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Ah, I see the problem.  You still need the acid since you have to make the Ehrlich's reagent yourself.  Although I have seen some form of it ready made somewhere.

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well im getting 20g of p-DMAB from Alan in trade for 8 silica plates from PureChem   schweet!  i thought p-DMAB ( 4-(Dimethylamino)benzaldehyde )is Ehrlich's reagent which contains HCL? 

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Ehrlich's reagent which is used as the last step to make the indole spots visible on the plate and not used in extraction or as the developing solvent

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It wouldn't hurt to try several solvent systems but I would prefer to use as many readily available materials as possible so others can duplicate the effort.

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Bung and Bigwood: Ehrlich's (or Van Urk's) reagent [10% p-dimethylaminobenzaldehyde (pDAB) in conc. hydrochloric acid] was freshly prepared and sprayed in an acetone solution (1 part of Ehrlich's reagent to 4 parts of acetone)

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a few things i read about n-butonal/glacial acetic acid/water solvent system is it give 13 spots plus psilocybin and psilocin.  spots are very clean and resolved with Bung and Bigwood on silica plates.

i want to try glacial acetic acid/water as a solvent system AND as a extraction solution (C. B. Gold).  becuase we would only have to buy glacial acetic acid to replace HEET gas additive and iso and ammonia! schweeet!

now only if sporeworks would carry p-DMAB, glacial acetic acid, silica plates (resell for PureChem), mini air brush kit, microcaps, mortar and pestle,and maybe resell for JustTLC and maybe sell n-butanol, etc and were all set!! haha.  that would be GREAT!  one stop shopping for real! !!

im thinking of copying  Bung and Bigwood so i have some kind of example to follow and see if i screwed up somewhere but they where testing Psilocybe Baeocystis not P.cubensis in "Quantitative Analysis of Psilocybin and Psilocin in Psilocybe Baeocytis by High-Performance Liquid Chromatography and by Thin-Layer Chromatography".  what are your  thoughts about there results of P.Baeocystis vs possible results of P.Cubensis and other species?  apples and oranges?  can ANY spots be corralled between species?

if i copy Bung and Bigwood they call for mixing 1 part of Ehrlich's reagent to 4 parts of acetone before spraying.  whats are your thoughts on this?  i  am thinking of trying it vs plain Ehrlich's reagent.  LOTS of testings to do!

i found a good source of glacial acetic acid and n-butonal.  i will order some and i could send you a some ml of each if you want

glacial acetic acid: (500ml $53)
http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=8836044

n-butonal: (25ml $44)
http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=8806749

also i found the same silica TLC plates Bung and Bigwood used.  there Merck "Classical Silica TLC Plates".  those plates are alomost identical to the PureChems plates and the PureChems plates are WAYYYY cheaper

Merck plates:
http://www.merck-chemicals.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/Merck-International-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewProductDetail-Start?CatalogCategoryID=zWmb.s1LzOQAAAEWuOAfVhTl&ProductUUID=UwWb.s1OwIQAAAEWLTcW4z8l&PortalCatalogUUID=t02b.s1LX0MAAAEWc9UfVhTl



I am rereading both of these papers, they are just great source of info.  the thing im most fuzzy about is creating the standard but the C.B. Gold paper covers it pretty well but im REALLY INTERESTED to read your input on your method and hopefully pics too!


"Quantitative Analysis of Psilocybin and Psilocin in Psilocybe Baeocytis by High-Performance Liquid Chromatography and by Thin-Layer Chromatography"
Journal of Chromatography, 207 (1981) 379-385, Bung and Bigwood

--im trying to getting the paper copy of this tomorrow and scan it into a PDF, i think the lycaem version is missing info and pics.  if you want it ill upload the original document as a PDF for you.


"THE MUSHROOM ENTHEOGEN: The Measure of the Mushroom"
by C. B. Gold

--this one has a LOTS of great info about using just glacial acetic acid/waer and other great info.  im sure youve read it but each time i read it i understand more and feel more confident.  there is a good amount of info on standards in that paper too.


after i read those two papers a few more times and do a bit more research and think more ill try to post more coherent thoughts.  ill ask my gf for help!

oh and about the standard solution.  each person would have to make there own right?  any change in the methodology can really mess up the results right?  im thinking about the TLC container for example. if someone uses a differnt size with a different level of solvent system they will get skewed results if comparing against someone elses standard.  like apples to oranges right?

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You are farther ahead on your shopping list than I am and I haven't tried the software yet since its time limited unless purchased. 

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yea i wish i had not installed JustTLC yet as im still about one month from testing, but i needed to reinstall my OS anyway.

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I am slowly getting the needed materials as I move ahead so its going to be awhile before I have a complete system working to produce good numbers.  Just playing with the Erhlichs at the moment which is pretty entertaining so far.  This is just a side project for me. 

