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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path'
    #8512681 -

and still be a conscious liar and a cheat? Can one be considered living the 'service-to-others' philosophy without making good on personal obligations and commitments?

Or are they merely deceiving themselves and playing pretend spiritual devotee?

Is it OK to play the 'we are not perfect' card whenever such a person is called on their bullshit?


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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8512785 -

good question, I do not know the answer

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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8512852 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
and still be a conscious liar and a cheat? Can one be considered living the 'service-to-others' philosophy without making good on personal obligations and commitments?

Or are they merely deceiving themselves and playing pretend spiritual devotee?

Is it OK to play the 'we are not perfect' card whenever such a person is called on their bullshit?


The answer is YES. We are all on the path of personal advancement and seeking joy and love. The fact that we often act unskillfully and don't get what we are after is par for the course. It takes lots of practice and experience to make progress for most of us. Life will use the results of our actions as a wake up call which we may be ready to heed or not at that time.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8512964 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Or are they merely deceiving themselves and playing pretend


I like to pretend that self deception is not possible....    :grin:



Quote:
Is it OK to play the 'we are not perfect' card whenever such a person is called on their bullshit?


I thought that the "do as I say, not as I do" card comes into play at these junctures....   
But, maybe that is side "B" of the "we are not perfect" card.....
Hhhhmmmmm.....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #8513105 -

I guess that would depend on how they define "the path".

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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: Boots]
    #8513664 -

Quote:
Can one be considered living the 'service-to-others' philosophy without making good on personal obligations and commitments?


If you analyze someone who lives some lifestyle and hold them to their faults then they will analyze your faults in return... how well do you compare to the ideal human being who follows whatever philosophy you seem to follow?

Quote:
...whenever such a person is called on their bullshit?


Why are people calling on other people's bullshit? Is it worth it?

I think its best to just smile and say yes.

Edited by dirtydirt (06/12/08 01:58 AM)

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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: dirtydirt]
    #8513726 -

Quote:
Why are people calling on other people's bullshit?


I am not talking of picayune fault-finding, but of people breaking commitments, lying and stealing while putting on a pious front to others.


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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8513816 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
and still be a conscious liar and a cheat? Can one be considered living the 'service-to-others' philosophy without making good on personal obligations and commitments?

Or are they merely deceiving themselves and playing pretend spiritual devotee?

Is it OK to play the 'we are not perfect' card whenever such a person is called on their bullshit?


Anyone who has to manipulate to get things going their way are a contradiction to the "service-to-others". On the other hand if one sees the other as having a malicious character, what goes around comes around comes into play.

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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: Icelander]
    #8513867 -

Quote:
The answer is YES.


So merely being human is enough and one can indulge in whatever injurious/devious behaviours they choose and still claim spiritual purity.

No need to study or practice anything then?


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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8513876 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
The answer is YES.


So merely being human is enough and one can indulge in whatever injurious/devious behaviours they choose and still claim spiritual purity.

No need to study or practice anything then?


It's really up to how the mind perceives things. A person could go their whole lives thinking they are the next Deepak Chopra, but rarely want to make the sacrifices. Most of the time we just say these are delusional beings with classic personality disorder.

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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8513892 -

proclaiming?
isn't that like what you say to someone else?
personally seeking something is not the same as telling someone else you are looking for it:
when you tell someone else, it is about getting them to help find it.
this is a lazy approach - i.e.
sending someone else
or waiting till someone else puts it in wikipedia

that is a popular path indeed.
in the end it is nothing to be jealous about, some people go and some do not, if you do you do.
if you don't no biggie.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8514256 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
The answer is YES.


So merely being human is enough and one can indulge in whatever injurious/devious behaviours they choose and still claim spiritual purity.

No need to study or practice anything then?


True. Life is the study and we get to practice until we get the results we are after. No matter how ugly that looks to you.

Have you ever told a lie? Ever been less then perfect. Same for them. Humanity, if they ever progress emotionally, will do so because what we are doing isn't working. We may well be forced into it kicking and screaming. Most all of my progress has been this type.:shrug:

Finding fault is easy, finding common ground is courageous. I wish for the sake of all of us I was better at it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: Icelander]
    #8514324 -

I believe someone can be "on the path" and still have faults, such as lying or cheating. The path is a long and winding path. Sometimes we get stuck, or get lost along the path, but then we find our way again. If these faults are life long then yes, perhaps they weren't really on the path. Finding your way down the path can take a lifetime, if not even longer. Some never make it all the way, others find their own purpose in life and are content with that.

But it also doesn't really matter what others think either. Why is it any concern of yours whether someone is on the path but not devoted to it? (that was a rhetorical question, it wasn't an attack against anyone)If they aren't true to themselves then they are destined to life an unsatisfied life. It is their own problem, their own fault, and has no baring on anybody else. I've realized as of recently, that people worry too much about others and what they are doing. It doesn't matter. Do your thing and be true to yourself. If you're going to lie about being a spiritual person, and pretend to be someone you are not then you are destined to life an unfulfilled life.

Just my $.02

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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: Platinum]
    #8514326 -

)If they aren't true to themselves then they are destined to life an unsatisfied life. It is their own problem, their own fault, and has no baring on anybody else.

Exactly right IMO.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: Platinum]
    #8515143 -

Quote:
It is their own problem, their own fault, and has no baring [sic] on anybody else.


Really? A thief or a murderer has no bearing on the victim or his/her family?

A president who lies to go to war and bankrupts a nation's treasure and credibility and directly causes many tens of thousands of deaths has no bearing?

A phony televangelist who offer false hope while making millions off the gullible has no bearing?

So what DOES HAVE BEARING?


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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8515156 -

hubs.

If you need justice try another planet


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: Icelander]
    #8515174 -

According to your POV as best as I can understand it, an ignorant, undisciplined, immoral teacher has the same value to a student as a wise, disciplined, moral teacher.

It is OK to wail against adultery while banging your neighbor's wife.

It is fine to put people in jail for smoking cannabis while doing lines of cocaine.

Sorry Icemelt, but I don't see things this way. If I am in error about your POV feel free to correct me.


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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: Icelander]
    #8515190 -

Icelander said:
OrgoneConclusion said:
and still be a conscious liar and a cheat? Can one be considered living the 'service-to-others' philosophy without making good on personal obligations and commitments?

Or are they merely deceiving themselves and playing pretend spiritual devotee?

Is it OK to play the 'we are not perfect' card whenever such a person is called on their bullshit?


The answer is YES. We are all on the path of personal advancement and seeking joy and love. The fact that we often act unskillfully and don't get what we are after is par for the course. It takes lots of practice and experience to make progress for most of us. Life will use the results of our actions as a wake up call which we may be ready to heed or not at that time.


Good answer


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8515199 -

Don't fret, you and I don't agree about most things.:D


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can a person proclaim themselves to be 'on the path' [Re: Azagthoth]
    #8515234 -

Quote:
A person could go their whole lives thinking they are the next Deepak Chopra, but rarely want to make the sacrifices.


What sacrifice does it take to be a charlatan?

"Ageless Body; Timeless Mind"? :rofl2:


Chopra looks like what in the following image:



A. A 56 year-old man

B. An ageless being

C. Elton John


--------------------

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