back to the democrats, and only the democrats.  Oh wait... umm... gee, I feel stupid now.  :rolleyes:


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9063737 -

Hopefuly by then people will have clued in, and stopped with the diversionary partisan bickering.

"divide and conquer" - from my point of view, Modern day america is almost as divided as it can be.

With all the partisanship, TV watching, Internet etc.  americans are more divided than ever.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Edited by Shins (10/11/08 03:58 PM)

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9063742 -

Read Michael Barr's testimony to the house.

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/financialsvcs_dem/barr021308.pdf

According to him only half of the subprime mortgages were lent by CRA regulated institutions, the rest were lent by independant mortgage companies that were only too happy to lend poor people too much money in order to make a short term profit. 

Also it is Phred making the claim that CRA lending caused this crisis, and this claim is being made without any substance to back it up.  Present some numbers that show a break down of CRA backed mortgages vs those lent outside of the CRAs scope.  Show that a major percentage of the defaulted on mortgages are those in the group backed by the CRA.

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9063860 -

zappaisgod said:
Because they had a government guaranteed sucker to buy their paper.



They didn't need the government to buy that shit(also, it was under Bush that the government started buying up subprime mortgages and had it going towards their CRA requirements)- they could just package it up in securities and sell it on the open market without any meaningful oversight or transparency thanks to McCain's financial guru Phil Gramm.

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: DeepDish]
    #9064148 -

DeepDish writes:

Quote:
Just because it aimed at giving people a 10,000 dollar down payment, doesn't mean it didn't increase the number of bad mortgages out there.



You're not following. There are bad mortgages and then there are bad mortgages. If you have no down payment in your hands, and the borrower defaults, you're left with a 100 grand house. If you got a $10k down payment and the guy defaults, you're left with $10k and a $100k house you can sell for $90k and still break even.

Is it an ideal solution? No... because that $10k came from the taxpayers. But the resulting mortgage associated with that $10k is undeniably more valuable (or less crappy, if you prefer to look at it that way) than a mortgage with no down payment at all.

Quote:
So the fact the fed kept interest rates artificially low for the past decade doesn't really have anything to do with this crisis does it. Or maybe the fact....<snip>...fails to address the questions posted above.



Interest rates were artificially low because the market had been completely distorted by government interference. These things have a ripple effect, you know. It cannot be otherwise. You cannot completely destroy the very foundation of prudent lending without there being repercussions.

I have never said every other actor down the road acted out of the purest of motives, I have only pointed out correctly that if the Dems hadn't strongarmed banks to loan to people no sane banker would have agreed to loan to absent government coercion, none of the rest of the things you mentioned would have happened. Hell, none of the rest of them would have been possible. The root cause of the crisis was Social Engineering. The few people who did predict the inevitable result were either ignored or shouted down as racist fear-mongers.





Phred


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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Phred]
    #9064183 -

> The few people who did predict the inevitable result were either ignored or shouted down as racist fear-mongers.

And then later blamed for causing the mess.  The irony.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Phred]
    #9064366 -

Somewhat related and mostly for amusement..:lol:



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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Phred]
    #9064562 -

I haven't seen any hard numbers in this thread detailing the rate of
mortgage defaults for these nigger loans.

I thought the bulk of the rising foreclosures were for non-owner occupieds.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Phred]
    #9064865 -

Quote:
Interest rates were artificially low because the market had been completely distorted by government interference. These things have a ripple effect, you know. It cannot be otherwise. You cannot completely destroy the very foundation of prudent lending without there being repercussions.



By low interest rates, I meant the interest rates as set by the Fed.  The Fed is the foundation of prudent lending, as malinvestment is far more likely when the rate the banks can borrow at is sent far lower then the market would dictate it.  Do you think if the fed didn't keep interest rates low throughout the duration of the housing bubbling, the banks would have been so anxious to lend? 

