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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: Ferris]
    #8963045 -

Ferris said:
Sounds more like chance, a LOT of chance, over a long period of time.



what's the chances that a cat and a horse can mate?
that's 2 living things as opposed to the chances of two
inanimate its of matter combining and creating life.

science hasnt even come close to replicating it based on any
of the models, they've taken a 'top down' approach, reverse
engineering to determine at what point life could be created


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8963051 -

> Frankly, I can't understand how anyone who believes in the soul and god and all that jazz can reconcile support for abortion.

Because faith is a convenience to use for supporting ones arguments when needed, and something to be ignored when not needed.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: Seuss]
    #8963063 -

Seuss said:
> The courts have said clearly that the state can not involve itself in any action which endorses one religion over any other.

In God we trust.
One nation, under God, ...


The Pledge of Allegiance case was dismissed not because of issues regarding constitutionality, but because they found that the father of the child did not have standing to bring the suit on behalf of her daughter.

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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8963066 -

zappaisgod said:
Science is testable and mutable.  Dogma is not.  Given that there is significant evidence for evolution 



there is plenty of evidence in support of evolution, theres
several models on the origin of life, yet there's no evidence
supporting any of them, hence we have the scientific dogma


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8963069 -

Prisoner#1 said:
Entropymancer said:
Quote:
it takes as much faith to believe sciences version of origin as it does to believe any other


No, it doesn't.  But to believe religious creation over the Theory of Evolution takes a high degree of ignorance (not necessarily stupidity, but ignorance of the facts of the matter).


abiogenesis from the scientific view suggests that a little
inorganic matter and inanimate organic molecules got together
and had a little too much wine and one thing led to another
and the generation of life occurred... sounds pretty well
rooted in faith to me... to believe either requires faith


Sure, that's a legitimate viewpoint.  But notice that abiogenesis has nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution.  They're two spereate ideas.  You can disbelieve abiogenesis all you want.  But to disbelieve that we descended from bacteria is ignorance, plain and simple.


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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8963082 -

Prisoner#1 said:
Ferris said:
Sounds more like chance, a LOT of chance, over a long period of time.



what's the chances that a cat and a horse can mate?
that's 2 living things as opposed to the chances of two
inanimate its of matter combining and creating life.

science hasnt even come close to replicating it based on any
of the models, they've taken a 'top down' approach, reverse
engineering to determine at what point life could be created


Obviously cells are much less complex, and the transformation to cells was gradual.  By the way, all matter is animate.  Look at the Earth system.  It may not be replicable, but it's a large, self-sustaining system, that is an order of magnitude more complex than any life.  Are you saying that the Earth doesn't exist?  Or more likely, "God" made Earth too.


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Discuss Politics

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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: Entropymancer]
    #8963085 -

Entropymancer said:
But notice that abiogenesis has nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution.  They're two spereate ideas.  You can disbelieve abiogenesis all you want.  But to disbelieve that we descended from bacteria is ignorance, plain and simple.


they may be 2 seperate theories/models but they're closely
ties, without an origin there should be no life to evolve, it
falls back to faith unless bacteria just spontaneously
generated from nothing like matter in the big bang which again
leads us to faith


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: Redstorm]
    #8963086 -

Redstorm said:
Quote:
Why are you so bossy?


I'll remember this quote the next time you start bitching about people stealing your tax money.


Why?  It is perfectly consistent.  When the gummint takes my money they become the bosses of it.  The fuckers.
Quote:
Degradation of the learning environment is an externality that effects everyone in our country. Our primary schools have already sunk to such a horrendous level that dumbing it down with religious nonsense is hardly acceptable.


I think people have the right to be as stupid as they want.  Do you think you are some kind of benevolent patriarch ready willing and able to act as a dictator of that which is good?  How do you feel about banning fast food restaurants?
Quote:
Also, where does the establishment of a religion end? If we teach creationism in science class, do we have to teach Hindu reincarnation along with all the other fairy tales ever created and followed mindlessly? The courts have said clearly that the state can not involve itself in any action which endorses one religion over any other.  Teaching the merits (which supposedly exist) of creationism without teaching the merits of any other religion violates this.


I am not aware that there are any merits and I have read most of the debate.  But that is irrelevant.  Their kids, their money, their bullshit.  I do not think that society has an interest in how students are taught because I do not believe that society can have interests.  "Society" is an abstract concept and I don't give a fuck what some douche with a sociology degree tells me is "good for society".  That is anathema to me and speaks against everything I believe about human individualism.  One of my most closely held beliefs is that only I can say what is in my interest and whatever I say is in my interest is in my interest.  No matter what some paternalistic jerkoff says.  We are not ants.