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if you wanted to spend like $150-250 you could prolly get everything you need and run full TLC test by next week!   AWESOME!

ill send you silica plates from PureChems and microcaps and some n-butanol and glacial acetic acid if you want, for free!  and i can send you my air brush with mini compressor to use for a week or so too and then you can send it back.  id LOVE to see your results sooner than latter.  PM me if that is something you want.

im starting in a month so any thougts you have i would love to read!  maybe use this thread as a thought dump? or PM me?  like maybe just how your planing on finding your standard?  thats what im most fuzzy about.  everything else i think i can fudge my way along.  with a few PMs to you for help?



Oh yea, i think investing in a fingernail air brush maybe the best and eaiset way to apply the Ehrlich's reagent in a super fine mist.  i remember reading something you posted about air brushes?

haha, imagine using this in a pinch!  how would you explain it?  haha.  i wonder how the spray is?  "Girl Crush Air Brush Glitter Tattoo Kit" $17.95 at Walmart!
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5984210



ebay Baby! 

Mini air compressor ($26.99):
http://cgi.ebay.com/TESTORS-Mini-Air-Compressor-50204-NEW-Airbrush-Hobby_W0QQitemZ260297298903QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260297298903&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


Airbrush, Air Brush Kit + Compressor Adaptor ($3.49):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hobby-Airbrush-Air-Brush-Kit-Compressor-Adaptor-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c39Q3a1Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem260295282299QQitemZ260295282299


OR, i may invest this this 'kit' for $99 "AIRBRUSH CITY AIR COMPRESSOR 3 AIR BRUSH KIT s 1600-3K":
http://cgi.ebay.com/AIRBRUSH-CITY-AIR-COMPRESSOR-3-AIR-BRUSH-KIT-s-1600-3K_W0QQitemZ320300379364QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320300379364&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1309&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
--but this kit could be too strong and the two above could be better?  thoughts?



tnx!   im really interested in using TLC with scanning for identification of wild mushrooms using known standards and to test wild  mushrooms for toxins.  and for qualification of psilocin and psilocybe of wild musrhooms etc.  i think this could be greatly helpful.  and of course to test for quantity too!!!

hey guys

thx workman   im looking forward to more of your testing.  ill start messing with it in a month or so.

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Workman said:
Metol is unreliable.  I'll keep working on a field test.

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Testing Chemical Reactions

by Michael Kuo


How a mushroom's surfaces, flesh, and spores react to the application of certain chemicals can be important information in the identification process. In some cases, nearly identical mushrooms can be easily differentiated by simply applying a drop of common household ammonia to the cap!


It is important to test for chemical reactions on fresh mushrooms, preferably within an hour of picking them. This is not always possible, unless you are willing to carry chemicals with you when you're collecting. But try to test mushrooms as soon as possible when you get home, remembering that the longer you wait, the less reliable your results may be.


Below are details on three chemicals commonly used by mycologists to identify mushrooms, as well as commentary on chemical testing.

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tr8orjohn said:

Also, someone mentioned freeware software...any links or names to google? While I haven't *seen* TLC utilized quantitatively, the science behind it is sound...I just feel dirty paying $450 for software

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Hey all,


I found another good study which uses TLC in a very similar method to what we are talking about.  I've attached the PDF with others to this post but I also uploaded them to megashare as "tr8orjohn" said his/her computer was infected from flyshare (which I find doubtful if one only downloads the file and keeps Java and hopefully Javascript disabled which is a compulsory action in anonymity circles...)


Here are some screen shots of the method the mycologists used in this paper:

"Relationship of Carbon and Nitrogen Nutrition of Psilocybe baeocystis to the Production of Psilocybin and its Analogs"

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tr8orjohn  said
Also, to the person who linked to flyupload...I think I have a bit of malware that it installed on my system...if you could upload the TLC rar's to a different upload server it would be appreciated...once I manage to cleanse my system of whatever it put on there

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Anyhow, since I am sure that was confusing enough...decide on a standard procedure to solubize the psilocybin in your mushroom sample. An example (and not necessarily a good one, have to look up concentration ranges for p. cubensis...) is to take 1 gram of dried mushroom powder and dissolve in 100mL of methanol (disolves actives well, and evaporates quickly when its spotted), heat over a water bath (if you want to...) for 10 minutes and then filter. Now, lets make a 10mg standard...take 10mg measured as precisely as possible (doesn't need to be exactly that amount, but you do need to know exactly how much is in it...ie 11.6 mg is fine so long as you *know* that) and dissolve it in 100mL methanol, heat like you would the mushrooms, and filter like you would with the mushie sample.

The idea being that afterwards you can compare the two spots...in this example, if the two spots came out to be the same size, you can legitamately estimate that your 1 gram of mushie has the same amount of actives as your standard...or 10mg. This is also the point where you decide you should send people sporeprints

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So the 10mg standard could be one mushroom from say a test group of ten mushrooms (samples).  Then I would test the other nine mushroom samples *against* the standard and the samples which spot equal to, or greater than (in quantitative terms) the standard would be used for further growth...and printing?

But for our/my purposes 'close enough' is probably good enough as were starting from a poor position (TLC).  So I would assume using tryptamine HCL might be the easiest method...I need to re-read this thread again...*sigh*

I need to hire my friend to do it with me the first time, I'm much more  of a visual learner, though that video AC posted (and I reposted) helped a good bit.

Thanks!