Quote:
I have never said every other actor down the road acted out of the purest of motives, I have only pointed out correctly that if the Dems hadn't strongarmed banks to loan to people no sane banker would have agreed to loan to absent government coercion, none of the rest of the things you mentioned would have happened. Hell, none of the rest of them would have been possible. The root cause of the crisis was Social Engineering. The few people who did predict the ineviI have never said every other actor down the road acted out of the purest of motives, I have only pointed out correctly that if the Dems hadn't strongarmed banks to loan to people no sane banker would have agreed to loan to absent government coercion, none of the rest of the things you mentioned would have happened. Hell, none of the rest of them would have been possible. The root cause of the crisis was Social Engineering. The few people who did predict the inevitable result were either ignored or shouted down as racist fear-mongers.table result were either ignored or shouted down as racist fear-mongers.



Phred I need some data.  Just because you say the CRA is a root cause doesn't make it so.  You need to prove the correlation.  Again if you look at the subprime loan demographic data non-minorities compose a significant portion.  And of that portion many borrowers have above the median income for the area they live in.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119205925519455321.html

These loans most definatly don't fall under the scope of the CRA.  Banks were giving risky loans to people of all races and income levels.  It wasn't just poor minorities that were getting these loans.  If the only reason the banks were giving the loans is because they were being strong armed by the government, why in the world would they not limit the lending only too poor minorities?  Why would these banks extend this risky credit to people who don't even come close to falling under the demographic outlined by the CRA if the only reason they were offering it in the first place was because of democratic policies? 


I completely agree that the CRA played a role in the crisis, but its role was a minor one.  If the banks had kept their high risk lending to only poor minorities, and prevented the rampant speculation that occured due to upper income investors this would not be a crisis that is bringing the world economy to a halt.

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: DeepDish]
    #9064981 -

Quote:
Banks were giving risky loans to people of all races and income levels.



But.. but.. that keeps us from using the crisis to demonize others with partisan scapegoating!!

Where's the fun in that?


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: DeepDish]
    #9065144 -

Quote:
By low interest rates, I meant the interest rates as set by the Fed.  The Fed is the foundation of prudent lending, as malinvestment is far more likely when the rate the banks can borrow at is sent far lower then the market would dictate it.  Do you think if the fed didn't keep interest rates low throughout the duration of the housing bubbling, the banks would have been so anxious to lend? 



It's all interrelated. You cannot possibly make as fundamental change as dropping the requirement for a down payment for the largest purchase the vast majority of people will ever make in their lives without causing repercussions everywhere else in the market. Interest rates are affected by hundreds of different factors. Would the Fed have set the interest rates they way they did in the absence of such things as MBSs? No, they wouldn't have. The subprime mortgage phenomenon resulted in major, MAJOR behavioral differences in the investment fields. No rational observer can deny that. My point is - and has always been - that absent the massive coercion exerted by government and NGOs (such as ACORN) who engaged in mau-mauing lending institutions into doing fiscally insane things, they would not have done fiscally insane things.

As proof, I point to the record - initially, they resisted to the utmost doing these fiscally insane things. They had to be bullied and coerced into doing it. Legislation, inspectors, lawsuits. No bank could grow unless it played the game. Of the carrot and stick approach, initially the only thing in play was the stick.

At a later point, the carrot was brought into the equation as well - banks no longer had to eat the loss when their flakey borrower bolted on them: Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac happily bought the iffy paper before it ever got to that point. No more risk for the banks at all. Happy days are here again!

But never forget the original idea came not from the banks, but from the social engineers. Remember, the evil capitalistic banks were conspiring to keep the underclass down, through the malicious practice of "redlining". They clung bitterly to their redlining the way a backwoods hillbilly clings to his religion and guns. They would still be denying the underclass mortgages had the Libbies not gone on a crusade to change that.

Quote:
Again if you look at the subprime loan demographic data non-minorities compose a significant portion.  And of that portion many borrowers have above the median income for the area they live in.



Of course they do! Look, you still don't get it. The rules of the game were changed! By government! I really don't know how I can express this more clearly.

Obviously if it's now okay to loan to some guy with no down payment, no credit history, and no prospects, who is allowed to count as income welfare payments - seriously, I am not making this up: welfare payments counted on these applications - anyway... if that guy is an acceptable risk, how can you possibly claim some other guy with a steady job, excellent credit history and a five per cent down payment in hand should be denied the same deal as the shiftless bum I just described? Answer - you can't. And guess what? Fanny Mae or Freddie Mac will take his mortgage off your hands, too! No one here is claiming the only bad paper floating around is that which started life as a mortgage held by a ghetto-dweller.