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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8963096 -

Prisoner#1 said:
zappaisgod said:
Science is testable and mutable.  Dogma is not.  Given that there is significant evidence for evolution 



there is plenty of evidence in support of evolution, theres
several models on the origin of life, yet there's no evidence
supporting any of them, hence we have the scientific dogma


What scientific dogma on the origin of life are you referring to?  All I've ever heard is that nobody knows, which doesn't really strike me as very dogmatic.


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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: Ferris]
    #8963103 -

Ferris said:
Obviously cells are much less complex, and the transformation to cells was gradual.


but there were no cells

Quote:
  By the way, all matter is animate.


is silica animate? is it in fact a form of life


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8963110 -

Prisoner#1 said:
Ferris said:
Obviously cells are much less complex, and the transformation to cells was gradual.


but there were no cells

Quote:
  By the way, all matter is animate.


is silica animate? is it in fact a form of life


No and no


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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8963113 -

Prisoner#1 said:
Entropymancer said:
But notice that abiogenesis has nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution.  They're two spereate ideas.  You can disbelieve abiogenesis all you want.  But to disbelieve that we descended from bacteria is ignorance, plain and simple.


they may be 2 seperate theories/models but they're closely
ties, without an origin there should be no life to evolve, it
falls back to faith unless bacteria just spontaneously
generated from nothing like matter in the big bang which again
leads us to faith


Usually, when someone points out that they are two separate theories, they mean that abiogenisis may not have occurred on Earth, and then point towards the panspermia theory (life arrived on earth through "spores").

It opens up the possibility of a much wider chance of random chemical processes starting replication.


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Discuss Politics

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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8963118 -

zappaisgod said:
Prisoner#1 said:
Ferris said:
Obviously cells are much less complex, and the transformation to cells was gradual.


but there were no cells

Quote:
  By the way, all matter is animate.


is silica animate? is it in fact a form of life


No and no


ALL matter is animate


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Discuss Politics

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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8963131 -

zappaisgod said:
What scientific dogma on the origin of life are you referring to?  All I've ever heard is that nobody knows, which doesn't really strike me as very dogmatic.



abiogenisis


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8963137 -

Quote:
I think people have the right to be as stupid as they want.  Do you think you are some kind of benevolent patriarch ready willing and able to act as a dictator of that which is good?  How do you feel about banning fast food restaurants?


Pure, irrelevant idiocy.

With federal, state, and local money going to schools, shouldn't I as a tax payer have a say as well?

It's not as if it matters anyways. What the courts have stated about the Establishment Clause is clear and if the parents don't like the lack of religion in school, they can send their kids to private schools or amend the Constitution. That is, unless we feel like teaching every other religion in science class as well.

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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: Ferris]
    #8963144 -

Ferris said:
ALL matter is animate


so silica isnt matter

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inanimate

    in·an·i·mate Listen to the pronunciation of inanimate
Pronunciation:
    \(ˌ)i-ˈna-nə-mət\
Function:
    adjective
Etymology:
    Middle English, from Late Latin inanimatus, from Latin in- + animatus, past participle of animare to animate
Date:
    15th century

1: not animate: a: not endowed with life or spirit <an inanimate object> b: lacking consciousness or power of motion <an inanimate body> 2: not animated or lively : dull


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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8963163 -

Lacking power of motion, eh?

I'm not saying silica will be turning into a dancing broomstick any time soon.


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Discuss Politics

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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: Ferris]
    #8963167 -

Ferris said:
Usually, when someone points out that they are two separate theories, they mean that abiogenisis may not have occurred on Earth, and then point towards the panspermia theory (life arrived on earth through "spores").


and each having a foundation of faith because 'no one knows'
the origins of life as of yet and to say unequivocally that
one thing did not happen  but it could have happened 600
different ways with out the knowledge would be unscientific,
which scientits are out there testing the model of creation,
which ones are trying to speak life into existence?


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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: Ferris]
    #8963174 -

Ferris said:
Lacking power of motion, eh?


a: not endowed with life


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Re: McCain stretching the truth again [Re: Redstorm]
    #8963179 -

Lets get all federal money out of the schools, then the local fools can vote for whatever they want.  How is federal money for schools constitutional?  Render unto the states that which is the states.

A great many people have argued that the Establishment clause has been horribly expanded far beyond any original intent.  How do you stand on legislation by justices?  You seem to be quite in favor of it.  An unelected patriarchy, unfireable and unaccountable, ruling over everythhing?

I think this is yet another point where they have overstepped.


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General Interest > Political Discussion
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