The CRA (not so much in its original relatively mild form as enacted in the Carter years, but in its beefed-up form from the Clinton years) was a paradigm-shifting piece of legislation. Fluctuating interest rates are not paradigm-shifting events. Interest rates go up and down all the time.

There's a reason cliches are coined. Here's one we've heard before - the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The CRA was enacted not out of malice but with the intent of helping people. It was a good-intentioned piece of legislation, just one that wasn't thought through all the way. You are correct in that the CRA as originally written wouldn't alone have led to this point. The banks would just have continued doing everything they could have to avoid complying with it. Every now and then one of them might have been sued or fined, but that would have been it. What really accelerated the mess was when the government got tired of investigating and fining and suing the non-compliers and decided it would be easier to just direct FM and FM to buy the shit paper off the banks. Once that aspect of the equation was changed, the banks acquiesced. Why wouldn't they?

The thing is, there would have been no shit paper for FM and FM to buy (or very little of it) had the CRA warriors not been doing their thing.

Quote:
If the banks had kept their high risk lending to only poor minorities, and prevented the rampant speculation that occured due to upper income investors this would not be a crisis that is bringing the world economy to a halt.



This has been explained before, too. I believe it was zap who first did so, and in more detail than I'm about to here, but I'll do it here again briefly. You really should dig up some of the older threads, though -

The sudden increase in buyers triggered a boom. You've got a lot more people looking for houses, therefore housing prices rise. So buying property, then selling it for a profit a year down the road makes sense. Of course investors (as opposed to people just looking for a house in which to live) will get on board. And when these investors go looking for a mortgage, they are naturally going to demand the same deal Leroy down on the corner got - no down payment, adjustable rate, the whole nine yards. And the bank is going to give him those terms because -

- if they don't he'll take his business to someone who will
- he's a far better credit risk than Leroy
- the bank is not going to hold the paper anyway, FM and FM will.

This is ALWAYS what happens (to varying degrees, of course) when government interferes in the markets - the government action is based not on good financial sense, it is based on "justice" or "protecting the innocent" or some other claptrap, and it is mandated through the implied threat of force. This interference cannot help but result in deleterious effects; if people are doing something only because they are forced to do so, it is something it would have made no sense to do in the first place. If it did make sense you wouldn't have to force them to do it.







Phred


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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Phred]
    #9066593 -

Talk about timing. After me spending all that time composing my last post, Allahpundit posts this:

Quote:
The quotes that explain the entire financial meltdown

For those who want a smoking gun to show the genesis of the financial collapse, this short sequence from a longer video I posted this week will do it. Clinton HUD Secretary Andrew Cuomo announced a settlement of a lending discrimination complaint with Accubanc, a Texas lender whose prerequisites for mortgages came under attack from “community organizers” at the Fort Worth Human Relations Commission and the city of Dallas. I clipped out this sequence to underscore its importance:

** sorry, guys, this is not a YouTube video - I don't know how to embed it. Click to go to Allahpundit if you want to watch**

Quote:
CUOMO: To take a greater risk on these mortgages, yes. To give families mortgages that they would not have given otherwise, yes.

Q: [unintellible] … that they would not have given the loans at all?

CUOMO: They would not have qualified but for this affirmative action on the part of the bank, yes.

Q: Are minorities represented in that low and moderate income group?

CUOMO: It is by income, and is it also by minorities? Yes.

CUOMO: With the 2.1 billion, lending that amount in mortgages — which will be a higher risk, and I’m sure there will be a higher default rate on those mortgages than on the rest of the portfolio …



Here, in fact, is the genesis of the problem, the ideology that created the monster.  Cuomo, the Clinton administration, and Congress believed they had the right and the power to determine acceptable risk for the lenders, rather than lenders determining it for themselves in a free market.  Even while imposing risk standards on lenders, Cuomo admits that he expects a higher default rate on the new loans — which is why the lenders didn’t want to write them in the first place.

In other words, the CRA didn’t get used to fight discrimination, but to force lenders to give money to high-risk borrowers for political purposes.  And Cuomo knew it.

That was the political arrogance at the heart of the collapse.  However, the CRA was more a sideshow than the actual problem.  When Congress decided that enforcement alone wouldn’t generate enough mortgages to boost their political fortunes, they had Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac eliminate the risk entirely for lenders through the purchase of the subprime loans.  Without that risk and with almost-guaranteed short-term profits of subprime loans, lenders went wild while Fannie and Freddie repackaged them as quasi-government bonds for investors.

While Democrats like Barack Obama, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi keep blaming “greed” for the collapse, it was Democrats like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd building that “greed” into the system in order to drive the subprime lending market.  And it was Democrats like Frank, Dodd, Maxine Waters, and Lacy Clay who suggested that regulators like Armando Falcon were racists for blowing the whistle on the Ponzi scheme they created.

The Democrats decided, as Michelle says, that mortgages were a civil right, and wouldn’t cost the American taxpayers a dime.  How well is that working out, America?  And now, the question you have to ask yourselves is this: Do you want the nation’s economic policies run by Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, and Frank for the next two years?



As I (and Seuss and zappaisgod) have said over and over, the CRA was the root cause. The genesis, as Allahpundit calls it. But what really opened the floodgate was not so much the CRA itself, even in its beefed up bully mode, it was the decision to direct Fannie May and Freddie Mac to buy up subprime loans. Any and all subprime loans, not just subprime loans to minorities. However, without the CRA, that direction would never have been given.

The root cause of the problem is directly and unequivocally traceable to social engineering by Democrats. A mortgage as a civil right, in other words.




Phred


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Re: Social Engineering by Democrats Destroys the World's Financial Markets [Re: Phred]
    #9066778 -

Quote:
It's all interrelated. You cannot possibly make as fundamental change as dropping the requirement for a down payment for the largest purchase the vast majority of people will ever make in their lives without causing repercussions everywhere else in the market.



This is false.  The CRA does not require banks to drop the down payment for a vast majority of those seeking loans. 

Quote:
Would the Fed have set the interest rates they way they did in the absence of such things as MBSs? No, they wouldn't have. The subprime mortgage phenomenon resulted in major, MAJOR behavioral differences in the investment fields. No rational observer can deny that. My point is - and has always been - that absent the massive coercion exerted by government and NGOs (such as ACORN) who engaged in mau-mauing lending institutions into doing fiscally insane things, they would not have done fiscally insane things.




This is ridiculous.  Again do you have any evidence at all that the Fed was setting monetary policy due to MBSs.  The Fed lowered interest rates to prevent a recession after the dotcom collapse.  Greespan stated this numerous times.  In fact if you look at a graph of Fed interest rates vs the number of risky loans lent you will see a striking correlation.   

  Look at other "speculative bubbles" that have happened around the world.  Take Japan in the 1980s which suffered its own realestate bubble.  The main cause; low interest rates leading to malinvestment in realestate and stocks.  Japan lost trillions when the bubble burst and caused the economy to go through a 17 year downturn.  This all happened without the "paradigm shifting" piece of legislation called the CRA. 


Quote:
Of course they do! Look, you still don't get it. The rules of the game were changed! By government! I really don't know how I can express this more clearly.




Yes the rules of the game changed.  Banks that fell under CRA legislation had to increase their loans to minorities.  Besides that nothing was forced on the banks.  They were not forced to lower their lending standards in any other way.  Again you still haven't shown that loans given by banks under CRA rule have a higher rate of default then those loans.

Quote:
Answer - you can't. And guess what? Fanny Mae or Freddie Mac will take his mortgage off your hands, too! No one here is claiming the only bad paper floating around is that which started life as a mortgage held by a ghetto-dweller.



But you can.  A bank can refuse a risky loan to rich white person, with no danger of being strong armed by the government.  In fact if these loans are really as "financially insane" as you claim it would be in the banks best interest to limit the loans only to those minorities that MUST receive them by law.

Fannie and Freddie actually had pretty strict standards on the loans they would take.  Remember Freddie and Fannie weren't the only chop shops in the business.  In fact most of the really risky loans (liar loans) were not purchased by Freddie and Fannie but rather by completely private enterprises that divided them into securities and sold them with a AAA rating.


Quote:
The CRA (not so much in its original relatively mild form as enacted in the Carter years, but in its beefed-up form from the Clinton years) was a paradigm-shifting piece of legislation. Fluctuating interest rates are not paradigm-shifting events. Interest rates go up and down all the time.



But interest rates are correlated to speculation and malinvestment in an economy.  You are trying to say that a law enacted in 1995 led to a boom almost a decade later.  I'm saying the bubble really started to inflate around 2000, around the same time the fed lowered interest rates to pevent the dotcom collapse from causing a recession.  This was a paradigm shifting event.  If you look at any of the economists that predicted the housing bubble they all said the same thing, lowered interest rates after the dotcom boom is causing malinvestment in the housing market which will lead grossly overinflated real estate values.  Youtube Peter Schiff and watch any of his television appearances between 2002 and 2006.

Quote:
Every now and then one of them might have been sued or fined, but that would have been it. What really accelerated the mess was when the government got tired of investigating and fining and suing the non-compliers and decided it would be easier to just direct FM and FM to buy the shit paper off the banks. Once that aspect of the equation was changed, the banks acquiesced. Why wouldn't they?



Phred, Freddie and Fannie were not the only businesses buying up the shit paper!  Again there were plenty of private firms that existed without any government backing that were more then happy to buy up the risky paper.  As I stated before Freddie and Fannie actually had fairly strict standards dealing with the mortgages they would underwrite.  It is a misconception that Freddie and Fannie failed because they took on too many risky mortgages, in fact they went under because they invested too heavily in the AAA rated mortgage securities created by other businesses outside the scope of the covernment.



Quote:
The sudden increase in buyers triggered a boom. You've got a lot more people looking for houses, therefore housing prices rise. So buying property, then selling it for a profit a year down the road makes sense. Of course investors (as opposed to people just looking for a house in which to live) will get on board. And when these investors go looking for a mortgage, they are naturally going to demand the same deal Leroy down on the corner got - no down payment, adjustable rate, the whole nine yards. And the bank is going to give him those terms because -
- if they don't he'll take his business to someone who will
- he's a far better credit risk than Leroy
- the bank is not going to hold the paper anyway, FM and FM will.



You just don't get it.  No bank, not a single one was required to give the risky loans they did. If you can prove otherwise, demonstrate with sources and numbers.  The banks could have very easily turned the investors down, they were not required in any way to lend them money.  If the investor takes his money elsewhere, then the bank is still better off.  At least they didn't loose money on the loan.  Again phred you haven't shown that loans made under the CRA program are any more risky than those subprime loans given to wannabe realestate speculators.  Banks gave out lots of loans that were far more risky then anything mandated by the CRA to non-minority, above median income, borrowers.  I discussed Freddie and Fannie above, the CRA has little to do with the underlying reasons why so much shit paper was bought up.

Quote:
This is ALWAYS what happens (to varying degrees, of course) when government interference in the markets - the government action is based not on good financial sense, it is based on "justice" or "protecting the innocent" or some other claptrap, and it is mandated through the implied threat of force. This interference cannot help but result in deleterious effects; if people are doing something only because they are forced to do so, it is something it would have made no sense to do in the first place. If it did make sense you wouldn't have to force them to do it.



I completely agree that government interference in the markets is a bad thing.  I just see the governments fixing of interest rates, allowing the banks to make credit default swaps and leverage their capital 40:1, played a much larger role then a law passed in 1995 that ONLY pertained to minorities.  The housing crisis in both Europe (current) and Japan (80's) both lend support to my claim that banks will make risky loans regardless of government mandates in the hopes of making short term profits.   

I also predict that commercial realesate will experiance a major bust in the United States\Europe as well.  It already is experiancing a major downturn.  This will be in the final nail in the coffin for the CRA hypothesis, unless you can also claim the government was forcing the banks to lend money to minority commercial developers.

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